SpaceX (general discussion)

Anybody know if hot-staging is supposed to be implemented on SN9 or is it later? No evidence there is but then maybe they're just going to throw 9 up there to test the deluge system then roll it back to incorporate HS.
 
With the last launch, the ground gave way but the legs held up---mostly.

They poured a lot of concrete and put that heavy steel down.

I remember hearing how the ends of Golden Gate were perhaps reinforced too much.

Might the legs be subject to more abuse what with everything else shored up?
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1682211711351242752
View: https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1682211711351242752


There's the cool shot of Booster 9's 33 Raptor 2 engines.

This booster has a multitude of upgrades compared to Booster 7. Hopefully we'll see a Static Fire next week with the steel plate water system in play!

youtube.com/watch?v=ipxhcn…
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Even cooler shot via Jack (@thejackbeyer)!

youtube.com/watch?v=ipxhcn…
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1682213407414448128
View: https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1682213407414448128


It's been worth the wait!
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With the R-7 pad in Kourou moldering…and seeing those pads overbuilt…maybe have a SuperHeavy milkstool above that?

Europe now can make large upper stages in place of Starship (to keep skin in the game) and the infrastructure used to move whole rockets is now used for big hydrogen upper stages to keep folks employed.

SuperHeavy launches these upper stages….and for the same costs as Ariane, Europe can have greater payloads for space solar power and keep pride in their own rocketry.

Elon just helps them put the kibosh on solids—which are so troublesome lately.

Thoughts?

These upper stages are the size of whole rockets of earlier days…so the same transport system used.
 
publiusr said:
With the R-7 pad in Kourou moldering…and seeing those pads overbuilt…maybe have a SuperHeavy milkstool above that?
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in theory it could build but need hell of deluge system, otherwise will the spaceport suffer concrete hurricane
because Soyuz has thrust of 4143 kN Superheavy has 62000 kN thrust...

but what to hell would happen at ESA that they here allow SpaceX build launch pads for Falcon 9 and Starship ???

on Starship 27 it was scrapped do damage during storage
They incorrectly depressurise the tanks leading the dome collapse inside Starship
 
Well it looks like SpaceX's pad upgrades are about to be tested, from TheSpaceBucket:


As SpaceX prepares for the second orbital test flight of Starship, the company is doing a few things differently than the first time. This not only includes physical changes to the booster and pad protection, but also some of the pre launch testing. Prior to the first integrated test flight, SpaceX did a partial thrust static fire of the booster.
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This test ended up giving the company a false sense of confidence in regard to the strength of the launch infrastructure and pad in particular. Now with a full water-cooled steel plate installed, the company is about to attempt the first static fire with these changes. Depending on the results, we could see a launch in the very near future.
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With this in mind, the test will likely still be a partial thrust static fire for a few different reasons. Here I will go more in-depth into the upcoming test, the upgraded pad systems, what to expect in the coming weeks, and more.
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Full article here - https://thespacebucket.com/spacexs-pa...
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Michel Van said:
in theory it could build but need hell of deluge system, otherwise will the spaceport suffer concrete hurricane
because Soyuz has thrust of 4143 kN Superheavy has 62000 kN thrust...

but what to hell would happen at ESA that they here allow SpaceX build launch pads for Falcon 9 and Starship ???
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You would have the milkstool far above the R-7 trench....so the distance from engines to trench bottom would be the same or more as the depth of the whole at Boca.

With a deluge...that might be enough.

SuperHeavy would be all that launched there. Ariane 5/6 size upper stages with hydrogen could go stop SuperHeavy in place of Starship....for awhile at least.

Elon...
leave Twitter alone..
 
The iconic Rocket garden disappear
After Ship 27 now Ship 15 is scrapped, the first Starship that manage suborbital flight.
it likely that other older Ships and Booster will be scrapped also

to make place for upcoming new generation of Starship/superheavy ?
 
Archibald said:
Which is quite appropriate as Musk recently turned into the World Biggest Arsehole. (I'll get my coat...)
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That gave me the mental image of a giant Elon Musk the size of a superheavybooster and its' Starship payload dropping his pants, squatting down on the stool and a Niagra falls sized water deluge blasting up from the stool's base;):D.
 
I'm wondering when we'll see a FH flying with the new extended payload-fairing under development for NRO payloads?
 
Wow, a 9 tons+ GEO comsat ? Last time I checked, Ariane 5 hold the record at 7.5 tons. And Boeing electric propulsion sats were to curb comsat weight downwards...
 
