Surface Ships Need More Offensive Punch, Outlook

bobbymike said:
nationalinterest.org

The Navy Has a Warship That Could be Way Better Than Aircraft Carriers

The U.S. Navy’s San Antonio-class amphibious transport docks (LPDs) represent a versatile and cost-effective solution for future naval power projection, as opposed to the very expensive aircraft carriers of today, like the Ford-class, which cost $120 billion.
nationalinterest.org nationalinterest.org
Click to expand...

On what planet is an LPD comparable to a CVN?

I mean, yes, there missions where the LPD is better but I can't imagine swapping an LPD for a CVN pretty.much ever.
 
Forest Green said:
Clearly some foreign agents have gotten past vetting. Time to find the relevant welders and give them some private welding lessons.
Click to expand...

That's a huge leap. There are many other options here.

1) An unhappy worker decided to sabotage something.

2) Worker(s) decided to take shortcuts in the welding process to speed up their work.

3) Worker(s) hoped to create overtime opportunities by making bad welds that would need reworking.
 
TomS said:
That's a huge leap. There are many other options here.

1) An unhappy worker decided to sabotage something.

2) Worker(s) decided to take shortcuts in the welding process to speed up their work.

3) Worker(s) hoped to create overtime opportunities by making bad welds that would need reworking.
Click to expand...
The same worker is welding on subs AND aircraft carriers? Really?
 
sferrin said:
Difficult to imagine a scenario where they're so short on welders they're shuffling people between locations. (Especially given they're needed on both programs.)
Click to expand...

The sub and carrier building areas are like 2 miles apart at most. It's not a big area.

And note that they way they are using intentional here could include all sorts of deliberate shortcuts that could be taken by multiple people either independently or because they were trained the same way. It does not necessarily imply sabotage.
 
TomS said:
And note that they way they are using intentional here could include all sorts of deliberate shortcuts that could be taken by multiple people either independently or because they were trained the same way. It does not necessarily imply sabotage.
Click to expand...
Though sabotage can not be ruled out, especially in the current times. It may not have been even human sabotage, at least in some cases. US computer security is mostly a joke these days...
 
TomS said:
That's a huge leap. There are many other options here.

1) An unhappy worker decided to sabotage something.

2) Worker(s) decided to take shortcuts in the welding process to speed up their work.

3) Worker(s) hoped to create overtime opportunities by making bad welds that would need reworking.
Click to expand...
"Intentionally faulty," doesn't really fit with 2) and 1) and 3) are even more of a leap, especially when it involves more than one vessel.

TomS said:
The sub and carrier building areas are like 2 miles apart at most. It's not a big area.

And note that they way they are using intentional here could include all sorts of deliberate shortcuts that could be taken by multiple people either independently or because they were trained the same way. It does not necessarily imply sabotage.
Click to expand...
There's shortcuts and intentionally faulty. I sometimes take a shortcut or alternate route to avoid traffic, that doesn't imply an intention to crash my car.
 
TomS said:
That's a huge leap. There are many other options here.

1) An unhappy worker decided to sabotage something.

2) Worker(s) decided to take shortcuts in the welding process to speed up their work.

3) Worker(s) hoped to create overtime opportunities by making bad welds that would need reworking.
Click to expand...

I’d bet on number 3. If you know exactly how union workers are paid, you can probably figure out the motivation. It might even be about giving overtime to workers near retirement so they can increase their overall pension amounts. Bob Junior with 5 years on the job botches a weld so Bob Senior with 29 years 11 months can get some extra overtime. This is a very prevalent scheme among union workers with fixed benefit pensions.
 
TomS said:
The sub and carrier building areas are like 2 miles apart at most. It's not a big area.

And note that they way they are using intentional here could include all sorts of deliberate shortcuts that could be taken by multiple people either independently or because they were trained the same way. It does not necessarily imply sabotage.
Click to expand...
Oh I know that. Manufacturing engineer here trying to keep Ops on the straight and narrow. Time for my medicine now:

c7221bbf65bb6edf0b4a8d2a99c703d1.gif
 
Last edited:
Forest Green said:
"Intentionally faulty," doesn't really fit with 2) and 1) and 3) are even more of a leap, especially when it involves more than one vessel.
...
There's shortcuts and intentionally faulty. I sometimes take a shortcut or alternate route to avoid traffic, that doesn't imply an intention to crash my car.
Click to expand...
I'm reminded of the story I read years ago* about someone doing engine rebuilds or upgrades at a USAF or USN aircraft depot who wasn't following the prescribed methodology - and was binning the parts he had left over at the end. ISTR it caused at least one hull loss before he was caught.

That fits "intentionally faulty", IMO. It's a shortcut, it's intentional, and he knew it was a faulty way to do it. But did it anyway. And it's something that could easily happen again.

* My memory's suggesting in Flight in the late 80s or early 90s, but I could be completely wrong.
 
DWG said:
I hope someone's asking whether there is adequate QA going on if these welds were systematically being passed as okay.
Click to expand...
Coincidentally I'm just reading Diary of a Wartime Naval Constructor (Ian Buxton's transcription of Sir Stanley Goodall's diary) and my latest reading had him pressing to draft in a scientist to get started on x-raying welds. Reading DKB (across several books) it's clear welding started as something outre, then as the technology developed and the new risks were better understood so did the QA processes to monitor them, but it became normalised and as we understood the level of risk QA could be stepped down. It's possible we've now reached the point of contempt through familiarity that people need reminding it's not a 100% perfect every time technology and that there are consequences to slacking off on QA that needed guarding against.
 
Last edited:
Jimmo952 said:
Things like intentionally bad welds and cut cables are treasonous. The perpetrators should be dealt with accordingly.
Click to expand...
Treason is defined very tightly in the US. This doesn't meet the precedents (not least that the US is not currently at war).

There's other, "lesser" charges that can still be applied, and were in the case of the Miami. I expect similar charges to be filed here.

Though that also exposes a problem with the current construction process for subs. EB makes some modules, NNS makes others, and they ship the modules to the other yard to complete assembly. Means that some shithead at NNS has now made inadequate subs at EB.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom