Various Dornier Prototypes & Projects

[hesham]

Those are pre-studies of the Do X, AFAIK.

Thank you my dear Jemiba.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


From Dornier Reference Library,Flay Past,here is the Dornier Drawing or P.1575
four-engined and P.1580 eight-engined flying boat projects.

 

[Wurger]

Dornier Reference Librrary,Flay Past

Hi Hesham,


which source is this?

 

[Jemiba]

which source is this?

B. Ogden, "Flypast Reference Library",Verlag: Key, 1983 ISBN 10: 0946219052 / ISBN 13: 9780946219056
recommendable !

 

[Wurger]

Thanks !

 

[airman]

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft31365.htm also here .

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is also some ideas from Dornier;


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6568283h/f4.image

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I tried to translate this sentence on a drawing to Dornier Do 217 variant,
as I got from Google,it was a project for Do 217T,can any body confirm
on this.


Luftfahrt 12/1979

 

[hesham]

My dear Wurger,


here is the whole article from Luftfahrt,I think it was a competition and you spoke
about it before here;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12508.msg122702.html#msg122702

 

[lastdingo]

Hi,


I tried to translate this sentence on a drawing to Dornier Do 217 variant,
as I got from Google,it was a project for Do 217T,can any body confirm
on this.


Luftfahrt 12/1979

Drawing of a Dornier bomber without pressurized cabin on basis of the Do 217 with manned mountings and remote-control. Like this or similarly would the projected Do 217T (development stage as of late 1942) have looked like probably.

"dürfte" is difficult to translate, but I think I translated the meaning here.


The RC C2 position has no visible controller, and a periscope for combined B2/C2 control by one gunner isn't visible or very plausible either.
The manned D position is untypical for German bombers because of the Kampfkopf concept (=everyone in one cabin up front) and was primarily seen in heavy bombers. It extending above the fuselage means that the rational for the twin tail (field of fire for the B position) is gone, so it fits into this bomber concept even less.
About the German codes used back then for defensive gun emplacements:
A = nose, B = top C= belly D= tail, 1= most forward, 2= second from front

A manned B1 turret also fits poorly with a pressurized cabin because of leakage issues.

It looks like a not very serious concept, probably draw to show what's a not recommended option or devised by a low-level engineer who emphasized defensive armament too much. The drawing itself is apparently a mere post-WW2 reconstruction.

 

[hesham]

Very cool Lastdingo.

 

[Wurger]

Lastdingo wrote:

It looks like a not very serious concept, probably draw to show what's a not recommended option or devised by a low-level engineer who emphasized defensive armament too much. The drawing itself is apparently a mere post-WW2 reconstruction.

The legend says "state of development at the end of 1942". I tend to be very itchy when a statement like yours are filled suppositions with " looks like", "probably", "or" and "apparently". Most of us would consider this sketch to be genuine, in compliance with so many other known Dornier projects.

 

[Jemiba]

Lastdingo got it right, "... dürfte ausgesehen haben ..." means " ... probably would have looked like ..".
An indication, that it isn't an original drawing, but a kind of interpretation of other sources, I think.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a Dornier P.59,P.231/1,P.231/2,P.231/3,P.232/3 and P.256 drawings.

 

[Wurger]

Jemiba wrote:

Lastdingo got it right, "... dürfte ausgesehen haben ..." means " ... probably would have looked like ..".An indication, that it isn't an original drawing, but a kind of interpretation of other sources, I think

I`m afraid you got it wrong. "Probably would have looked..." refered to the putative Do 217T, not the concept bomber depicted. Sometimes it`s funny how german WW2 aviation brings out so many reactions... "Napkin" projects are present all over this forum, but critics go by.

 

[Jemiba]

Yes, you're right, "..probably would have looked like" really refered to the Do 217T, not explicitely to
the shown design. I was fooled by this design, which to my opinion isn't really plausible either. What
certainly would have been one of the manned turrets seems to be too far forward, where it would have
impeded the pilots station, I think. Those manned turrets had a considerable depth.
And with regards to "napkin" projects you're quite right, to my opinion, but a more than average number
of them still has "German WW II origins".

 

[J.A.W.]

Wonder if the German 'durfte' ( with umlaut, sorry) corresponds with the semi-archaic English word 'durst',
or 'dare', as looked up via Beatrix Potter usage/explanation to insistent child reader..

 

[Stargazer]

Wonder if the German 'durfte' ( with umlaut, sorry) corresponds with the semi-archaic English word 'durst',
or 'dare', as looked up via Beatrix Potter usage/explanation to insistent child reader..

