StandOff & PGM Weapons

TomcatViP said:
Emergency jettison doesn´t arm the bomb. Given the soft ground nature of the impact location (see photo above) and the crater shape that suggest a vertical trajectory at impact, we can guess this bomb was released during a toss bombing maneuver. Those are highly inaccurate with unguided ordonnance and only depends on the pilot professionalism.

It is of no surprise that some bombs end-up on Russian territory like this.
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Bit of a nuisance for anyone who happens to be driving along in a car though.:oops: "Not again!"
 
TomcatViP said:
Emergency jettison doesn´t arm the bomb. Given the soft ground nature of the impact location (see photo above) and the crater shape that suggest a vertical trajectory at impact, we can guess this bomb was released during a toss bombing maneuver. Those are highly inaccurate with unguided ordonnance and only depends on the pilot professionalism.

It is of no surprise that some bombs end-up on Russian territory like this.
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Very small crater size, though.
 
Are they actually PGMs if they're landing next to hypermarkets, assuming that wasn't where they were aimed (i.e. a war crime)?
 
Not sure if this was posted to this thread or not; do not think I’ve seen it. Boeing has a 7.5 billion dollar contract for JDAM kits extending to Feb 2030. It is not clear how many kits that buys, but even accounting for training, repairs, etc and several hundred million dollars of foreign sales, it is hard to imagine that this isn’t a multi year buy approaching or exceedingly 100,000 units. Previous kits cost between 25,000-75,000 depending on the size of the buy and the sophistication of the kit. Presumably these kits will involve jam resistant receivers which might increase price, though the scale of the buy would tend to push unit cost down.

Any chance powered JDAM is part of this?

Also a six year production run of this size must be building out more than 10k units per year, on average.

www.defensenews.com

Boeing wins $7.5 billion contract from US Air Force for guided bombs

The multi-billion dollar contract for Joint Direct Attack Munitions comes at a time when the military is trying to boost production of multiple weapons.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
Josh_TN said:
Not sure if this was posted to this thread or not; do not think I’ve seen it. Boeing has a 7.5 billion dollar contract for JDAM kits extending to Feb 2030. It is not clear how many kits that buys, but even accounting for training, repairs, etc and several hundred million dollars of foreign sales, it is hard to imagine that this isn’t a multi year buy approaching or exceedingly 100,000 units. Previous kits cost between 25,000-75,000 depending on the size of the buy and the sophistication of the kit. Presumably these kits will involve jam resistant receivers which might increase price, though the scale of the buy would tend to push unit cost down.

Any chance powered JDAM is part of this?

Also a six year production run of this size must be building out more than 10k units per year, on average.

www.defensenews.com

Boeing wins $7.5 billion contract from US Air Force for guided bombs

The multi-billion dollar contract for Joint Direct Attack Munitions comes at a time when the military is trying to boost production of multiple weapons.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
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Bear in mind that this is an IDIQ contract, so the quoted contract value is the maximum that can be spent on it, not an actual commitment to spend that much money.
 
TomS said:
Bear in mind that this is an IDIQ contract, so the quoted contract value is the maximum that can be spent on it, not an actual commitment to spend that much money.
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Thanks, I had not noticed that nor am I familiar with the process. Due such contracts have any kind of minimum amount?
 
Josh_TN said:
Thanks, I had not noticed that nor am I familiar with the process. Due such contracts have any kind of minimum amount?
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An IDIQ (indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity) contract is basically a price list/offer sheet from the vendor that has been approved by the government. Once an IDIQ is in place, the government can order off that list whatever it wants and can fund. There are usually minimum guarantee amounts associated with an IDIQ award, which should be the amount that the government is sure to order. The cap is the outer bounds of what the government might order if all its most optimistic plans are funded.
 
TomS said:
An IDIQ (indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity) contract is basically a price list/offer sheet from the vendor that has been approved by the government. Once an IDIQ is in place, the government can order off that list whatever it wants and can fund. There are usually minimum guarantee amounts associated with an IDIQ award, which should be the amount that the government is sure to order. The cap is the outer bounds of what the government might order if all its most optimistic plans are funded.
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Is there any way to determine what the likely floor is for the contract cost?
 
