Ukrainian Air Force F-16

Grey Havoc said:
It's quite possible that the Russians have found some way to fox the system, and trick it into believing friendly aircraft are enemy targets, and via versa.
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It seemingly happened in western Ukraine.
It's just too far from Russia.
 
Ainen said:
It seemingly happened in western Ukraine.
It's just too far from Russia.
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Not for things like logic bombs and waveform agents. Some of the attacking drones could have even been vectors for such an attack. Deception ECM and Information Warfare (more commonly known as Cyber warfare) comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes.
 
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Ainen said:
It seemingly happened in western Ukraine.
It's just too far from Russia.
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Not if the drones themselves were the ones conducting the EW. But then it was put down to 'a lack of coordination' so that could just mean the air force didn't give the SAM operators the IFF frequency, which could be why the air force commander has been fired.
 
Forest Green said:
Not if the drones themselves were the ones conducting the EW. But then it was put down to 'a lack of coordination' so that could just mean the air force didn't give the SAM operators the IFF frequency, which could be why the air force commander has been fired.
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Translation: someone fucked up by not doing their job properly in coordinating things between SAM system operators and the F-16 pilots.
 
Flyaway said:
Yeah that’s puzzling as they are both US systems.
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Patriot missiles also accidentally shot down F-16 and allied assets during the Gulf War. Many F-16 pilots feared friendly fire more than Sadam’s surface to air assets. IFF could reduce friendly fire incidents but not remove them all together.
 
NMaude said:
This IVEWS would be very useful for Ukrainian F-16s.
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Not sure if the A/Bs could hold a jammer internally?
The base of the C/D models vertical tail is much broader as it was to hold the ALQ-165 ASPJ (Which was partially cancelled)
1725591748236.png

General Dynamics F-16

Find here how to recognise a Dassault Mercure jet airliner.
www.aircraftrecognitionguide.com www.aircraftrecognitionguide.com
 
yahya said:
breakingdefense.com

Ukraine’s lost F-16: Debris and a deadly mission - Breaking Defense

Some details of the F-16 downing have come out, and sources have helped fill in some gaps for Breaking Defense, including around the theory that the loss was the result of shrapnel that hit the plane.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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So it would appear that the F-16 either got too close to a Russian cruise-missile it shutdown and was downed by the resulting shrapnel by flying into it or it was an "Own Goal" shoot-down by a PAC2/3 due to improper use of IFF.
 
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Thank you to the Admins for concatenning all those posts inside a new thread

May I suggest to (or to be ready to) rename this thread: Western Mustangs of the Ukrainian Air Force (or similar) since the M2K are coming...
 
TomcatViP said:
Thank you to the Admins for concatenning all those posts inside a new thread

May I suggest to (or to be ready to) rename this thread: Western Mustangs of the Ukrainian Air Force (or similar) since the M2K are coming...
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Yep, plus gripen(with some work done even) and even eurofighter in sights.
The latter seems especially interesting - in retrospect, Ukrainian problem isn't money per se, it's training bottlenecks.

As unsuitable ef-2000 as it is(IMHO, at least - even tf.1 will be the most capable fighter proposed) - it is ultimately an established training process, with countries willing to risk their personel at least in the rear (UK), and one not too overloaded with exports.
 
TomcatViP said:
Thank you to the Admins for concatenning all those posts inside a new thread

May I suggest to (or to be ready to) rename this thread: Western Mustangs of the Ukrainian Air Force (or similar) since the M2K are coming...
Click to expand...
OK, no problem, for me. It could be modified whenever needed

It would be interesting to include "Ukrainian" "F-16" "Mirage 2000" and "Grippen" in order to work as "tags" for always getting the most accurate results from the search engine.
 
TomcatViP said:
May I suggest to (or to be ready to) rename this thread: Western Mustangs of the Ukrainian Air Force (or similar) since the M2K are coming...
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Seconded!

Antonio said:
OK, no problem, for me. It could be modified whenever needed

It would be interesting to include "Ukrainian" "F-16" "Mirage 2000" and "Grippen" in order to work as "tags" for always getting the most accurate results from the search engine.
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I've seen a few threads with a crapton of tags/keywords, I'm just not sure how well making changes after creating the thread works on the software.
 
Antonio said:
OK, no problem, for me. It could be modified whenever needed

It would be interesting to include "Ukrainian" "F-16" "Mirage 2000" and "Grippen" in order to work as "tags" for always getting the most accurate results from the search engine.
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The SAAB JAS39 Gripen is spelled with only one "P".
 
