Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

[stealthflanker]

hmm would love to see PAKFA demonstrate weapon release from its internal bay a.l.a JSF or F-22.

 

[bring_it_on]

Latest on the PAKFA from AIR -

https://www.scribd.com/doc/269302992/AIR-PAKFA-Status-June-15?secret_password=3OBFokUfwt5F2RZoZWmG

 

[flanker]

Piotr Unicornski delivers once again. Thanks for posting, a few interesting nuggets of info. Like the new tail for "Stage 2" T-50's and that while i was correct in suspecting stinger housed Himalaya equipment i was wrong on suspecting it was not a radar per see. Apparently it is a radar, but since it is under Himalaya system, it does ECM tasks.

 

[flateric]

PiBu says 'cheese'

 

[flanker]

Kubinka? And Vitaly Kuzmin?

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2015/06/20/india_and_russias_fifth-generation_fighter_aircraft_108107.html

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Thrust figures for the 117 changed. Originally it was 147 kN (33,000 lbf), now it's 142 kN (32,000 lbf)? Supercruise of Mach 1.3 seems suspiciously low.

As for avionics, I was under the impression the slat L-bands don't have elevation control to be truly effective radars. Also, only 4 missile warning sensors, versus 6 on the F-35 and F-22. Assuming full spherical coverage, this seems to imply much greater sensor FOV.

Potentially reshaped rear fuselage seems promising though.

 

[flateric]

Kubinka? And Vitaly Kuzmin?

Yes/no.

 

[flanker]

Thrust figures for the 117 changed. Originally it was 147 kN (33,000 lbf), now it's 142 kN (32,000 lbf)? Supercruise of Mach 1.3 seems suspiciously low.

Well that whole part is wrong. It says "Izd.30" but it is talking about 117. And 117 has 15 000kg of thrust including on the emergency AB. It is 117S that has 14 500kg of thrust.

 

[sferrin]

Thrust figures for the 117 changed. Originally it was 147 kN (33,000 lbf), now it's 142 kN (32,000 lbf)? Supercruise of Mach 1.3 seems suspiciously low.

Well that whole part is wrong. It says "Izd.30" but it is talking about 117. And 117 has 15 000kg of thrust including on the emergency AB. It is 117S that has 14 500kg of thrust.

So what exactly is the engine situation for the T-50? ???

 

[flanker]

Current T-50's, "Phase 1" use "izd.117". It was planned that the prototypes and first 40-60 serial T-50's will use this engine.

"Phase 2" will use izd.30, which is a completely new engine, first two will be made this year. It will take over from 117 and be in production from 2020'ish.

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Current T-50's, "Phase 1" use "izd.117". It was planned that the prototypes and first 40-60 serial T-50's will use this engine.

"Phase 2" will use izd.30, which is a completely new engine, first two will be made this year. It will take over from 117 and be in production from 2020'ish.

Any reason as to why thrust figures for izd.30 seemed to have changed? Originally it was planned to be 175 kN (like in Air International October 2013), but it's now 167 kN?

 

[Dragon029]

.

 

[flanker]

They haven't changed; because no one officially stated any thrust figures to change. It is all speculation at this point.

 

[flanker]

Well, now Borisov really stated that they are cutting planned T-50 numbers. They will only buy a test squadron in the nearest years. Now it might just mean that they are only planning to get 12 to get them tested and iron out the bugs before buying more but it sounds like they are cutting the overall numbers, not just the initial contract.

 

[flanker]

Production/delivery plan as of now;

2016 - 2 serials, 3 prototypes. (10,-11,-12. Last one is static frame)
2017 - 5 serials, 3 of which will be part of PMF.
2018 - 5 serials, 1 of which will be part of PMF.
2019 - "Full series", unkown what that means but probably atleast 12 frames.

T-50-5R will take off in coming days, T-50-6-2 will follow afterwards, in September.

 

[totoro]

what is pmf?

so 8 serial planes plus 16 serial planes for pmf? that is higher than one dozen count recently mentioned to be ordered.
what will be the role of the 8 and what of the 16?

 

[flanker]

what is pmf?

FGFA.

so 8 serial planes plus 16 serial planes for pmf? that is higher than one dozen count recently mentioned to be ordered.
what will be the role of the 8 and what of the 16?

Eh, the 2019 number is speculation on my part and split between PMF/FGFA and for RuAF is unknown for that year.

 

[totoro]

i see, thanks. looking at the dynamic of india bound airframes it looks more like prototypes than serial planes. (i mean 3 per year, then 1)

anyway, perhaps it'd be prudent to wait for the article 30 engines then, before making any first big order? That's in case the engines do finish development by 2020 and are, perhaps, ready for large scale production by 2021?

 

[flanker]

T-50 will be on static display at MAKS. You know what to do Flateric!

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

What exactly is the design of the 117 engine anyways? For the longest time, I assumed that it had 4 stage fan (low pressure compressor) and 9 stage high pressure compressor, same as the AL-31F. This is what's reported by Piotr Butowski. Also, recent discussions from Key Pub claims that the AL-31F-M3 from MMPP Salyut that lost to Saturn's 117 had 3 stage fan and 6 stage high pressure compressor, and higher performance at 15.2 tons (149 kN, 33,500 lbf) thrust compared to 117's 33,000 lbf.

By contrast, according to PiBu the second stage izd.30 engine has 3 stage fan and 5 stage high pressure compressor.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Salyut's roadmap looked like this back some years ago.

AL-31F-M1 New KND-924-4 fan (greater diameter (from 910 to 924mm), higher compression ratio (from 3.54 to 3.68).
AL-31F-M2 Improved KND-924-4 fan (compression ratio 4.0) and improved turbine cooling.
AL-31F-M3 New KND-924-3 fan using blisks (compression ratio 4.25), Max thrust 14,500kg.
Salyut's followup to AL-31F-M3 was supposed to have a new 6 stage compressor using blisks, etc.

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Salyut's roadmap looked like this back some years ago.

AL-31F-M1 New KND-924-4 fan (greater diameter (from 910 to 924mm), higher compression ratio (from 3.54 to 3.68).
AL-31F-M2 Improved KND-924-4 fan (compression ratio 4.0) and improved turbine cooling.
AL-31F-M3 New KND-924-3 fan using blisks (compression ratio 4.25), Max thrust 14,500kg.
Salyut's followup to AL-31F-M3 was supposed to have a new 6 stage compressor using blisks, etc.

Thanks. I remember reading the Salyut was rather unhappy that the 117 was picked over. Interestingly enough they are working with the Chinese for the interim J-20 engines.

 

[Triton]

Russia: New T-50 prototype takes to the skies at Aviadarts-2015

Published on Aug 5, 2015

Several early models of Russia's fifth-generation series of fighter-jets took part in Aviadarts-2015, in the Ryazan Region on Wednesday. The jets belong to the Russian Air Force's "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation" (PAK FA) programme that pioneers aircraft technologies.

https://youtu.be/FnE5bgxA_-w

 

[Triton]

"Unique Capabilities of PAK FA Pilot’s Gear Unveiled"
14:58 09.08.2015(updated 15:03 09.08.2015

Source:
http://sputniknews.com/military/20150809/1025554827.html

A special suit for pilots who will fly the newest Sukhoi PAK FA (also known as T-50) jet fighter has been developed by Russian engineers and scientists.

The suit was specially designed to make the pilot feel comfortable during supersonic-speed flights. It is equipped with an anti-G system which features a hose for delivering air to the pilot.

The gear also features pockets for flight documents. In the abdominal area there is a metal plate which presses against the pilot’s body to maintain blood flow to the head.

The costume was developed and is being currently tested by Zvezda R&D center in the city of Tomilino, near Moscow.

