Ukrainian Conflict NEWS ONLY !!!!

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NeilChapman said:
lancer21 said:
I saw claims this is fake news, all the claimed "donors" Bulgaria, Slovakia and even Poland refute any such thing apparently. Wouldn't be surprised.
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Perhaps, but here is a lead up story from yesterday. If Bulgaria and Slovakia are not willing it seems highly likely the Polish government is on board.


www.wsj.com

EU Member Countries in Talks to Supply Ukraine With Jet Fighters

BRUSSELS—Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has asked the European Union for jet fighters, and some EU countries plan to supply them, EU foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell said Sunday. A person familiar with the talks later said that discussions are still continuing. The person said any plane
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1498336563389947910
View: https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1498336563389947910?s=20&t=-kOPscEQDoiHl4MmOLREaQ


It's very likely a puff piece. The only people saying Ukraine is getting fighter jets is Ukraine at the moment.
 
Kat Tsun said:
NeilChapman said:
lancer21 said:
I saw claims this is fake news, all the claimed "donors" Bulgaria, Slovakia and even Poland refute any such thing apparently. Wouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but here is a lead up story from yesterday. If Bulgaria and Slovakia are not willing it seems highly likely the Polish government is on board.


www.wsj.com

EU Member Countries in Talks to Supply Ukraine With Jet Fighters

BRUSSELS—Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has asked the European Union for jet fighters, and some EU countries plan to supply them, EU foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell said Sunday. A person familiar with the talks later said that discussions are still continuing. The person said any plane
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1498336563389947910
View: https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1498336563389947910?s=20&t=-kOPscEQDoiHl4MmOLREaQ


It's very likely a puff piece. The only people saying Ukraine is getting fighter jets is Ukraine at the moment.
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Decision - 2022/338 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu eur-lex.europa.eu

"To achieve the objective set out in paragraph 2, the Assistance Measure shall finance the provision of military equipment, and platforms, designed to deliver lethal force to the Ukrainian Armed Forces."

"The Member States shall permit the transit of military equipment, including accompanying personnel, through their territories, including their airspace."


'Platforms' is of course open for interpretation.
 
They've been provisioning platforms (Stinger pedestal launchers) and military equipment (helmets) designed to deliver lethal force (ATGW) to Ukraine for the past week. Few NATO countries have sufficient working aircraft to police their own skies, and those that do do not exist in Eastern Europe, TBH.

Ukraine might receive some trucks or something but I don't see anyone delivering anything heavy like fighter jets for a long while unless America starts giving Poland free F-35s to replace the MiG-29s of 1.ELT. Those Fulcrums need to last until 2025 when Polish F-35A orders are fulfilled and the 1.ELT is trained to operate JSFs.

It appears to have been an overly enthusiastic comment by Borrell being taken too seriously by Ukrainian defense ministry though.
 
paralay said:
In the near future, supplies of lethal weapons to the remnants of the Ukrainian army will be destroyed immediately after crossing the border

Moderator, why are you deleting posts about the crimes of the Ukrainian military? Are you an accomplice?
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I have deleted very few messages and not blocked pro-Russian posters. I removed a message you posted referring to a deranged conspiracy theory. If you want to participate in the topic try to stick to more factual topics.
 
Rivet Joint and EC
Dreamfighter said:
NeilChapman said:
lancer21 said:
I saw claims this is fake news, all the claimed "donors" Bulgaria, Slovakia and even Poland refute any such thing apparently. Wouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but here is a lead up story from yesterday. If Bulgaria and Slovakia are not willing it seems highly likely the Polish government is on board.


www.wsj.com

EU Member Countries in Talks to Supply Ukraine With Jet Fighters

BRUSSELS—Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has asked the European Union for jet fighters, and some EU countries plan to supply them, EU foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell said Sunday. A person familiar with the talks later said that discussions are still continuing. The person said any plane
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
Click to expand...

www.airforcemag.com

Pentagon: Russia Aims to Cut Off Eastern Ukraine, EU Offers Fighter Jets | Air & Space Forces Magazine

DOD outlined a perceived Russian strategy to encircle Kyiv and cut off the eastern half the country as the EU commits to provide combat jets to Ukraine.
www.airforcemag.com www.airforcemag.com
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From the article you posted Dreamfighter...

'Meanwhile, U.S. ground and airborne defense assistance has arrived to Ukrainian fighters “in just the last day or so,”
'

It seems part of that airborne defense assistance are E-3 and Rivet Joint aircraft flying near the Ukrainian border this morning.
 

