Ukrainian Air Force F-16

Ozair said:
Interesting they have AIM-9M on station 8 and AIM-120 on station 9 with the Terma PIDS pylon on station 7. Was hoping the aircraft would be equipped with AIM-9X from the start.
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Better to use up the AIM-9Ms from aircraft.

They're not bad missiles, just not as good as AIM9X. and the -Ms are free.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Better to use up the AIM-9Ms from aircraft.

They're not bad missiles, just not as good as AIM9X. and the -Ms are free.
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They would be perfectly adequate for shooting down Russian cruise-missiles and Shaheed-136 drones but I'm not sure if they have the performance to successfully intercept an AS-24 Killjoy or an SS-26 Stone.
 
According to Alex Collings from Sandboxx Ukraine's F-16s have officially entered the war after Russia's mass missile and drone raid on Ukraine:


Amid what's being described as the largest air attack Russia has launched thus far in the war, Ukrainian F-16s successfully shot down multiple cruise missiles in their first combat operations disclosed to date.
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Please, let's stay with the technical side, as the title says. All other themes will sooner or later drift into politics...
 
Now that the first six F-16s have arrived in Ukraine and have already performed one combat-mission so far I wonder how long it will be before the Ukrainians will develop an air-launched version of their highly successful R-360 Neptune anti-ship missile* to be carried by their new F-16s?

* The Ukrainians appear to be going the SLAM/SLAM-ER route with the Neptune.
 
NMaude said:
Now that the first six F-16s have arrived in Ukraine and have already performed one combat-mission so far I wonder how long it will be before the Ukrainians will develop an air-launched version of their highly successful R-360 Neptune anti-ship missile* to be carried by their new F-16s?

* The Ukrainians appear to be going the SLAM/SLAM-ER route with the Neptune.
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It'd be a lot of work to get the Neptune to talk to the 1760 data bus. Though if any of the UkrAF planes were refitted with the 1760 data bus before the war it'd be a lot easier.

Assuming that no old hardware has the 1760 bus, I'd expect the Neptunes to stay as Fulcrum-Flanker weapons until the war is over or the UkrAF has no Soviet hardware left in service.
 
Scott Kenny said:
It'd be a lot of work to get the Neptune to talk to the 1760 data bus.
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Good point!

Scott Kenny said:
Though if any of the UkrAF planes were refitted with the 1760 data bus before the war it'd be a lot easier.
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What could be done would be for an adaptor pylon to be created (A bit like the one used to enable Ukrainian MiG-29s and Su-27s to launch and fire the AGM-88) to act as an electronic-interface between the F-16 and the Neptune.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yeah, that might work.
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Longer term the Ukrainians will no doubt make a version of the R-360 that is compatible with the Mil-Std-1760 interface. Something that needs to be kept in mind is that before the collapse of the USSR Ukraine was the missile design and manufacturing hub of the Soviet Union so they have a LOT of the needed technical expertise.
 
NMaude said:
Longer term the Ukrainians will no doubt make a version of the R-360 that is compatible with the Mil-Std-1760 interface. Something that needs to be kept in mind is that before the collapse of the USSR Ukraine was the missile design and manufacturing hub of the Soviet Union so they have a LOT of the needed technical expertise.
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I think Ukraine is doing a great job but the fall of the Soviet Union was 33 years ago. I don't think it can be considered a centre of excellence for missile design today. Now drone design, that is where Ukraine experience is relevant and valuable.
 
Ozair said:
I think Ukraine is doing a great job but the fall of the Soviet Union was 33 years ago.
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I'm aware of that but I'd doubt they'd let things slide.

Ozair said:
I don't think it can be considered a centre of excellence for missile design today.
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That's questionable as I think they will have worked to try and keep current, the R-360 Neptune for example has worked very well but what has to be kept in mind is that Ukraine's manufacturing infrastructure has been under regular Russian missile and drone attacks. So any missile developments that Ukraine has been doing would be kept quiet while design and testing is underway, there's that test of a Ukrainian ballistic-missile the other day for example.

Ozair said:
Now drone design, that is where Ukraine experience is relevant and valuable.
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Definitely.

Thing that has to be kept in mind is now that Ukraine has the F-16 in service it now has access to a very wide range of western air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons that the F-16 can carry.