Has there been any news about when the next batch of donated F-16s are arriving in Ukraine and from which airforce they are from?
 
snne said:
"F-16 killing the Su-34" is at this point just your speculation, no?
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It's Russian telegram channels reporting that it was shot down by an F-16 if you listen to the video. Of course that telegram could have been posted by a worried Russian SAM operator who'd like to apportion blame elsewhere.

www.forbes.com

Milbloggers Claiming Ukrainian F-16 Downed Russian Su-34 Aircraft

Pro-Moscow Telegram channels have also provided additional details, claiming the aircraft was shot down approximately 50 km (30 miles) from the front lines
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

According to a popular Telegram channel reported to be run by a former Russian military aviator, a Russian Aerospace Force's Sukhoi Su-34 (NATO reporting name Fullback) fighter-bomber aircraft was shot down on Saturday over Ukraine.
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The Fighterbomber channel shared an apparent tribute to the downed Su-34 with a black and white photo of the multirole aircraft and the caption "The earth is the sky, brothers."
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However, considering the Su-34 is primarily a bomber, an apt comparison for "F-16 kills Su-34" would be "F-4 kills F-111".

Yes, the Su-34 has about as much air-air capability (compared to Russia's actual fighters) as the F-111 did (production versions, not counting the cancelled F-111B US Navy version).
 
BlackBat242 said:
However, considering the Su-34 is primarily a bomber, an apt comparison for "F-16 kills Su-34" would be "F-4 kills F-111".

Yes, the Su-34 has about as much air-air capability (compared to Russia's actual fighters) as the F-111 did (production versions, not counting the cancelled F-111B US Navy version).
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Would disagree with that. It can carry R-77s and has a radar for using them, the F-111 only carried sidewinders.
 
Ronny said:
Because it is a waste, F-16AM with APG-66v2 and AIM-120B won't be a match against Su-35S and Mig-31 with R-37 + A-50 support

I honestly think they will be fish a barrel, APG-66 is ancient compared to Irbis-E, much much shorter detection range.
AIM-120B is ancient compared to R-37
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Russians shot sometimess several R-37 missiles a day at ukrainian aircrafts, yet still no confirmed kills. I think this missiles are efficient only at big non manoeuvrable tankers or airborne radar aircrafts.

www.forbes.com

Fly Low, Get Aggressive—How Ukrainian Pilots Fought The Russian Air Force To A Standstill

Ukrainian pilots in their older, cruder jets fought Russian pilots to a standstill in the early weeks of Russia’s wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
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Wotan said:
Russians shot sometimess several R-37 missiles a day at ukrainian aircrafts, yet still no confirmed kills. I think this missiles are efficient only at big non manoeuvrable tankers or airborne radar aircrafts.

www.forbes.com

Fly Low, Get Aggressive—How Ukrainian Pilots Fought The Russian Air Force To A Standstill

Ukrainian pilots in their older, cruder jets fought Russian pilots to a standstill in the early weeks of Russia’s wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Timely turn-away and defensive maneuvering do wonders in air combat, but it does so at the cost of the mission abort. It isn't about the maneuverability of a weapon, it's about general advantage of air-breathing planes over rockets if they turn away in time.

And while it's an expensive way to abort the air mission - such suppression means that UAF can't attack targets when it needs to, but only when it gets an operational window to (CAP change for example). It also limits its ability to deliver payloads to a very low floor, and it cancels its ability to interfere with VKS bombing (though r-77-1s were good enough for this due to a consistent Ru altitude advantage).

Also, R-37Ms have plenty of confirmed kills. Frankly speaking, for almost two years it's the only a2a weapon in this whole war which still does.
 
Forest Green said:
Would disagree with that. It can carry R-77s and has a radar for using them, the F-111 only carried sidewinders.
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IIRC it was never seen with them operationally. Only R-27s, and in a very demonstrative context.
Self-escort capability of this bird is still speculative. But since they almost always seem to have a su-35 escort around if any threat is possible - it's doubtful they have anything.
 
Nevertheless the ability to is at least there whereas it never was with the F-111.
en.wikipedia.org

Sukhoi Su-34 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
The main radar can simultaneously track ten air targets[76] and attack four targets (in the air, on land or on the water).[63] The radius of detection for fighter-sized targets is up to 120 km, the range of the survey is +/- 60 degrees.[77]
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