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I would note that the Ukrainians are also most likely engaged in deception and propaganda. This is to be expected - they are fighting for their lives, and to get help from democracies, you need to sway public opinion in those democracies to put pressure on their governments. Likewise, morale is very important in warfare. It's therefore important to treat all information critically.
 
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NeilChapman said:
Rivet Joint and EC
Dreamfighter said:
NeilChapman said:
lancer21 said:
I saw claims this is fake news, all the claimed "donors" Bulgaria, Slovakia and even Poland refute any such thing apparently. Wouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but here is a lead up story from yesterday. If Bulgaria and Slovakia are not willing it seems highly likely the Polish government is on board.


www.wsj.com

EU Member Countries in Talks to Supply Ukraine With Jet Fighters

BRUSSELS—Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has asked the European Union for jet fighters, and some EU countries plan to supply them, EU foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell said Sunday. A person familiar with the talks later said that discussions are still continuing. The person said any plane
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
Click to expand...

www.airforcemag.com

Pentagon: Russia Aims to Cut Off Eastern Ukraine, EU Offers Fighter Jets | Air & Space Forces Magazine

DOD outlined a perceived Russian strategy to encircle Kyiv and cut off the eastern half the country as the EU commits to provide combat jets to Ukraine.
www.airforcemag.com www.airforcemag.com
Click to expand...
From the article you posted Dreamfighter...

'Meanwhile, U.S. ground and airborne defense assistance has arrived to Ukrainian fighters “in just the last day or so,”
'

It seems part of that airborne defense assistance are E-3 and Rivet Joint aircraft flying near the Ukrainian border this morning.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I noticed the 'airborne defense assistance' part too, but I forgot to mention it here. (My attention drifted a bit away by a Collins´ advertisement on the AFM site)


Just for the records, here the transcript of what Borrell exactly said:

"Q. You mentioned the military material to be sent to Ukraine in the value of several hundreds of millions of euros. How do you envision to get this material into Ukraine? Are you not afraid that the moment it crosses the border it will be attacked by the Russians? The second question is about the ban of Russia Today and Sputnik. How exactly are you going to keep them from broadcasting into Europe, because what is going to keep them from disseminating their stuff from servers located in Russia into the European Union?"

"We are preparing the measures necessary to prevent the dissemination of this media in the European union. We have technical ways of doing that.
We are going to supply arms and even fighter jets. We are not talking just about ammunition; we are providing the most important arms to go to war. Minister Kuleba has been asking us that they need the type of fighter jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate. We know what kind of planes and some Member States have these kinds of planes."

eeas.europa.eu

Informal videoconference of Foreign Affairs Ministers: Remarks by High Representative/Vice-President Josep Borrell at the press conference

Check against delivery! Thank you to all of you for attending this press conference after the fourth meeting of the [EU] Foreign Affairs Ministers in a week. Everybody perceives that we are in unprecedented times, that we are living a historic moment. And I know that the word “historic” is...
eeas.europa.eu eeas.europa.eu

I´m not sure at all about what EU member-states are obliged to do with regard to the EPF (European Peace Facility) decision which went into legislation yesterday, but I assume the countries who have the equipment which was asked for can always say 'Yes, of course' or 'No, absolutely not' or e.g. 'Really sorry, but it´s impossible to get those MiG-29s combat-ready ever again.' (or maybe 'Okay, we´ll sneak them across the border but make sure not to tell anyone.' ? )
 
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Evidently Ukraine has dozens of TB2s? From the article...

"The Ukrainian army already has dozens of Baykar-developed Bayraktar TB2 unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) in its inventory."

From what I've read they acquired 18 and production rights but each TB2 comes with three airframes.

Seems to be quite an effective bit of kit.

www.dailysabah.com

Turkey-made drones helping fight against Russia: Ukrainian envoy

Turkey-made Bayraktar drones have been very efficient in Ukraine’s battle against invading Russian forces, Kyiv’s ambassador to Ankara, Vasyl Bodnar,...
www.dailysabah.com www.dailysabah.com
 
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NeilChapman said:
Evidently Ukraine has dozens of TB2s? From the article...

"The Ukrainian army already has dozens of Baykar-developed Bayraktar TB2 unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) in its inventory."

From what I've read they acquired 18 and production rights but each TB2 comes with three airframes.

