Tanks converted to APCs?

[Foo Fighter]

Yet the poster child for an MBT chassis converted to APC, the Namer, is actually heavier than the Merkava.



Yes, any rear engined APC has the engine in the way of the troops. It's why the Ukrainians were turning the T64 chassis around, even though the engine was mostly out of the way even in the back.

I think the weight growth is down to the increased threat from IED and portable anti armour weapons, the infantry going in closer than tank units tend to.

Considering the use the Jordanians made of the Cent hull, it would have (IMHO) made much more sense to go all out and keep just the running gear. The hull CAN be cut and shut and a relocation of the engine (Again IMHO) to the front is no worse a solution than all the faffing they have actually gone through.

Yes, considering that they could have turned the hull around too. Either way, dismounting infantry ate the rear of the vehicle can help with street clearing and the dismounts being covered by open access door properly proofed against small arms but my infantry training was a long time ago.

Perhaps what we did in NI with Saracen etc may not be relevant now. In a certain Israeli deployment, possibly.

Basically any half arsed conversion is less use than the componants which make it, and a waste of money/time.

 

[Foo Fighter]

That there front load/dismount system is an exercise in pointlessness.

One small automatic weapon, let alone a .3 or .5 (Even an old school M2) would make the interior into a mincemeat grinder. That and seriously degrade the situational awareness of the remaining crew to the point where they become an easy target.

Not even able to confront conventional threats let alone drones.

I wish they could teach joined upo thinking and threat assessment on a local level, to those making decisions.

No, not holding my breath either.

 

[Foo Fighter]

No idea if it is 100% accurate but wiki lists the Merkava at 65 tons and the Namer at 62.5 tons.

 

[Scott Kenny]

No idea if it is 100% accurate but wiki lists the Merkava at 65 tons and the Namer at 62.5 tons.

And also quotes the designers as saying they reinvested the weight that a turret would have had into more armor, making the Namer heavier than the Merkava.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Namer 62.5 tons, Merkava 65 tons.

Not a lot of difference but that would not be possible if the Namer was on the same armour package as the Merkava so even with the extra armour there is a slight weight difference.

 

[F.L.]

Ukrainian modified T-62 into IFV, but I think with no internal troop capacity.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-volunteers-transform-t-62-tanks-into-heavy-infantry-fighting-vehicles/

 

[Foo Fighter]

This would make it more of an infantry support vehicle than an IFV, much more useful if you are going in for house clearing which is a lesson that has needed to be repeated numerous times.

 

[Newtonk]

Another Russian bastardisation, a modernised design based on the immortal T 72...

 

[Andrei_bt]

actually an old BMO-T upgrade

 

[Scott Kenny]

Another Russian bastardisation, a modernised design based on the immortal T 72...View attachment 734308
View attachment 734308

So, space for 5 inside? How do they get out of the tank?

 

[skylancer-3441]

New seats provide about 56cm of shoulder width per person, that's 95th percentile (not in extreme cold weather uniform, and without bulkier gear).

That's how soldiers dismount on BMO-T:

 

[Newtonk]

Yep, that blows, the Israelis had it right with the Achzarit, turn the engine 90° and exit via a tunnel with ramp. Going up and over the engine is an injury in the making.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Yep, that blows, the Israelis had it right with the Achzarit, turn the engine 90° and exit via a tunnel with ramp. Going up and over the engine is an injury in the making.

And kinda takes the soldier out from behind the armor a lot sooner.

 

[Newtonk]

True, I hadn't considered that aspect... Looking at the images above, the dismounts are exposed also as soon as they exit the hatch, damn

 

[skylancer-3441]

Israelis had it right with the Achzarit, turn the engine 90° and exit via a tunnel with ramp.

Achzarit has its engine transversely mounted, same as T-54/55/62/72/90. It has space for passageway because it uses V8 instead of V12 - same V8 as on M108/109/110 SPH and XM701 MICV, where it's also transversely mounted (to leave some space for driver which is sitting side by side with it).

There was however a German proposal with longitudinally mounted V8 side by side with passageway - in mid90s, from Wegmann & Co, for NGP

 

[GTX]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtGepHdT-0

 

[moin1900]

ARMOR MAGAZINE
JANUARY - FEBRUARY 1999
VOLUME 108, No.1
Page: 22 - 23

Is the Bradley Heavy Enough to Replace
The M113 in Combat Engineer Units?
Author's Proposal Calls for Modifying the M1 Chassis

 

[Andrei_bt]

Project of T-55 conversion into BMP, early 2000s. Installation of 5TDF engine allowed to make a convenient enough exit for the crew without re-profiling the vehicle, increasing the height of the hull provided acceptable conditions for troops and crew, also improved mine protection. There were many such projects, they differed mainly by the degree of intervention in the original design, but in general they were quite simple and cheap.
Then there were a lot of other projects, reviews and meetings, the overall outcome of which was zero. The question of creating a BMP based on the most common T-64 tank without radical interventions in the design seems to be raised once again, as long as it does not end up as usual.

 

[Big_Zukini]

View attachment 654861

New to me, image of the Ofek... Which, strictly speaking, isn't really an APC. And is in production.

Haven't found reference to it here in this thread, but the Ofek was based on Merkava 2 in the prototype stage, but as far as I know it's only a Mark 3 in serial production. Haven't seen a Mark 2 based one so far.

Aside from the Ofek, which is a command vehicle, there is also the Pereg, also built on the Merkava 3 chassis. A Hebrew acronym for Generic AFV Platform.
It reportedly comes in 2 variants: One with 2.5 ton crane, and another with a 65 ton winch.
It's to be used for multiple roles, including recovery, repairs, and medevac.





There is also a higher end version based on the Namer with a larger crane.

And also quotes the designers as saying they reinvested the weight that a turret would have had into more armor, making the Namer heavier than the Merkava.

The Merkava has been referred to in various IDF PR videos as an 80 ton vehicle, while no reference above the stated 62.5 tons (for Namer 1 CEV) has been made so far.

EDIT: Why does it not display my images? When I go to edit mode it shows them perfectly.

 

[Arjen]

@Big_Zukini
I hit the reply button to see the image links in your message, I fed the first one https://www.himush.co.il/media/2021/08/b6df8468-e47f-4809-a960-6cffd07d4976.jpg to my browser address-line.
This is what it returned:


You could try downloading the desired images to your device, then insert them into your message from there.

 

[Big_Zukini]

Indeed. As per forum rules:

ALWAYS post images via the forum's attachment option, not as links. This way we won't lose the image if the original source website disappears.

I copied the image itself and it shows now. Is that the correct form?

 

[dan_inbox]

I copied the image itself and it shows now. Is that the correct form?

Yes, now it does. Thank you.

Just for fun, an interesting photo of an Ofek with Urdan Backtrail diesel tank, back in 2021: