Su-30, Su-33, Su-34 and Su-35 News thread, pictures and discussion

[Ronny]

Now 50% duty cycle means the radar PRF or pulsewidth will be so large that even when you start "listening" to return pulse after you transmitted your waveform, you can actually still receive returns from target. But you cant make use of this as that pulse may arrive at the time when you start transmitting, the duplexer engages and thus whatever "excess" you have is lost.

The other drawback is no range measurement, despite having longest range, this 50% mode have name "VS" or Velocity Search only, means you cannot measure range, you have to rely on FM Ranging. Also No tailchase/not all aspect. Only good against head on closing target.

I understand that you can't measure range with pulse delay in VS mode, however, it is still plausible to measure range by motion analysis or altitude different ranging. I think Irbis with 50% duty cycle could have even more insane range than it does now.

Also AWG-9 is 5 KW peak like Irbis. 10 KW being the peak.

Ah yes, I miss remember. It was the APG-71 that has 7kW average

 

[Ainen]

IIRC, 101KS-O are electro optical rather than IIR. Basically similar to TCS rather than AAS-42

Those are laser "guns" first, jamming modern(imaging) IR missiles.
Its mirror is consequently for same bands as WVR missile seekers.

But it's also a sensor - because, unlike optical jammer(that can be aimed roughly), coherent jammmer needs to lase exactly the seeker of the target. It is its own source of (laser, but almost certainly not only) firing solution.

Or did you mean KS-V/OLS-50M?(which btw may also have turret function, but this is my speculation)

 

[stealthflanker]

it is still plausible to measure range by motion analysis or altitude different ranging

Not as accurate as good ol Pulse delay ranging. Thus why you still have radar works in Low-Medium PRF.

I think Irbis with 50% duty cycle could have even more insane range than it does now.

You still wont solve eclipsing loss tho, and that will cap your range.

 

[Ronny]

Those are laser "guns" first, jamming modern(imaging) IR missiles.
Its mirror is consequently for same bands as WVR missile seekers.

But it's also a sensor - because, unlike optical jammer(that can be aimed roughly), coherent jammmer needs to lase exactly the seeker of the target. It is its own source of (laser, but almost certainly not only) firing solution.

Or did you mean KS-V/OLS-50M?(which btw may also have turret function, but this is my speculation)

I mean 101KS-O has laser turret but the sensor that used to steer the laser turret is CCD rather than IIR

 

[Ronny]

Not as accurate as good ol Pulse delay ranging. Thus why you still have radar works in Low-Medium PRF.

agree, but why not having something working at Low-medium-high depend on situation?
We don't need to use 50% duty cycle all the time.

You still wont solve eclipsing loss tho, and that will cap your range.

yes, but I would think that 50% duty cycle AWG-9 has longer range than 20% duty cycle AWG-9 , so Irbis is the same

 

[stealthflanker]

agree, but why not having something working at Low-medium-high depend on situation?
We don't need to use 50% duty cycle all the time.

It's already done. Like current fighter radars have all Low-Medium-High PRF modes. e.g Low PRF for no clutter situation or ground mapping, medium PRF is for all-aspect detection and interleaved with High PRF. It's just that duty cycle are typically 25-30%.

yes, but I would think that 50% duty cycle AWG-9 has longer range than 20% duty cycle AWG-9 , so Irbis is the same

Maybe but what if your cooling or even weight constraint cannot allow more ? radar cooling capacity are dictated by average power. the more power, means more cooling. More cooling means heavier cooler or heavier cooling fins.

 

[Joint Soviet Fighter]

You sure Joint Soviet Fighter? I thought I remember an su-35 getting ir imagery of an f-22 from its EO sight a few years back.