Why water is so important for the next Starship launch, from TheSpaceBucket:


For many years now water deluge systems have been common across the majority of launch sites around the globe. In most cases, they act as a sound suppression system to absorb or deflect acoustic energy generated during a rocket launch. In SpaceX’s case, however, the primary application is a bit different than what you typically see.
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Just days ago we saw some of the initial testing of the new steel plate and water deluge system installed under the orbital launch mount. Here you could see thousands of gallons of water rushing out and flying between the legs of the mount. With the maiden flight causing a decent bit of damage to this exact area, SpaceX believes this new system is overkill and should withstand the force of 33 Raptor engines.
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In the past, there have been a few examples of rockets causing significant damage to the pad, and the addition of water helping solve it. Here I will go more in-depth into the recent testing, the benefits of a water deluge system, the upcoming static fires tests, and more.
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Full article here - https://thespacebucket.com/how-water-...
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Archibald said:
Wow, a 9 tons+ GEO comsat ? Last time I checked, Ariane 5 hold the record at 7.5 tons. And Boeing electric propulsion sats were to curb comsat weight downwards...
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It has electric propulsion and almost 3.5t of prop. The operator knows they are probably not going to replace it soon if ever, so they wanted 20 years of operational life.
 
Spectacular Super Heavy Booster 9 static fire along with new pad protection system test. Four engines shut down during the test:

www.youtube.com

Starship Super Heavy Static Fire

Live views of Starship Super Heavy Booster 9 static fire. Stream will begin a few minutes before ignition. As is the case with all developmental testing, thi...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Replace those four?

Were they in the same position as the ones that failed previously?

Maybe some kind of back pressure flow artifact at certain locations?

Or just bad engines?
 
Sounds like there is a weak spot in the engine design. (Could be something as simple as a connector.) They're obviously passing on the test stand but then failing after installed. It would be interesting to know the root cause(s) of these failures.
 
It may have more to do with how these engines are fed—-Musk really needs to read this:
phys.org

To uncover new fluid flow laws, researchers turn to drinking straws

A team of researchers has uncovered new laws governing the flow of fluids through experiments on a technology thousands of years old: a drinking straw. This knowledge could be useful for improving fluid handling in medical and engineering applications.
phys.org phys.org


A new boundary layer has been discovered—this mostly concerns outer shapes…but can something similar happen internally with piping?
phys.org

Study observes sudden acceleration of flow, generation of new boundary layer

In an experiment on how turbulent boundary layers respond to acceleration in the flow around them, aerospace engineers at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign observed an unexpected internal boundary layer.
phys.org phys.org


I have often been interested in how complex plumbing can be:
phys.org

Stopping storms from creating dangerous urban geysers

During intense rainstorms, residents of urban areas rely on stormwater sewers to keep streets and homes from flooding. But in some cases, air pockets in sewers combine with fast-moving water to produce waterspouts that can reach dozens of feet high and last for several minutes. These so-called...
phys.org phys.org

Could a knot of turbulence be injested?
phys.org

Tempest in a teacup: Physicists make breakthrough in creating turbulence

Turbulence is all around us. It's in the swirl of coffee and milk in a latte, unfurling along the wings of airplanes and the sides of cars, churning the blood in your heart after the valve snaps closed. Yet we still don't fully grasp all of its rules.
phys.org phys.org

We have this idea that rockets don’t have to worry with the same problems jet engines have—-but is that really true?

I’d love to see transparent plumbing similar to what SuperHeavy has.

The engines don’t seem to have a problem tested one at a time…no water-hammer?
en.m.wikipedia.org

Water hammer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
link.springer.com

Comparison of water and cryogenic fluid hammer experiments for rocket engine feed line systems - Experiments in Fluids

Abstract Fluid hammer occurs when a flow in a pipeline is rapidly stopped due to valve closure or shutting down a pump. The resulting pressure wave can reach very high amplitudes, depending on the fluid properties and the flow velocity. In spacecrafts and launchers, where the reduction of weight...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

See the bottom citations here:

Perhaps an answer can come by comparing the findings of the links above…the researchers may not know of each others work.

In short—this may be a plumbing problem—not an engine problem.

More throaty Saturns at one octave…SuperHeavy another. It just needs singing lessons;)

One other thing—bonkers perhaps.

In kerolox systems…kerosene is more dense. Oxygen more dense in hydrolox.

With methalox…there isn’t that much more of a senior, denser partner to help get things moving.

Maybe a dense third fluid to get things going?

Merlins and RS-25 both do well…maybe there is something about methalox engines that make them such a bear.

Could it be---that different propellants require different plumbing lay-outs?

Having a CFD piping test with different density fluid runs might just surprise us.
 
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True...but maybe the piping of later iterations can also change...or maybe the offending positions can have wider conduits--and/or water injection to create more of a "low" to persuade propellants inward?
 

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