In addition, the facility is also testing a pilot’s helmet, the most technically advanced part of the gear.

Produced of composite materials like the PAK FA aircraft itself, the helmet is extremely light and can withstand overloads during an ejection escape at speeds of over 1000 kmh.

The all-digital helmet is connected to all PAK FA’s on-board photo and video cameras and transmits all data to its visor. As a result, all actual flight information is always before the eyes of the pilot.

"When the pilot’s head moves the image [on the helmet display] changes respectively. What is more, the system is capable to detect the pupil’s movements for automatic targeting," one the developers told the TV channel Zvezda.

In addition, a new survival kit has been developed for the PAK FA pilots.

If the pilot has to eject and land in an unknown area this kit is his only chance to survive.

The survival pack contains a pan, antenna, signal mirror, 16 cubes of sugar, first aid kit, two match boxes, a signal pistol with charges, 1.5-liter bottle of water, machete knife, radio beacon, and portable radio.

When necessary the container of the kit can be easily turned into a boat or a water-proof sleeping bag.

 

[malipa]

I don't know if that is a real video... It almost looks like it is a simulation...

 

[flateric]

I don't know if that is a real video... It almost looks like it is a simulation...

what's wrong with it? video is real

 

[Triton]

"Russia to Begin Testing Three More Stealth Fighter Prototypes"
by Brendan McGarry on June 16, 2015

Source:
http://defensetech.org/2015/06/16/russia-to-begin-testing-three-more-stealth-fighter-prototypes/

PARIS — United Aircraft Corp. plans to deliver three more prototypes of an advanced stealth fighter jet to the Russian military for testing as early as next year, a company official said.

The president of the Moscow-based company, Yuri Slyusar, said three more of the T-50 PAK-FA, a fifth-generation stealth fighter made by United Aircraft subsidiary Sukhoi, will be transferred to the Russian air force in late 2016 or early 2016 as part of a test program.

“We can say that we are in the schedule and these three additional prototypes will allow us to greatly expand the testing program and do it faster,” he said through a translator during a briefing with reporters Monday at the Paris Air Show. “What we’re speaking about in the schedule is to deliver the first batch at the end of 2016, beginning of 2017 to the customer, the ministry of defense, so the aircraft demonstrate all necessary and design characteristics.”

That will bring the total number of T-50 prototypes to eight, according to a fact sheet distributed at the event. The PAK-FA first flew in 2011 and is designed to compete against such U.S. military aircraft as the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, both of which are made by Lockheed Martin Corp.

“Compared to the previous generation fighters, the PAK-FA combines the functions of a strike aircraft and a fighter, thus offering a number of unique capabilities,” the fact sheet states. “As the fifth-generation aircraft, it has an essentially new thoroughly integrated avionics package providing superior automatic control and intelligence support.”

While the T-50 has experienced some development challenges such as engine flameouts, the aircraft is performing well in tests, according to Slyusar.

“The aircraft demonstrates all necessary and design characteristics, so we can say that there is no risk in the program moving it forward and the aircraft meets all the specifications that were initially planned,” he said. “There’s no risk in delays whatsoever.”

The governments of Russia and India have partnered to develop an export version of the aircraft. Russian officials have trained their Indian counterparts and supplied with them data and software to work on research and development.

The Indian version of the aircraft “will have some differences from the Russian prototype due to specific requirements of the Indian air force,” the fact sheet states.

Unlike the previous Paris Air Show, when Russian aircraft such as the Su-35 dominated the skies and dazzled the crowds, the government doesn’t have any military aircraft performing at this year’s event largely because it wanted to focus attention on new civilian aircraft such as plans for a new wide-body airliner to be developed in collaboration with China.

Slyusar also said the company expects to sign a contract this year to sell 24 Su-35s for the Chinese military and is in talks to ink a deal to perform more maintenance work on Russia aircraft.

