Unbuilt & Prototype Mirages 1955-1980

[Deltafan]

Thanks Hesham

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

April 2008 for the article on Mirage Mach 3 secret program
be Patient friends ..... ;D

 

[hesham]

Dears all,

and a very strange Mirage IIIG with swept back wing.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1965/1965%20-%201794.html?search=Mirage%20IIIG

 

[Deltafan]

April 2008 for the article on Mirage Mach 3 secret program
be Patient friends ..... ;D

We are ;D

Do you know if there is something about the M-51 jet engine project in the new book : SNECMA les moteurs du ciel ?

 

[Deltafan]

Dears all,
and a very strange Mirage IIIG with swept back wing.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1965/1965%20-%201794.html?search=Mirage%20IIIG

Thanks Hesham

I think that it's a model of the Mirage G

 

[Deltafan]

April 2008 for the article on Mirage Mach 3 secret program
be Patient friends ..... ;D

But I think suddenly that sometimes the April month is not a good time for real articles (but a very good time for joke articles and to fish for poor readers) :

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

Well, let's go to april 2008 for the "big fish" ! ;D
I dont know if we have something in the M51 (and M48 and M52) in the new Snecma history. Think It will be interesting.

 

[LowObservable]

What, the Mirage of the 3 Mach, he is a fish of April? [Inserrez ici le mot de Cambronne.]

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

It's not a december fish, or an april fish ;D
You will see how and when Dassault draw a Mach3/Mach4 fighter projects

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Mirage projects;

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1976/1976%20-%200126.html?search=straight%20wing%20aircraft%20project

 

[Deltafan]

Thanks for this article Hesham

 

[Jemiba]

Hesham, you've really earned the title "Master Detective of the Flight Archive, first class"
Great find !

 

[LowObservable]

Those were pretty much speculative. Flight was in a panic because it was thought that AvWeek had been given the big exclusive on the M2000, so everything that could be thrown together, was.

All AvWeek had was an ad supplement. Duff info from a prat of an ad salesman.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes, not a bad read but the picture of the "Mirage 2000" seems just speculation.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears,

and please notice the change in air intakes to some designs.

 

[frank]

Do you suppose Boeing's good consideration was tied to France buying Boeing tankers?

Mirage IIIW was to be a licence build Boeing variant to compete with the F-5A/E on export markets.

I didn't knew about this variant. Boeing first thought to enter USAF's LFW competition (won by the GD F-16) was a Mirage F-1 with US avionics/weapons and J-79 Engine. It seems that Boeing had Dassault's Fighters in good consideration.

 

[frank]

I have nothing to do with SharKit, but FYI...............
http://renax.club.fr/sharkit/MD750/MD7500.htm

Ok, I have some questions for them (I'll try Mirage G4, Mirage 3000, MegaMirage and the like.)
Pometablava I really want to see this famous Aviation Magazine article. Could you send me a copy of it ? (don't know if I asked you that before... I have doubts...)
Here's the plan : I asked Luc Berger (the responsible of Dassault passion) about the Mirage G4 and the single-seat F3. I'll wait his answer before sending him another mail about the MegaMirage (this week...)
Waiting for that I post the MegaMirage here... mysterious drawing...
Short resume of what we know about this project
- Aviation magazine, june 1969
- a model showed at Le Bourget airshow, 1969
- mach 3 with two M53 engines.
- mention of the plane in Le Fana de l'Aviation, July 2004 (ACF)
- Air enthusiast article (Tony Buttler)
- the 3-view is available in the Whatif modelers forum, Secret projects, Key publishing AF...

 

[Archibald]

Time to bring this old thing back to life.

Browsing flight global archive I've found a snippet of information about the Mirage 50 http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1976/1976%20-%202790.html

Looks like Dassault proposed a M53 powered Mirage 50 back in 1973-74. And no, that's not the Mirage 2000. The latter is mentionned earlier in the article.

That's bring some interesting conclusions

- The M53 was built from the start to fit within Atar 9K50 shoes, so that every Atar-Mirage was able to "swallow" a M53. I knew the F1E had the said upgrade; but the Mirage 50 is even more interesting

Indeed

- If the Mirage 50 can "swallow" a M53, why not the Mirage IV ?