There certainly is a definite correspondence (if not strict equivalence) between German and Engish modal verbs. Originally their meanings were similar, but as the languages drifted apart, they evolved somewhat differently:

mag ~ may / möchte ~might / will ~will / wurde ~would / kann ~can / könnte ~could / soll ~shall / sollte ~should / darf ~dare / dürfte ~durst

However, I shall not develop the matter further as this particular page ought to tell you a lot more than I ever could...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_verb

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Dornier project developed from Gs.I (not Gs.II),and may
be led to develop the Dornier Wal.


Flugzeug Classic 10/2007

 

[bigvlada]

Yugoslav built Dornier Do 17 at the 1938 Belgrade Fair.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the first time in my life to hear about that project,it was Dornier Do P 17-07,may be they meant
the Dornier P.17-07 became Do.17,and we know Dornier P.14 became Do.14.


http://adl-luftfahrthistorik.de/dok/Heinkel_He119.pdf

 

[Jemiba]

...may be they meant the Dornier P.17-07 became Do.17,and we know Dornier P.14 became Do.14.

Probably not, as ît is mentioned, that the request of the RLM was made in August 1935, whereas
teh Do 17 dates back to a submission from 1932 and made its maiden flight already in 1934.

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Jemiba,


that means the Do P.17-07 was something else.

 

[hesham]

the first time in my life to hear about that project,it was Dornier Do P 17-07,may be they meant
the Dornier P.17-07 became Do.17,and we know Dornier P.14 became Do.14.

http://adl-luftfahrthistorik.de/dok/Heinkel_He119.pdf

The Dornier Do P.17-07 was a high-speed bomber project,may be for a competition in 1936,
but what was it ?.

 

[hesham]

From Jet & Prop 4/1994,


here is a drawing to Dornier Do.18 second model.

 

[toura]

Hi all

From "Docavia. les avions Dornier"

Do you know more of this studie from Dornier

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Toura.

 

[hesham]

From Jet & Prop 1/2008,


here is the Model for Dornier Wal landplane version.

 

[Wurger]

Toura wrote:

"From "Docavia. les avions Dornier"

Do you know more of this studie from Dornier".

I believe the author is wrong when it says "Nommé Do 217, le nouvel appareil est, dans un premier temps, conçu avec une tourelle de queu jumelée..." It is not an early Do 217 draft, I would place it somewhere in 1943. The gun turrets present (HD 151 Z and HL 151 Z) both stemm from that year. My best bet: a twin finned Do 417.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a drawings to Do.215 variants;


http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/d/Dornier/Do%20215/Do%20215%20Baubeschreibung%201939.pdf

 

[Jemiba]

Perhaps we should stay with projects, or at least prototypes here. Of the Do 215, originally
intended as an export version of the Do 17Z fitted with DB 601 inline engines, around 100
examples were used by the Luftwaffe, apart from a handful, which were actuallyused by
foreign customers.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is unknown design for Dornier,shows a mother ship plane with a two parasite
aircraft.


Flugsport 1932

 

[Wurger]

Hi Hesham, can you develop more on this article?

 

[Jemiba]

The German translation for the english word "patent" is ... "Patent". That makes it
relatively easy to guess, that this isn't a project, but a patent.
And the text says, that it shows a method to increase power for large multi-engine aircraft with
high wing loading by adding detachable engines, which should be fitted with at least rudimentary
wings and control surfaces to allow them to reach the ground after being jettisoned.
So, no parasite aircraft and no project, just an idea, that to my knowledge wasn't pursued in
this form.

That site is a great find, many thanks for sharing it, hesham !
But even the German language has changed somewhat during the last 100 years and patent
descriptions aren't always amongst the easiest stuff to read and maybe translate via an online
translator. I would recommend this thread here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23344.msg236850.html#msg236850

.. and maybe that one, too http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5497.msg245657.html#msg245657 !

 

[hesham]

Hi,


from the book; Bernard & Graefe Verlag, Vom Original Zum Modell; Dornier Do X,
here is the original projects and aircraft,which led to Dornier Do X,they are; P.1769,
P.1771,P.1780,P.1190,P.51223 and P.51335.


Also in the book a reference to Entwurf I,Entwurf II and P.1106

Maybe here is a clearer views with additions projects from 1918,to how the Dornier
developed the Do.X.


http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/libri/PDF_Libri_By_AVIA/DO%20X%2029.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,


also in 1945,Dornier developed an all-weather night fighter project,maybe based on
P.256 ?.

 

[hesham]

also in 1945,Dornier developed an all-weather night fighter project,maybe based on
P.256 ?.

The source;

"X-planes - German Luftwaffe Prototypes 1930-1945" by Manfred Griehl, Casemate 2012

 

[Flitzer]

Hi all.

 

[Wurger]

Hi Flitzer, welcome back!

Neat bird!!!

 

[Stargazer]

Always a pleasure to have a peek at your artwork, Flitzer!!