SpaceX (general discussion)

[sferrin]

Musk predicts next Starship launch in a “couple months”

SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk said the first integrated test flight of his company's Starship vehicle met his expectations despite various failures.

spacenews.com

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction, unclear cause of engine failure but ruling out debris. I don’t think it’s likely this rocket will fly soon. It may be in need of major redesign and certainly an extensive investigation into the cause of failure. To say nothing of the qualification process. I can’t see this meeting the 2025 date for Artemis III and I can’t predict how much it will cost to get it working right.

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

I don’t think it’s likely this rocket will fly soon. It may be in need of major redesign and certainly an extensive investigation into the cause of failure. To say nothing of the qualification process.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

 

[snne]

Musk predicts next Starship launch in a “couple months”

SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk said the first integrated test flight of his company's Starship vehicle met his expectations despite various failures.

spacenews.com

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction, unclear cause of engine failure but ruling out debris. I don’t think it’s likely this rocket will fly soon. It may be in need of major redesign and certainly an extensive investigation into the cause of failure. To say nothing of the qualification process. I can’t see this meeting the 2025 date for Artemis III and I can’t predict how much it will cost to get it working right.

Artemis III was never going to fly in 2025 anyway... Artemis II is likely to be 2025 in the first place.

Although... I can't deny that a delayed Artemis III does bring the opportunity of an actual new moon race with china which could only be exciting and bring more funding.

There won't be a moon race though. I remeber reading that LM9 will only be available at the beginning of 2040s whilst the Americans already establish and expand a working moon base.

It's a shame that the only large launch vehicle the Chinese have is LM5 which on paper has one third the TLI launch capacity the Falcon Heavy has.

 

[TheKutKu]

Musk predicts next Starship launch in a “couple months”

SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk said the first integrated test flight of his company's Starship vehicle met his expectations despite various failures.

spacenews.com

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction, unclear cause of engine failure but ruling out debris. I don’t think it’s likely this rocket will fly soon. It may be in need of major redesign and certainly an extensive investigation into the cause of failure. To say nothing of the qualification process. I can’t see this meeting the 2025 date for Artemis III and I can’t predict how much it will cost to get it working right.

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

It's arguably worse.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

I'm not too worried about the future of Starship in itself, SpaceX have some of the best aerospace workers in the world, I am worried in the decision making that led to B7 launching on 4/20 causing potential disaster or management problems in the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Musk predicts next Starship launch in a “couple months”

SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk said the first integrated test flight of his company's Starship vehicle met his expectations despite various failures.

spacenews.com

40 seconds longer then anticipated to activate self destruction, unclear cause of engine failure but ruling out debris. I don’t think it’s likely this rocket will fly soon. It may be in need of major redesign and certainly an extensive investigation into the cause of failure. To say nothing of the qualification process. I can’t see this meeting the 2025 date for Artemis III and I can’t predict how much it will cost to get it working right.

Artemis III was never going to fly in 2025 anyway... Artemis II is likely to be 2025 in the first place.

Although... I can't deny that a delayed Artemis III does bring the opportunity of an actual new moon race with china which could only be exciting and bring more funding.

There won't be a moon race though. I remeber reading that LM9 will only be available at the beginning of 2040s whilst the Americans already establish and expand a working moon base.

It's a shame that the only large launch vehicle the Chinese have is LM5 which on paper has one third the TLI launch capacity the Falcon Heavy has.

CZ-10 will fly sooner, I'm still 90% sure Artemis III will land first, but CNSA is publicily dedicated to landing people there before 2030, let's hope it gets the appropriate funding.

 

[sferrin]

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

It's arguably worse.

How do you figure? Adding more detcord is trivial. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only genuine "WTF?" I heard was that the lateral move early on was due to engines out on one side, not because it was planned. Had the engines been on a different side it might have hit the tower. But it didn't. So lesson learned and move on.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

I'm not too worried about the future of Starship in itself, SpaceX have some of the best aerospace workers in the world, I am worried in the decision making that led to B7 launching on 4/20 causing potential disaster or management problems in the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Why? Did you even listen to what was said? The decision making was perfectly reasonable. Hell, even NASA said they think they might launch again in a couple months.

Nelson expects SpaceX to be ready for next Starship launch within months

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson told a House committee that SpaceX’s truncated Starship test flight was not a major setback for the Artemis program.

spacenews.com

 

[TheKutKu]

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

It's arguably worse.

How do you figure? Adding more detcord is trivial. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only genuine "WTF?" I heard was that the lateral move early on was due to engines out on one side, not because it was planned. Had the engines been on a different side it might have hit the tower. But it didn't. So lesson learned and move on.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

I'm not too worried about the future of Starship in itself, SpaceX have some of the best aerospace workers in the world, I am worried in the decision making that led to B7 launching on 4/20 causing potential disaster or management problems in the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Why? Did you even listen to what was said? The decision making was perfectly reasonable. Hell, even NASA said they think they might launch again in a couple months.