Sometimes I feel that a M53 upgrade was considered for the Mirage IVP (the 18 Mirage IVAs upgraded with ASMP from 1978)... the M53 is not much bigger than the Spey, proposed for the Mirage IV K* in 1965.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi Archie

Interesting. I didn't know this Mirage 50 project with M-53.

But i red (i don't remember where) that if the M-53 was foreseen to be as big as the 9K50, actually it had a (little) bigger diameter and that the change would not have been easy (The F-1E has not exactly the same fuselage as the F-1C).

This Mirage 50 M-53 could have been relatively similar to the Kfir C-2.
And for export it should have been certainly better than the 50 and the F-1 and cheaper than the 2000.

 

[Matej]

With 8+ GB of photos? I think so

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

Come back from Snecma and armée de l'Air archives

Found somme new information on Snecma projects (M67, M69...) and good documentation on AFVG program (british and French papers, most "secret" and never seen).

Well, see you in Le Fana in 2010 ! ;D

 

[Antonio]

I'll be waiting! ;D

 

[vajt]

Found the same photo on my HD, designated "ACX" and a model photo of
the ACX (sorry, source isn't clear)

This would have been a nice one...

-----JT-----

 

[prolific1]

I have a MegaMirage profile in the works.

 

[Stargazer]

Come back from Snecma and armée de l'Air archives

Found somme new information on Snecma projects (M67, M69...) and good documentation on AFVG program (british and French papers, most "secret" and never seen).

Well, see you in Le Fana in 2010 ! ;D

Sounds like good news!!!

 

[Michel Van]

Again many thanks for picture, Justo

like on Dassault Balzac V http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10281.0.html
the Mirage III-V had same problem: the lift engine were death weight during flight.

sadly Dassault had good concept with MD-610 Cavalier using a Pegasus BE-53 engine.

but in time France had threaten Great Britian Labor government with lawsuit
in order to save Concorde program...

 

[Jemiba]

Not only Dassault, but Nord Aviation, too, had developed designs, which used vectored
thrust. The N.4210 with the Pegasus and the N.4400 with the BS.100.
And the pure vectored thrust effort was seen by many, as requiring an unneccessarily
powerful (and thus heavy) engine, whereas lightweight lift engines would improve the
power/weight ratio for cruising flight. But I agree, the strict separation of lift and cruise
engines is the other extreme !

 

[LowObservable]

I like the four sets of engine instruments. I wonder if each had two needles?

 

[Triton]

Genuine desk model of Dassault MD 750 Mirage Mach III.

Source:
http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/MD750/MD7500.htm

 

[hesham]

The Mirage F-2 model.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1965/1965%20-%201793.html

[Removed attachment - poor quality picture of a model of an aircraft which actually flew. - Admin]

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an interesting "family tree" diagram of all Mirage jet fighter variants up to 1966. It is part of a much larger article on then current Mirage versions and planned Mirage "projects". Most of the variants are real, built aircraft which aren't "projects" and really don't belong here in this desperately disparate and generic topic; however, I couldn't find another suitable topic in which to place such a diagram......

The diagram comes from the 15th December 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International, but the layout artist must have been having a bad day that day as nothing is square and nothing lines up properly......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[foiling]

Very nice Mirage family tree, Caravellarella; any chance of a larger/clearer image?

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice Mirage family tree, Caravellarella; any chance of a larger/clearer image?

I agree. Make it only larger, Terry, if you please, and I'll see if I can clean it up/enhance it a bit...

 

[Caravellarella]

Very nice Mirage family tree, Caravellarella; any chance of a larger/clearer image?

I agree. Make it only larger, Terry, if you please, and I'll see if I can clean it up/enhance it a bit...

Here it is, larger. Please bear in mind that the original is not the best laid out diagram, and Aviation Magazine International was printed on 236mm x 301mm (which is larger than A4) so it's often a struggle to get all the contents of each page in without cutting & pasting......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Grey Havoc]

Thanks for the hard work!

 

[Caravellarella]

Here is a cleaned-up/enhanced version. I will try and improve it some more tonight.

Stéphane - you're a magician! ;D

 

[AeroFranz]

Very nice work. Thanks for cleaning it up

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Let me try...

 

[Caravellarella]

Would it help if I scanned the whole article?

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[foiling]

Wow, well done guys you've done an exccelent job. A family tree anyone would be proud to call their own. ;-)