StandOff & PGM Weapons

With the need for large amounts of precision weapons and interceptors, it seems a good solution would be to share some production lines between the branches. We see that with Lockheed pushing their PAC-3 for the Navy, Russia looking like they are using 300mm rockets on their jets, and a different thread talking about air launched ATACMS or PRsM.

Could there be a case for using the GMLRS standard or -ER as a base for a cheaper air launch missile? Lockheed is trying to hit 14,000 per year in 2025 up from 6,000 - so unit prices are set to fall with the production increase. USAF buying say 2,000 per year gets to take advantage of a large production set to get volume quickly and low prices.
 
Bulk buys will lower costs, but this effort seems to be attempting to reduce cost by an order of magnitude, which is going to require other measures. I wonder if this project is connected to ERAM or MACE RFI, or if the lack of responses is what motivated it.
 
Shoes31 said:
With the need for large amounts of precision weapons and interceptors, it seems a good solution would be to share some production lines between the branches. We see that with Lockheed pushing their PAC-3 for the Navy, Russia looking like they are using 300mm rockets on their jets, and a different thread talking about air launched ATACMS or PRsM.

Could there be a case for using the GMLRS standard or -ER as a base for a cheaper air launch missile? Lockheed is trying to hit 14,000 per year in 2025 up from 6,000 - so unit prices are set to fall with the production increase. USAF buying say 2,000 per year gets to take advantage of a large production set to get volume quickly and low prices.
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Indeed, Israel is already doing something very similar with the Rampage.
en.wikipedia.org

Rampage (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Missed this at DSEi 2023....

Rheinmetall Glide Bomb 10 (RDB10). 10kg for launch from the Luna NG UAS. 5-10km range.

https://imgur.com/a/ssTFNJ8
View: https://imgur.com/a/ssTFNJ8


www.edrmagazine.eu

DSEI 2023 - Rheinmetall Luna NG debuts in its final configuration - EDR Magazine

The Luna NG is bigger and heavier compared to its predecessor, the Luna, which has been in service for over two decades with the German Army.
www.edrmagazine.eu www.edrmagazine.eu

Needs funding apparently....but don't all small UAS bombs? Lots of proposals out there, lots of small US deployments of them but little else...
 
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
 
Josh_TN said:
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
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Griffin A is also a glide weapon.
 
Josh_TN said:
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
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Everyone has had a go...

Lockheed Martin Shadow Hawk
Lockheed Martin Scorpion (might be related to above) - Also called Small Smart Weapon
MBDA Saber
Corvid Technologies/L3 Harris Shryke
Textron/Thales Fury
ATK Hatchet
Raytheon Pyros
Raytheon Griffin A
Dynetics Small Glide Munition (GBU-69)
GD-OTS RCGM derived munition
MBDA Viper Strike (GBU-44) - Now out of service
Rheinmetall RDB10

I've excluded the IMI Fastlight as that is a bit larger...plus the Israeli's must have another munition that they use for roof knocking...

Only Boeing missing from the list really...
 
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Josh_TN said:
The majority of those never entered service.
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Thats really my point. And the ones that did entered 'limited service' (US SOCOM 'limited' service is most nations full munitions buy....).

Is the Turkish MAM-C the most successful?
 
timmymagic said:
Thats really my point. And the ones that did entered 'limited service' (US SOCOM 'limited' service is most nations full munitions buy....).

Is the Turkish MAM-C the most successful?
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That would kinda depend on how you define success and what SOCOMs use rate is/was but probably.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
A 3000kg glide bomb?!? frack!

So, Tu22s, Bears, and the other big bombers?
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Most likely, but it's only really made possible by the fact that Ukraine isn't allowed to fire western SAMs over the border... yet, which allows them to fly right up to the border to drop them.
 