Seems to be quite an effective bit of kit.

www.dailysabah.com

Turkey-made drones helping fight against Russia: Ukrainian envoy

Turkey-made Bayraktar drones have been very efficient in Ukraine’s battle against invading Russian forces, Kyiv’s ambassador to Ankara, Vasyl Bodnar,...
www.dailysabah.com www.dailysabah.com
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Officially Ukraine received 12 TB2 aerial platforms, 6 Airforce and 6 for Navy. Ukraine also decided to purchase additional Ground Control, Relay Stations and also E/O spares.
24 TB2 aerial platforms with local manufacturing were in the works, assembly facility was being built and near completion in Ukraine before the war broke out - current condition is unknown and likely won't be operational anytime soon.

We've seen Turkish A400M transport planes fly in to Ukraine and Poland, could have been anything within them but also good chance of additional TB2, munitions for them or humanitarian aid.
 
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www.telegraph.co.uk

Russian convoy outside Kyiv may be 40 miles long

Satellite images taken on Monday show a Russian military convoy north of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv that may stretch for about 40 miles (64km), substantially longer than the 17 miles reported earlier in the day.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

apnews.com

Reading Putin: Unbalanced or cagily preying on West's fears?

Vladimir Putin is raising fears that he has become more reckless, more committed to restoring the USSR, perhaps more likely to set off a world-altering war.
apnews.com apnews.com

 
Grey Havoc said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Russian convoy outside Kyiv may be 40 miles long

Satellite images taken on Monday show a Russian military convoy north of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv that may stretch for about 40 miles (64km), substantially longer than the 17 miles reported earlier in the day.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

apnews.com

Reading Putin: Unbalanced or cagily preying on West's fears?

Vladimir Putin is raising fears that he has become more reckless, more committed to restoring the USSR, perhaps more likely to set off a world-altering war.
apnews.com apnews.com

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Does that then mean that NATO is doing well under Russian leadership?
 
phantonphan said:
Does that then mean that NATO is doing well under Russian leadership?
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It's funny* cos it's true? Sweden and Switzerland temporarily discarding neutrality, Finland actually considering joining NATO and a Japanese elder-statesman even contemplating a nuclear deterrent! The domino theory was right, just not the way anyone imagined!

Russian foreign policy is a spectacular failure and the masses are speaking!

(*Rest assured no-one is actually laughing in this household!)
 
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The NBC-page that timesofisrael.com links to as a source:
www.nbcnews.com

Frustrated Putin may order escalation of violence in Ukraine, U.S. officials say

The U.S. has solid intelligence that Putin is directing unusual bursts of anger at people in his inner circle over the state of the military campaign, officials said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
Western intelligence agencies have good visibility into Putin right now and are closely watching his moves for any significant behavioral changes, several current and former officials said.
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sublight is back said:
www.thelocal.fr

French finance minister: We will bring about collapse of the Russian economy

The French finance minister has warned
www.thelocal.fr www.thelocal.fr
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Folks get very excited about seizing (then guiding through the system to purchase it for themselves or buddies) the very expensive toys that, ostensibly, belong to other people. Especially when it looks like there will be no way for them to get it back. It's a free for all for yachts, cars, condos, homes, art, jewelry, and any other personal property they can seize.
 
I'm not sure that Western media is getting through to Russia and the EU are taking steps to sever news sources from Russia.
Rather than bringing the world together digital media is largely making giant echo chambers.

NATO has clearly stated it's not getting involved (even as recent as an hour ago), Poland and Bulgaria etc. have denied any interest in supplying aircraft. It is rumoured this afternoon that the Ukraine is talking to NATO about aerial defence but likely will be cold shouldered. Maybe if the UN wanted to intervene and set up a no fly zone with non-European/NATO neutral fighters (who would volunteer?) that could be one option but would likely take weeks to set up.

I'm surprised at the groundswell of opinion on British media BTL comments, a lot of people saying more should be done and NATO should chance its arm. Paralay's comment is not much more bloodthirsty than someone sitting in Basingstoke saying NATO should swat that traffic jam without fully realising the implications of what they are saying.


As to sanctions, even the SWIFT ban can be circumvented. https://theconversation.com/swift-ejecting-russia-is-largely-symbolic-heres-why-178065
 
From the BBC today:

At a further news conference with the Estonian prime minister and the Nato secretary-general in the Estonian capital Tallinn, Mr Johnson said the international community must do everything it can to support Ukrainians, but said "we will not fight Russian forces in Ukraine".
He said the UK was not actively supporting its citizens to volunteer to fight for Ukraine and ruled out a no-fly zone over the country. Ukraine has called for help to enforce a no-fly zone in its skies in a bid to protect civilians.
The Russian army continues its advance on Kyiv, with satellite images spotting an armoured convoy about 40 miles long.

_________________________________________________________________

So, how many vehicles need to be involved to create a convoy about 40 miles long?
 
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