TZoli's Warship Designs

[Tzoli]

Next ship is a CLAA Version of the Cleveland class Light Cruisers:

 

[Jemiba]

Nearly feeling bad about always "nagging", but .....
You built triple-5-inch turrets, didn't you ? I thought about getting along with standard twin turrets.
From the destroyer designs carrying this weapon, I think, that spacing couild be closer and its weight
surely was much less, than the original 6 inch triples. So I tried an arrangement with five turrets on the
bow and six on the stern, besides the four turrets on the ships sides. Its not that great an improvement
with regards to numbers of guns (30 to 27), but to standardisation.

 

[Tzoli]

I've chosen the Triple turrets as indeed theyx could fire a bit slower then a twin but you have one extra barrel to shoot with. Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

 

[Jemiba]

... Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

Thats's a good argument, I think, but the triple probably needs a larger turret ring, than a twin.

 

[Tzoli]

... Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

Thats's a good argument, I think, but the triple probably needs a larger turret ring, than a twin.

Yep that is true, but the extra firepower always needed seeing the Kamikaze attacks that plagued the late war USN Fleets!

 

[Tzoli]

Now two variants of the French Richelieu:
1st a regular 4x2 layout:

2nd the preliminary design of her in Admiral de Feo Style:

Original idea here (Project no 5)
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/NWS/Marine_National/Alsace/images/Richelieu_Preliminary_2C6F5.jpg

 

[Jemiba]

Well, interesting designs, but the one with the midship turrets realy would have eraned a french equivalent
of the british nicknames "Nelsol" and "Rodnol" for the Nelson class !

 

[Tzoli]

Lol?

 

[Evil Flower]

Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

 

[Tzoli]

Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

Something like with Phalanxes, Harpoons and Tomahawks?
I don't know, but I found something similar though with Russian/Soviet weaponry:

 

[airman]

Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

Something like with Phalanxes, Harpoons and Tomahawks?
I don't know, but I found something similar though with Russian/Soviet weaponry:

Awesome !!! Wonderful, eccezzionale !!! B) B)

 

[Jemiba]

My first thought wa "very far fetched !", but as the survival of a Yamato class ship is that either,
why not ? IF the war had ended earlier, tere COULD have be still a IJN Yamato or Mushi and then MAYBE
Japan would have been a neutral state, buying equipment from whatever source available...
Either way,looking great !

 

[Grey Havoc]

My first thought wa "very far fetched !", but as the survival of a Yamato class ship is that either,
why not ? IF the war had ended earlier, tere COULD have be still a IJN Yamato or Mushi and then MAYBE
Japan would have been a neutral state, buying equipment from whatever source available...
Either way,looking great !

Or the Soviets might have been able to gooble up more of Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyfhs42mdyA

 

[Tzoli]

Probably

As for modernized Yamato, I've only found these:

or check the images here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51054730@N07/sets/72157624840133072/with/4865577826/

 

[Tzoli]

And now my idea of a Conversion to BBG of the HMS Vanguard:

The Two forward turrets were not changed:
Two twin 381mm (15 inch) Mark I Cannons
The two aft turrets replaced with two twin Sea Slug Long Range SAM launchers
I've replaced the 133mm (5.25inch) Mark I twin guns with 127mm (5 inch) Mark N1 Twin Guns
I've removed the 10 quad 40mm Bofors AA guns and replaced them with 6 quad Sea Cat Short Range SAM launchers and their radar directors.

 

[Jemiba]

I know, that there was an article about proposals to convert HMS Vanguard into a missile carrying
ship (maybe on http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects ), but I couldn't
find it still yet, so I've only wiki as source ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_%2823%29 ).
But there actually were such ideas. And, as you probably would be disappointed, if I won't moan :
Perhaps you should include a deck house in front of the upper Sea Slug launcher, as this missile system was built
with horizontal storage ?

 

[Tzoli]

I know, that there was an article about proposals to convert HMS Vanguard into a missile carrying
ship (maybe on http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects ), but I couldn't
find it still yet, so I've only wiki as source ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_%2823%29 ).
But there actually were such ideas. And, as you probably would be disappointed, if I won't moan :
Perhaps you should include a deck house in front of the upper Sea Slug launcher, as this missile system was built
with horizontal storage ?

Actually I've drawed them with vertical (or angled vertical) loading mechanism hence the doors behind and beneath them which sounds more logical considering I've replaced the main cannons

 

[Tzoli]

A further improved Fuso:

Changed the twin turrets to Yamato style ones but the guns are still 36cm one (14") but better. Removed the secondary casemate guns, and increased the Heavy AA from 4 turrets to 10.