Scar said:
Real facts telling the opposite. But still, UMPKs are flying.
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Real facts are shown on liveuamap. The glide bombs are coming exclusively from the Belgorod sector, with Russian aircraft dropping them from the RU side of the border into the Kharkiv area (Liptsy, in this case, is a border town, see below). They have been tried in various other places at times, but only with accompanying RU aircraft losses. The whole purpose of the Kharkiv offensive was to capitalise on the extremely limiting RoEs imposed on Ukraine by effectively base-camping. They can't do that with artillery any more due to RoE changes, but they can still do it with aircraft. I see that changing very shortly though after these FAB-3000 videos circulate some.

liveuamap.com

Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...
liveuamap.com liveuamap.com
1719066111342.png
 
Scar said:
Did you miss this? And this?

Additionally, pay attention how Su-34 in those videos with UMPK diving after their release. They do this for a reason.
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No, and Ukraine was reprimanded for the IL-76 shootdown using a German Patriot, they were actually told of for shooting down a military aircraft of the country attacking them. The first link talks about Russia shooting down their own planes, which is nice but not relevant. In other areas along the front several Su-34s have been lost while glide-bombing. The only reason Russia even still has planes is the RoEs c0ck-blocking targeting inside Russia.
 
Forest Green said:
No, and Ukraine was reprimanded for the IL-76 shootdown using a German Patriot
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This doesn't change the fact of shot down.

Forest Green said:
The first link talks about Russia shooting down their own planes, which is nice but not relevant.
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And you believe this version?! Four aircraft, including fighter-jets and helicopters flying in our own airspace in different directions, with different speeds at different altitudes were shot down by our own RuAD just in two minutes?!

www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Patriot Missile Crew Shot Down Five Russian Aircraft In Two Minutes—And Possibly Forced The Kremlin To Rethink Its Tactics

Eleven aviators died over Bryansk Oblast in what was one of the worst single-day losses for the Russian air force in the nearly 17 months of its wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Scar said:
This doesn't change the fact of shot down.
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Did anyone say it did? I was pointing out that Ukraine was reprimanded for this completely normal and lawful military act because it hadn't been permitted by NATO.
Scar said:
And you believe this version?! Four aircraft, including fighter-jets and helicopters flying in our own airspace in different directions, with different speeds at different altitudes were shot down by our own RuAD just in two minutes?!
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It wouldn't be the first time Russia has had several friendly fire mishaps close together, it had another one only yesterday. But then occasionally Russia bomb themselves, so that probably confuses SAM operators somewhat.
Scar said:
www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Patriot Missile Crew Shot Down Five Russian Aircraft In Two Minutes—And Possibly Forced The Kremlin To Rethink Its Tactics

Eleven aviators died over Bryansk Oblast in what was one of the worst single-day losses for the Russian air force in the nearly 17 months of its wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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I don't know the details of that but they aren't currently allowed to around Kharkiv, otherwise Russian aircraft would be dropping like flies, just as in that incident. Maybe there's different rules for US Patriots vs German ones and all the US ones around around Kyiv possibly.

To be honest these bombs aren't really PGMs anyway, unless the 'P' stands for 'Poorly'.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804571503150743946
View: https://x.com/raging545/status/1804571503150743946
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804570947627745766
View: https://x.com/raging545/status/1804570947627745766
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804617391587950696
View: https://x.com/berlin_bridge/status/1804617391587950696
 
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Scar said:
Sure, because those brainless russkies totally can't into the ECM, SEAD and DEAD. Game constantly changes, you know.
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Like they have their air defence you mean? They can't even guide their bombs properly, see above. Those glide-bombing aircraft would be sitting ducks if they had some SAMs in the area that were permitted to fire across the border.
 
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Scar said:
How does UMPK CEP even related to the topic we're discussing?
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Because this thread is for PGMs, where the 'P' stands for 'Precision' not 'Poorly'.
Scar said:
Don't see any facts backing this bold statement.
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theaviationist.com

New Batch Of Su-34 Fullback Jets Delivered To Russian Air Force As Moscow Offsets Losses

The addition to the fleet comes amid considerable losses of the fighter since the beginning of the war. According to the most recent reports, the Russia
theaviationist.com theaviationist.com
Oryx, the leading open-source intelligence and military research forum, has counted Russia having lost 24 to 26 Su-34s by the end of 2023, with four of them lost during “non-combat related incidents.”
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On Feb. 29, 2024, Western reports quoted Ukrainian military officials claiming to have shot down 11 Russian planes in 11 days, including eight Su-34s, two Su-35s and an A-50 AWACS aircraft, bringing the total number of Fullbacks lost in combat at 34 units.
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You will see even more such 'facts' when RoEs change.
 