 

[Sundog]

The flight demo of the T-50 seemed somewhat more sedate than what they have done in the past.

 

[XaHyMaH]

T-50 will be on static display at MAKS.

It is not correct. Sad but true.

 

[T-50]

Russia: New T-50 prototype takes to the skies at Aviadarts-2015

Published on Aug 5, 2015

Several early models of Russia's fifth-generation series of fighter-jets took part in Aviadarts-2015, in the Ryazan Region on Wednesday. The jets belong to the Russian Air Force's "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation" (PAK FA) programme that pioneers aircraft technologies.

https://youtu.be/FnE5bgxA_-w
It looks not as the newest example of the T-50 family because it have the old style camouflage and it have still a pitot tube,newer models have not a pitot tube anymore and the last prototype is painted in a new camouflage pattern

 

[flanker]

It is T-50-2. "New" as in a new fighter, not as in a new test frame.

T-50 will be on static display at MAKS.

It is not correct. Sad but true.

Yup, it was completely wrongly reported by TASS. Became clear a few days after i posted that.

 

[T-50]

It is T-50-2. "New" as in a new fighter, not as in a new test frame.

T-50 will be on static display at MAKS.

It is not correct. Sad but true.

Yup, it was completely wrongly reported by TASS. Became clear a few days after i posted that.

that's indeed the right description for it, new type but not the newest frame

 

[XaHyMaH]

Yup, it was completely wrongly reported by TASS. Became clear a few days after i posted that.

Good things come to those who wait.
BTW, there's new vid at paralay's forum. It seems that new flight programme promises to be more interesting.

 

[bobbymike]

http://theaviationist.com/2015/08/19/infographic-russia-pak-fa-armament/

 

[flanker]

Image credit: United Aircraft Corporation Russia

ಠ_ಠ

This is the source, it is stated clearly right on the infographic itself, it is not official by any means; http://infographicposter.com/

 

[Triton]

"Russia's T-50 Fighter Shows Off New Moves At MAKS Air Show"
by Bill Sweetman

Aug 25, 2015

Source:
http://aviationweek.com/defense/russias-t-50-fighter-shows-new-moves-maks-air-show

Subscription reguired

 

[Triton]

Т-50 ПАК-ФА Ждет СУ-34 Воскресенье 23.08.2015

https://youtu.be/uaqa9t0Z4Bc


Т-50 ПАК-ФА Тренировка пилотаж к МАКС 2015 Воскресенье 23.08.2015

https://youtu.be/BN9t8hs4l_E

 

[flanker]