Josh_TN said:
Is there any way to determine what the likely floor is for the contract cost?
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Not immediately. (It might be published somewhere, but I'm not sure where).

The actual contract announcement is here:

www.defense.gov

Contracts for May 24, 2024

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.
www.defense.gov

Fiscal 2022, 2023, and 2024 procurement funds; operation and maintenance funds; research, development, test, and evaluation funds; Navy funds; and Foreign Military Sales funds in the amount of $228,196,923, are being obligated at time of award.
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With the need for large amounts of precision weapons and interceptors, it seems a good solution would be to share some production lines between the branches. We see that with Lockheed pushing their PAC-3 for the Navy, Russia looking like they are using 300mm rockets on their jets, and a different thread talking about air launched ATACMS or PRsM.

Could there be a case for using the GMLRS standard or -ER as a base for a cheaper air launch missile? Lockheed is trying to hit 14,000 per year in 2025 up from 6,000 - so unit prices are set to fall with the production increase. USAF buying say 2,000 per year gets to take advantage of a large production set to get volume quickly and low prices.
 
Bulk buys will lower costs, but this effort seems to be attempting to reduce cost by an order of magnitude, which is going to require other measures. I wonder if this project is connected to ERAM or MACE RFI, or if the lack of responses is what motivated it.
 
Shoes31 said:
With the need for large amounts of precision weapons and interceptors, it seems a good solution would be to share some production lines between the branches. We see that with Lockheed pushing their PAC-3 for the Navy, Russia looking like they are using 300mm rockets on their jets, and a different thread talking about air launched ATACMS or PRsM.

Could there be a case for using the GMLRS standard or -ER as a base for a cheaper air launch missile? Lockheed is trying to hit 14,000 per year in 2025 up from 6,000 - so unit prices are set to fall with the production increase. USAF buying say 2,000 per year gets to take advantage of a large production set to get volume quickly and low prices.
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Indeed, Israel is already doing something very similar with the Rampage.
en.wikipedia.org

Rampage (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Missed this at DSEi 2023....

Rheinmetall Glide Bomb 10 (RDB10). 10kg for launch from the Luna NG UAS. 5-10km range.

https://imgur.com/a/ssTFNJ8
View: https://imgur.com/a/ssTFNJ8


www.edrmagazine.eu

DSEI 2023 - Rheinmetall Luna NG debuts in its final configuration - EDR Magazine

The Luna NG is bigger and heavier compared to its predecessor, the Luna, which has been in service for over two decades with the German Army.
www.edrmagazine.eu www.edrmagazine.eu

Needs funding apparently....but don't all small UAS bombs? Lots of proposals out there, lots of small US deployments of them but little else...
 
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
 
Josh_TN said:
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
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Griffin A is also a glide weapon.
 
Josh_TN said:
There are a couple types of US glide bombs that made it to operational use, though I think only with SOCOM. GBU-69. Viper strike.
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Everyone has had a go...

Lockheed Martin Shadow Hawk
Lockheed Martin Scorpion (might be related to above) - Also called Small Smart Weapon
MBDA Saber
Corvid Technologies/L3 Harris Shryke
Textron/Thales Fury
ATK Hatchet
Raytheon Pyros
Raytheon Griffin A
Dynetics Small Glide Munition (GBU-69)
GD-OTS RCGM derived munition
MBDA Viper Strike (GBU-44) - Now out of service
Rheinmetall RDB10

I've excluded the IMI Fastlight as that is a bit larger...plus the Israeli's must have another munition that they use for roof knocking...

Only Boeing missing from the list really...
 
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Josh_TN said:
The majority of those never entered service.
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Thats really my point. And the ones that did entered 'limited service' (US SOCOM 'limited' service is most nations full munitions buy....).

Is the Turkish MAM-C the most successful?
 
timmymagic said:
Thats really my point. And the ones that did entered 'limited service' (US SOCOM 'limited' service is most nations full munitions buy....).