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More UGM activity.
www.businessinsider.com

Russia inexplicably dropped another 3 bombs on its own territory, bringing its total reported self-bombings to 103 this year, opposition media says

Russia has previously admitted to accidentally deploying munitions on its own territories, particularly in Belgorod, a region bordering Ukraine.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

Russia inexplicably dropped another 3 bombs on its own territory, bringing its total reported self-bombings to 103 this year, opposition media says​

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Scar said:
Smile emoji won't make your opinion any more stronger.
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How about the links detailing 11 shootdowns in 11 days in Ukraine only a few months ago. Not seeing these glide-bombings anywhere besides Kharkiv area.
Scar said:
BTW, CEP of GSS-munitions greatly depends on the presenсe of ECM in the area, for example. Precision or Poorly?:rolleyes:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804805237502251027
View: https://x.com/clashreport/status/1804805237502251027
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The bombs hit the already flattened rubble in front of the building, with the main building left standing. Not sure it makes the point you were intending.
 
Forest Green said:
How about the links detailing 11 shootdowns in 11 days in Ukraine only a few months ago.
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You mean links like this?
https://twitter.com/x/status/1763137696065581398
View: https://x.com/DefenceU/status/1763137696065581398

This aged not very well for UA-side. Even Western public and bloggers pointed out those reports coming everyday without any proofs was nothing more than a blatant propaganda.

Forest Green said:
Not seeing these glide-bombings anywhere besides Kharkiv area.
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And of course this is because of restrictions, not because of the fact that Kharkiv direction is the top priority for our forces these days.
Forest Green said:
The bombs hit the already flattened rubble in front of the building, with the main building left standing.
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Nice copium you have here. 4 500kg UMPK hit the building at once, but you're sure it was a wrong building.:rolleyes:
 
Scar said:
You mean links like this?
https://twitter.com/x/status/1763137696065581398
View: https://x.com/DefenceU/status/1763137696065581398
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This was well before the Russian Kharkiv offensive, which started on the 10th May, so Eastern means South Eastern, i.e. Luhansk probably, inside Ukraine. It's obviously nothing to do with ECM or Russian aircraft would be flying over Kyiv bombing it.
Scar said:
This aged not very well for UA-side. Even Western public and bloggers pointed out those reports coming everyday without any proofs was nothing more than a blatant propaganda.
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Sure, sure. :D
Scar said:
And of course this is because of restrictions, not because of the fact that Kharkiv direction is the top priority for our forces these days.
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Funny how you've been losing ground there then.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804785457630191718
View: https://x.com/raging545/status/1804785457630191718

Scar said:
Nice copium you have here. 4 500kg UMPK hit the building at once, but you're sure it was a wrong building.:rolleyes:
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It hit the rubble in front of the building, this is just a fact.

1719166076150.png

This is the bomb itself missing:
1719166356049.png

This is the explosion in front of the white building.
1719166002322.png
 
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@Forest Green The tight group of bombs landed one by one on the building which is the object of interest of the recon UAV recording the air-strike and still all of them have missed their target.

Damn, sir, you're breathing in Copium with full lungs. facepalm.jpg
 
Scar said:
@Forest Green The tight group of bombs landed one by one on the building which is the object of interest of the recon UAV recording the air-strike and still all of them have missed their target.

Damn, sir, you're breathing in Copium with full lungs. facepalm.jpg
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The bombs come from behind and to the right of the long white building, they land in the rubble in front of it. The last one hits the building on the left. Watch it in slow motion, this is the first bomb missing and landing in front of the long white building, which they were all meant to hit. The second bomb lands left of it still in the rubble.

1719215147616.png
1719214886976.png
 

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