Excuse me. What these claims, made by "some Russians", have to do with a person we know under the nickname LMFS and the discussion about fighter jets generations?!
And i never said you did. Read my post carefully, you'll see i've made analogy "some Russians>>some Westerners" to show it's not objective and has no relation to fighter jet generations.
I don't want to be the smart-ass here...... But I hope we are not comparing pre- Ukraine 2014 sanction production numbers to production numbers after sanctions with the LTS production numbers as the same thing.
Sources please and make sure they are good, not bad ones like me taking General Brown or Christopher millers opinion on the f-35.
This may be the case in hindsight, but official plans from the Defense Ministry, including the GPV 2020, had planned on PAK FA serial production to begin in 2016.
Stop with the passive-aggressive bullshit or be banned. Your choice. Its a matter of public record that T-50-1 suffered structural cracking and the repairs took over a year and later prototypes have beefed-up structure.
..and F-35 was intended to be in service by 2007, with a price tag for A model of $32-35mil in Y1997 bucks. Speaking of bold statements, yeah.
www.wsj.com
I remember the same talks in 2000's: "PAK FA program will cost billions and its life fully depends on Indian money, poor Russia can't afford it on its own". India sent $300 million in 2007, that's all. But PAK FA didn't die. I imagine how shocked were those Cassandras, from the old KeyPub and Militaryphotos forums. With UAE or without, this program already happens. Coz it's not about UAE, but about the whole World Fighter-Jet Market.
It was 180 mil, wasn't it?
$295 mil, to be precise.
Same thing with literally every big fighter project, Russian, European American or whatever, with the only exception of J-20 which was actually faster than expected. I could be hammering Europeans and their decades long delays, US funny initial price statements for the JSF and so on for hours and hours. It does not change that the above statements about the LTS "not existing" are nothing but rhetoric and being a dick for the fun of it, when we know the design and features of the the LTS and the chief constructor has confirmed it is designed and tested by digital means. Hence the generation correspondence, concept and potential of the plane is clear for anyone with a clue and people's preference to bury the head in the sand and deny its mere existence is their own problem. What we write here remains written
Here is where we will learn whether DE is all it is hyped to be and whether Sukhoi will manage to master it. The actual technical people are normally quite conservative in their statements because they risk their reputation with them, so I tend to take their estimations seriously. Of course we all know deviations and uncertainties exist in any program.
Actually, if you look carefully at PAK FA program, its main problems were(and partially are): technological lag + deficit of industry capacity and qualified workforce. Money never was the main problem. Not for the country that could spend dozens of billions of bucks on the pointless(from my PoV) Olympic games or FIFA World Cup.
Both of which ended up positive in revenue, but that's not a discussion for this place.
Olympic Games brought $53 million of operational profit. With billions spent on it. New technological enterprises, been these billions spent on them, could do the same, but additionally could bring us new workplaces for qualified and educated people + new technologies. Then, may be the number of the young and talented scientists and engineers, emigrating every year from Russia to the West, wasn't so horribly high. That's why i think these shows were pointless.
Well, our scepticism doesn't change anything in the end, in retrospective it just shows how discerning we were back in the day, and whether our understanding of the events developing was correct or not, that is why I said that all that we write here will remain for the future. I can very clearly remind in what terms the West assessed the PAK-FA or any other Russian program in their early days, and sadly nothing has changed since then, nothing has been learned from their constant prediction failures. Proven wrong once and hundred times, they insist in the same narrative. So it is not a neutral objective assessment, but a clear bias which is not worthy of further discussion IMHO. I don't agree on that budget issue, this is a perennial claim from the West but I don't see MoD failing to implement their programs or having to rely on deficit to work, which would be the actual proof of budgetary restrictions being an issue. Quite the contrary, the VMF for instance has not been able to use their available budget for a number of years, due to industrial constraints. But the argument itself is a totally hollow, blatant propagandistic trick, since every single economy has budgetary limits that they need to respect and that constrain their development. You have USN and USAF complaining about budget tightening and doing all kinds of maneuvers to get funding for their programs for instance, despite the Pentagon handling the budget of a medium country just for themselves. They issue is not that there are limits to what you can spend, the issue is whether you manage to do what you need to do within them, and Russia is clearly succeeding in that regard. PAK-FA has never had to be cancelled or backtracked due to budget or because of the lack of foreign patrons (rather they increased expectations for instance with Project Megapolis instead or with the 76 units contract, instead of the Western projected cancellation), and the funding for LTS has been said to be in place, not to depend on any buyer in particular and stated to be quite reduced actually, due to the amount of testing done in the PAK-FA and the advances in digital engineering. So no, I don't really see what budget problem you are referring to and don't think this is a specially relevant threat for the LTS program.
Agree, projection and wishful thinking instead of facts. None of these people has ever bothered analysing the size of the Russian military budget and making some calculations based on them. It is Russia, therefore it must be poor and doomed to fail, that's all that the public needs to think.
Not sure I understand you. I think specifically at KnAAZ the effort right now is to set up a small but very efficient production line for the Su-57. Probably it does not make a lot of sense to scale things up until the setup has been tested and debugged and the second stage planes are available. The production of the LTS should already use a highly automated, very low cost per unit line.
well considering it has conventional tailfin.. i think it deserve separate designation. More like Export version of Izdeliye-180.
Indeed, it lends credence to the theory that the UAE was only entertaining the idea as a way to put pressure on the U.S. to sell them F-35s.
The UAE Air Force, according to Russian Wikipedia, has 68 Mirage-2000 and 79 F-16 units.