Edit: In regards to the AIM-9X (Of which I have no doubt Ukraine will be getting in the near future) I wonder if the F-16/AIM-9X combination has the needed performance to intercept an AS-24 Killjoy ALBM?
 
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That's unfortunate news about the F-16 but not surprising given that it's a new jet for the Ukrainian airforce and that it's being flown under combat conditions.

On another note Millennium 7* Historytech has a new video about the Ukrainian F-16s:


The F-16s took forever but they finally arrived in Ukraine. Let's see what are they going to be used for.
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NMaude said:
That's unfortunate news about the F-16 but not surprising given that it's a new jet for the Ukrainian airforce and that it's being flown under combat conditions.

On another note Millennium 7* Historytech has a new video about the Ukrainian F-16s:

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I remember reading Iraqi pilots, some with hundreds of hours really struggling to adjust to the F-16.
 
Ukrainian MP Maryana Bezuhla argued that (quotation): "the F-16 of Ukrainian pilot Alexey "Moonfish" Mesya was shot down by a Patriot anti-aircraft missile system due to discoordination between units." The incident occurred during one of the most powerful Russian air attacks on August 26, 2024.

Sources:


tsn.ua

Безугла озвучила свою версію катастрофи з F-16

Нардепка Мар'яна Безугла вважає, що винищувач F-16 під час масованої російської ракетної атаки був збитий своїм ЗРК Patriot. Подробиці читайте ᐅ новини 1+1
tsn.ua tsn.ua

If Bezuhla's assessment is factual, would it mean that there were issues in the IFF systems provided along with Western munitions?
 
TomcatViP said:
Guys, do not forget that these Drones and cruise missiles fly low and, for the latter, fast. Intercepting them is a dangerous missions already.

Very sad to hear the loss of the pilot.
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Yep, USNG upgraded their f-16s to V standard specifically for this very target set.
Whatever it is, the more I see Russian and now Ukrainian struggles, the more I consider extensive GBADs a hinderance on path of a solution.

They're good for clogging airspace (Ukraine - first ever true positional stalemate in air, lol). But for fearless one-way munitions, they will always leak, preventing friendly fighters from doing the job at the same time.
 
aonestudio said:
www.aljazeera.com

Ukraine says US-made F-16 fighter jet crashed, killing pilot

The crash is the first involving in an F-16 since they began arriving in Ukraine late last month.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
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Even the most experienced pilots make errors so you can't just rule out pilot error but I have a feeling that this was caused by the Patriot missile.

They've been exaggeratively marketing the F-16 as a Wunderwaffe that could win the war so no wonder they don't want to admit that it's just an another aircraft and that they themselves shot this Wunderwaffe down.

It's essentially the same case as the Western tanks, Ukranians have a habit of increasing expectations and turning everything into an unbeatable super weapon.

RIP...
 
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snne said:
They've been exaggeratively marketing the F-16 as a Wunderwaffe that could win the war so no wonder they don't want to admit that it's just an another aircraft and that they themselves shot this Wunderwaffe down.

It's essentially the same case as the Western tanks, Ukranians have a habit of increasing expectations and turning everything into an unbeatable super weapon.
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Bullshit / Russian disinformation.
No one with knowledge has ever said F-16s for Ukraine would be 'Wunderwaffen', on the contrary, every decent expert has stated the F-16 would be very useful for Ukraine but it certainly would not be a gamechanger.
 
snne said:
They've been exaggeratively marketing the F-16 as a Wunderwaffe that could win the war so no wonder they don't want to admit that it's just an another aircraft and that they themselves shot this Wunderwaffe down.
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There are speculation that it may actually been destroyed on ground during one of airbase strikes, and "friendly fire" explanation was invented to cover the loss... Speculations, of course, but should also be taken into account.
 
Really? I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned how this guy was involved:


iu

Usual suspect nbr 1
 
Dreamfighter said:
Bullshit / Russian disinformation.
No one with knowledge has ever said F-16s for Ukraine would be 'Wunderwaffen', on the contrary, every decent expert has stated the F-16 would be very useful for Ukraine but it certainly would not be a gamechanger.
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I don’t think any credible defense analyst made it out to be a wunderwaffen but average redditor probably thought that it was.
 
Forest Green said:
I'm surprised they weren't operating some kind of IFF system.
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It's quite possible that the Russians have found some way to fox the system, and trick it into believing friendly aircraft are enemy targets, and vice versa.
 
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