That's long since been debunked, as the aircraft in the picture wasn't even an F-22. The only footage from The OLS-35 that I've been able to find is this clip via Twitter, below, that shows an MQ-9 Reaper at point-blank range, which isn't exactly very helpful for our purposes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806449914185990251

View: https://x.com/cyphe0r/status/1806449914185990251

 

[Ronny]

It's already done. Like current fighter radars have all Low-Medium-High PRF modes. e.g Low PRF for no clutter situation or ground mapping, medium PRF is for all-aspect detection and interleaved with High PRF. It's just that duty cycle are typically 25-30%.

yeah, such a shame that they don't use 50% anymore it seem

Maybe but what if your cooling or even weight constraint cannot allow more ? radar cooling capacity are dictated by average power. the more power, means more cooling. More cooling means heavier cooler or heavier cooling fins.

Even the current block 3, F-35 has 40kW cooling, F-15E currently has 35kW cooling that can be expanded to 52kW
I would assume that something the size of Flanker has even more cooling since it is even bigger than F-15 and carry even more fuel, there should be so much space and spare weight for cooling purpose

 

[stealthflanker]

Even the current block 3, F-35 has 40kW cooling, F-15E currently has 35kW cooling that can be expanded to 52kW

You dont use them all for Radar tbh.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

yeah, such a shame that they don't use 50% anymore it seem

It really isn't. 50% duty cycle sacrifices range measurement accuracy for a minor range increase. Modern radars don't need it. In fact modern radars use the least power possible while achieving needed range, not blasting out high power for the sake of it.

 

[Ronny]

You dont use them all for Radar tbh.

Isn’t APG-79 has like 12 kw of cooling? Giving irbis 10 kw cooling doesn’t seem so crazy

 

[Ronny]

It really isn't. 50% duty cycle sacrifices range measurement accuracy for a minor range increase. Modern radars don't need it. In fact modern radars use the least power possible while achieving needed range, not blasting out high power for the sake of it.

With higher duty cycle, you can transmit pulse with lower peak power and still get the same detection range. Radar with higher duty cycle can be harder to detect, ancient radar actually has very low duty cycle and high peak power

 

[Waterballoon]

There is another radar for a possible new MKI radar from India. 350km vs 5sqm, 250km vs 2sqm and 200km vs 1 sqm.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889269422503669903

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1889269422503669903

 

[Ronny]

There is another radar for a possible new MKI radar from India. 350km vs 5sqm, 250km vs 2sqm and 200km vs 1 sqm.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889269422503669903

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1889269422503669903

Indian program always promise so many thing but take forever to complete

 

[FighterJock]

Quite right Ronny. Case in point the AMCA that has not progressed well over the years of it's existence either has it?

 

[Scar]

Indian program always promise so many thing but take forever to complete

Nothing special here, just an ordinary 25kW GaN AESA. Easy-Peasy

 

[snne]

There is another radar for a possible new MKI radar from India. 350km vs 5sqm, 250km vs 2sqm and 200km vs 1 sqm.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889269422503669903

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1889269422503669903

Acc. to @stealthflanker 's calculations, that other radar that is offered for the "super flanker mod." seemed quite capable already so do I smell a competition on the horizon?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1843757228769325138

View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1843757228769325138?t=eOPvF5FDwCMoYDuehlIc-A&s=19

 

[Life of Tyo]

OLS-35 Su-35S on TV mode ( non-IR )maybe

 

[World B4]

The 10th T-10M prototype was reportedly used as an engine testbed for the "second incarnation" Al-41F-1, and here are some good pictures. Based on how the engines look kinda different, does it only have one Al-41?

https://twitter.com/x/status/793563877132869632

View: https://x.com/RSS_40/status/793563877132869632/photo/2

 

[Life of Tyo]

Su-35S RF-95493 from and F-35A on Alaska 18-19 February ( the Su-35S is before doing dangerous manuver to F-16 on 2024 )

 

[bring_it_on]

Indian program always promise so many thing but take forever to complete

My thoughts exactly. Great brochure, and display but how many operational fighter systems does the producer have out there in the field? How many will it have in 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?