 

[Tzoli]

And now an Improved Nagato:

I removed the casemate cannons thus increasing the space on deck, giving space for extra Light AA guns, I also added 6 more 127mm AA turrets near the aft and fore superstructure, and replaced the seaplane catapult to the stern. Also redesigned the superstructure to get more Yamato-ish look.

 

[Jemiba]

Similar to the modifications of HMS Valiant/Queen Elisabeth, to my opinion amongst the best
modernisations of older battleships in the RN !

 

[Tzoli]

Now my idea for an Improved Oyodo:

An Oyodo with much better fighting capabilities. This one is equipped with 15 155mm Guns in 5 triple turrets instead of the original 6 in 2 triple turrets.

 

[Tzoli]

And something Similar:

An Anti Aircraft Variant of the Oyodo class Cruiser.
It is equipped with 22x 100mm AA Guns in 11 Double turrets.

 

[Jemiba]

The latter probably would have been the more worthwhile ship for the IJN, I think.

 

[Tzoli]

The latter probably would have been the more worthwhile ship for the IJN, I think.

Probably yes.
Though they do had a real CLAA Design with 12 twin turrets of the 10cm Type 98 AA guns in 4 groups with 3 turrets each:

 

[Tzoli]

One of my early drawings/edits:
Improved Takao

It is lengthened and beamier then the original

 

[Tzoli]

And a bit improved Edinburgh:

an added extra 5th triple turret and a pair of AA guns

 

[Jemiba]

Judging the experiences, the RN had made in the Mediterranean, I think it would rather have
been even more AA guns.

 

[Tzoli]

Problem with your drawing that you put the front AA guns in the space used by the aircraft catapult to launch planes!

 

[Jemiba]

Yes, you're right, but to my opinion, the possibilty to carry aircraft had become more and
more neglegible during the later stages of the war. Radar had become more efficient and
reliable and neither on the convoy routes in the artic sea, nor in the pacific other aircraft,
than those launched from carriers played a large role anymore.

 

[Tzoli]

Yes, you're right, but to my opinion, the possibilty to carry aircraft had become more and
more neglegible during the later stages of the war. Radar had become more efficient and
reliable and neither on the convoy routes in the artic sea, nor in the pacific other aircraft,
than those launched from carriers played a large role anymore.

Actually not because of that.
UK ships of late war carried less or no aircraft because of the plenty Aircraft Carriers do the Job

 

[Jemiba]

Indeed, and as is mentioned in some sources, aircraft with their related fuel
were often regarded as more a liability, than an asset for a fighting ship.
HMS King George V, for example, carried no aircraft since 1944.

 

[Tzoli]

Indeed, and as is mentioned in some sources, aircraft with their related fuel
were often regarded as more a liability, than an asset for a fighting ship.
HMS King George V, for example, carried no aircraft since 1944.

And Vanguard and the cancelled Neptune class cruisers designed/finished with no aircraft facilities.

 

[Tzoli]

And now here is two variant of an improved KGV, I call KGVI (King George VI class)

Version A:

Version B:

 

[Jemiba]

AFAIK the quadruple turrets proved to be problematic, so maybe a version with four triples would
be reasonable ? Stil two more heavy guns, than the original version, but greatly improved reliabilty
and better handling inside the turrets.

 

[Tzoli]

AFAIK the quadruple turrets proved to be problematic, so maybe a version with four triples would
be reasonable ? Stil two more heavy guns, than the original version, but greatly improved reliabilty
and better handling inside the turrets.

Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then
Same applies to the Nelsons, though a design error the Turrets ammo supply was problematic but it was solved later.

 

[Jemiba]

Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then

Why not, but one of the complaints was, that the turrets was cramped, something, that probably
couldn't be solved easily.

 

[Tzoli]

Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then

Why not, but one of the complaints was, that the turrets was cramped, something, that probably
couldn't be solved easily.

But if I would had used the 4 triple turrets then I would get the Lion 16D variant which was an official design.

 

[Tzoli]

Another one from my early times of drawings a re-drawed a bit more conventional Kostenko 1936 proposal BB:

 

[Tzoli]

Another British this time:

This 5 turreted Exeter Heavy Cruiser in fact a design that developed the Surrey class Heavy Cruiser. The design started as a 5 turreted York class but with reduced armour to maintain speed and able to carry this many turrets. There were two turret layouts, this one and another where the 3rd turret placed just behind the 2nd funnel, giving a ship somewhat Iron Duke class look.

 

[Jemiba]

Looks great and probably would have been a much tougher adversary to the "Admiral Graf Spee". But the N would have
needed a wealthy sponsor, as the York-class was born as a cheaper alternative to the County class.
Nevertheless, from the point of sheer beauty, it certainly wins over the Countys !