...Итак, ещё в 2010-м стало ясно, что сконструирован самолёт несколько неудачно. Требуемые эксплуатационные перегрузки выдерживать не мог, на воздухозаборниках срезало заклёпки, воздухо-воздушные теплообменники трещали по сварным швам, а топливо в баке №3 категорически отказывалось расходоваться полностью. Для того, чтобы первая машина безопасно долетала назначенный ресурс в 300 часов, её в августе 2011 поставили на доработки (остальным усиление сделали в заводских условиях) и начали проектирование машины 2-го этапа (кстати, попутно извлекли из киля 50-1 оставленный там гаечный ключ). На 2-м этапе значительно увеличилась доля композитов (практически вся обшивка стала из ПКМ), но масса планера из-за усиления КСС всё равно чрезмерно увеличивалась. Тогда решили заменить во многих узлах дюраль В95 и АК-5 на алюминиево-литиевый сплав 1461Т с удельной массой почти на 20% меньше. В октябре 2012 года было принято окончательное решение о запуске 2-го этапа в производство. Было запланировано 2 машины - Т-50-7 и Т-50-8. В то время на различных стадиях производства находилось 3 машины 1-го этапа - 4, 5, 6. Но вовремя спохватились, и решили сделать 50-7 статикой. А в феврале 13-го решили сделать переходную модель и присвоили ей индекс Т-50-6. Во избежание путаницы Т-50-6 первого этапа стали именовать Т-50-6-1, а машину второго этапа - Т-50-6-2.
Но, среди импортных комплектующих к Т-50 были и американские сотовые структуры из карбона, широко применяемые в крыле и оперении. Наше военное руководство решило, что это недопустимо и решило "импортозаместить" и поручило ОНПП "Технология" из Обнинска разработать отечественные сотовые материалы. Кстати, все остальные композиты для Т-50 делают тоже в Обнинске. Ожидаемо, обнинцы провафлили все сроки. В результате, с горя Стрелец (он сейчас ГК ПАК, а не Давиденко) в мае предложил даже снять оперение с Т-50-4 и поставить на 6-2, доработав обтекатели приводов и полуосей, но месяц назад пришли наконец сотовые наполнители.
Другим проблемным вопросом оказался сплав 1461. Отчаянно трещал при мехобработке, тут ещё надо сказать, что сборка у нас всё ещё ведётся по технологиям 70-х годов, то есть при сборке узлов в агрегат кувалдометр ещё весьма популярен. А подобное обращение сплав вообще не переносил. В результате пошло обратное превращение материала деталей из 1461 в В-95, и иногда и снова обратно в 1461.Что, естественно, приводило в неописуемый восторг всех, прочнистов особенно.
Таким образом прошёл 2013, 2014 и только в феврале 2015-го был состыкован фюзеляж 6-2...

... So, back in 2010, it became clear that a few poorly designed plane. Required operating overload withstand could not cut the rivets on the air intakes, air-to-air heat exchangers for cracked welds, and the fuel in the tank №3 categorically refused consumed completely. To the first safety car came the assigned resource to 300 hours, in August 2011, it delivered on completion (the rest of the gain made in the factory), and started to design the machine of the 2nd stage (by the way, incidentally removed from the keel 50-1 left there wrench key). At the 2nd stage significantly increased the proportion of composites (virtually the entire lining of the RMB has become), but the weight of the airframe due to increased KCC still excessively increased. Then they decided to replace many nodes B95 duralumin and AK-5 on the aluminum-lithium alloy 1461T with a specific weight of almost 20% less. In October 2012, the final decision on the launch of the 2nd stage of production. It was planned 2 cars - T-50-7 and T-50-8. At that time, at different stages of production are 3 cars 1st stage - 4, 5, 6. But just woke up and decided to make a 50-7 statics. And in February, the 13th decided to make the transition model and assign the T-50-6. To avoid confusion, the T-50-6 of the first phase became known as T-6.1.50, and the second phase of the machine - T 2.6.50.
But among the imported parts to the T-50 were American cellular structure of carbon fiber, widely used in the wing and tail. Our military leadership decided that this is unacceptable and has decided to "importozamestit" and instructed CVTs "Technology" from Obninsk develop domestic cellular materials. By the way, all the other composites for the T-50 is also made in Obninsk. Expectedly, obnintsev provaflili all time. As a result, grief Sagittarius (he is now GK Pak, not Davydenko) in May even suggested removal of plumage from T-50-4 and put on 6-2, modified fairing and drive spindles, but a month ago finally came honeycomb.
Another problematic issue was the alloy 1461. Desperate crackled when mechanical working, then there must be said that the assembly we still conducted on technologies 70s, that is, the assembly units in unit kuvaldometr still very popular. A similar treatment alloy does not bore. As a result, it went reconversion of the parts of the 1461 B-95, and sometimes back again in 1461.Chto, of course, led to the indescribable delight everyone, especially prochnistov.
Thus passed in 2013, 2014 and in February 2015 of the fuselage was docked 6-2 ...

"Spot 10 differences" in the attached pics... The last two are cleaned up by a friend of mine.

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

After looking at it more closely the tail stinger does appear to be a bit longer. Any reason as to why?

If these drawings are official then we may be able to get the exact dimensions of the aircraft.