Is the Turkish MAM-C the most successful?
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That would kinda depend on how you define success and what SOCOMs use rate is/was but probably.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
A 3000kg glide bomb?!? frack!

So, Tu22s, Bears, and the other big bombers?
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Most likely, but it's only really made possible by the fact that Ukraine isn't allowed to fire western SAMs over the border... yet, which allows them to fly right up to the border to drop them.
 
Scar said:
Real facts telling the opposite. But still, UMPKs are flying.
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Real facts are shown on liveuamap. The glide bombs are coming exclusively from the Belgorod sector, with Russian aircraft dropping them from the RU side of the border into the Kharkiv area (Liptsy, in this case, is a border town, see below). They have been tried in various other places at times, but only with accompanying RU aircraft losses. The whole purpose of the Kharkiv offensive was to capitalise on the extremely limiting RoEs imposed on Ukraine by effectively base-camping. They can't do that with artillery any more due to RoE changes, but they can still do it with aircraft. I see that changing very shortly though after these FAB-3000 videos circulate some.

liveuamap.com

Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...
liveuamap.com liveuamap.com
1719066111342.png
 
Scar said:
Did you miss this? And this?

Additionally, pay attention how Su-34 in those videos with UMPK diving after their release. They do this for a reason.
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No, and Ukraine was reprimanded for the IL-76 shootdown using a German Patriot, they were actually told of for shooting down a military aircraft of the country attacking them. The first link talks about Russia shooting down their own planes, which is nice but not relevant. In other areas along the front several Su-34s have been lost while glide-bombing. The only reason Russia even still has planes is the RoEs c0ck-blocking targeting inside Russia.
 
Forest Green said:
No, and Ukraine was reprimanded for the IL-76 shootdown using a German Patriot
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This doesn't change the fact of shot down.

Forest Green said:
The first link talks about Russia shooting down their own planes, which is nice but not relevant.
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And you believe this version?! Four aircraft, including fighter-jets and helicopters flying in our own airspace in different directions, with different speeds at different altitudes were shot down by our own RuAD just in two minutes?!

www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Patriot Missile Crew Shot Down Five Russian Aircraft In Two Minutes—And Possibly Forced The Kremlin To Rethink Its Tactics

Eleven aviators died over Bryansk Oblast in what was one of the worst single-day losses for the Russian air force in the nearly 17 months of its wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Scar said:
This doesn't change the fact of shot down.
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Did anyone say it did? I was pointing out that Ukraine was reprimanded for this completely normal and lawful military act because it hadn't been permitted by NATO.
Scar said:
And you believe this version?! Four aircraft, including fighter-jets and helicopters flying in our own airspace in different directions, with different speeds at different altitudes were shot down by our own RuAD just in two minutes?!
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It wouldn't be the first time Russia has had several friendly fire mishaps close together, it had another one only yesterday. But then occasionally Russia bomb themselves, so that probably confuses SAM operators somewhat.
Scar said:
www.forbes.com

A Ukrainian Patriot Missile Crew Shot Down Five Russian Aircraft In Two Minutes—And Possibly Forced The Kremlin To Rethink Its Tactics

Eleven aviators died over Bryansk Oblast in what was one of the worst single-day losses for the Russian air force in the nearly 17 months of its wider war on Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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I don't know the details of that but they aren't currently allowed to around Kharkiv, otherwise Russian aircraft would be dropping like flies, just as in that incident. Maybe there's different rules for US Patriots vs German ones and all the US ones around around Kyiv possibly.

To be honest these bombs aren't really PGMs anyway, unless the 'P' stands for 'Poorly'.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804571503150743946
View: https://x.com/raging545/status/1804571503150743946
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804570947627745766
View: https://x.com/raging545/status/1804570947627745766
https://twitter.com/x/status/1804617391587950696
View: https://x.com/berlin_bridge/status/1804617391587950696
 
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Scar said:
Sure, because those brainless russkies totally can't into the ECM, SEAD and DEAD. Game constantly changes, you know.
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Like they have their air defence you mean? They can't even guide their bombs properly, see above. Those glide-bombing aircraft would be sitting ducks if they had some SAMs in the area that were permitted to fire across the border.
 
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