Nelson expects SpaceX to be ready for next Starship launch within months

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson told a House committee that SpaceX’s truncated Starship test flight was not a major setback for the Artemis program.

spacenews.com

Sorry for not believing Musk when he said that they didn't expect what he called some "rock tornado" NASA or FAA don't have a sufficiently good track record to uncritically believe either.

 

[F-2]

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

It's arguably worse.

How do you figure? Adding more detcord is trivial. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only genuine "WTF?" I heard was that the lateral move early on was due to engines out on one side, not because it was planned. Had the engines been on a different side it might have hit the tower. But it didn't. So lesson learned and move on.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

I'm not too worried about the future of Starship in itself, SpaceX have some of the best aerospace workers in the world, I am worried in the decision making that led to B7 launching on 4/20 causing potential disaster or management problems in the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Why? Did you even listen to what was said? The decision making was perfectly reasonable. Hell, even NASA said they think they might launch again in a couple months.

Nelson expects SpaceX to be ready for next Starship launch within months

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson told a House committee that SpaceX’s truncated Starship test flight was not a major setback for the Artemis program.

spacenews.com

I feel the implication is this really should have been picked up in the original design process. 40 seconds is a long time, I feel they missed the margin by a lot for what is a critical system.

 

[sferrin]

You're the second person to say this. That is NOT what happened. What actually happened was that the FTS system activated when it was supposed to but it was insufficient to cause the necessary damage for the rocket to come apart quickly. "Needs more detcord" in Elon's words. The 40 seconds was the amount of time between the FTS firing and the tanks depressurizing enough for the structure to fail.

It's arguably worse.

How do you figure? Adding more detcord is trivial. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only genuine "WTF?" I heard was that the lateral move early on was due to engines out on one side, not because it was planned. Had the engines been on a different side it might have hit the tower. But it didn't. So lesson learned and move on.

It's called, "Booster 9". I gotta wonder if any of you pontificating about the future of Starship actually listened (and understood) what was said.

I'm not too worried about the future of Starship in itself, SpaceX have some of the best aerospace workers in the world, I am worried in the decision making that led to B7 launching on 4/20 causing potential disaster or management problems in the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Why? Did you even listen to what was said? The decision making was perfectly reasonable. Hell, even NASA said they think they might launch again in a couple months.

Nelson expects SpaceX to be ready for next Starship launch within months

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson told a House committee that SpaceX’s truncated Starship test flight was not a major setback for the Artemis program.

spacenews.com

Sorry for not believing Musk when he said that they didn't expect what he called some "rock tornado" NASA or FAA don't have a sufficiently good track record to uncritically believe either.

That's tinfoil hat level suspicion. Or you REALLY hate Elon Musk. Why would he risk possibly years worth of delays? What rational reason is there for this?

 

[sferrin]

I feel the implication is this really should have been picked up in the original design process. 40 seconds is a long time, I feel they missed the margin by a lot for what is a critical system.

That's why they call it "20/20 hindsight".

 

[F-2]

I feel the implication is this really should have been picked up in the original design process. 40 seconds is a long time, I feel they missed the margin by a lot for what is a critical system.

That's why they call it "20/20 hindsight".

These sort of issues can reasonably be detected in the design stage well before the start of building the actual hardware. You expect any company to have people who’s full time job is to figure out exactly what a system needs to work under conditions it’s likely to be exposed too. Of course you always have uncertainty, but this seems to be a critical system drastically underperforming under the most basic circumstances it would be expected to be needed. This is a rather poor sign and one would not think this would be something that would require hindsight (this goes for SpaceX and the FAA), are there other systems on Starship that will fail catastrophically that nobody has any idea until it happens. That’s always a possibility but usually we can have reasonable certainty that the most significant systems have been predicted and tested well enough that things will go well. Everything has to be doubted now, how much money and time will it take to get it right?

 

[sferrin]

I feel the implication is this really should have been picked up in the original design process. 40 seconds is a long time, I feel they missed the margin by a lot for what is a critical system.

That's why they call it "20/20 hindsight".

These sort of issues can reasonably be detected in the design stage well before the start of building the actual hardware. You expect any company to have people who’s full time job is to figure out exactly what a system needs to work under conditions it’s likely to be exposed too. Of course you always have uncertainty, but this seems to be a critical system drastically underperforming under the most basic circumstances it would be expected to be needed. This is a rather poor sign and one would not think this would be something that would require hindsight (this goes for SpaceX and the FAA), are there other systems on Starship that will fail catastrophically that nobody has any idea until it happens. That’s always a possibility but usually we can have reasonable certainty that the most significant systems have been predicted and tested well enough that things will go well. Everything has to be doubted now, how much money and time will it take to get it right?

"Everything has to be doubted now"? That's not how it works.

 

[publiusr]

Sorry for not believing Musk when he said that they didn't expect what he called some "rock tornado" NASA or FAA don't have a sufficiently good track record to uncritically believe either.

“Rock Tornado”…hmm:
Elon might want to call this guy:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-marshall-3b164828

Tim Marshall is actually both a Storm Chaser and an engineer who studies their destructive power.

I’d love to see his take on the pad damage.

Haig is in Texas…maybe the Texas tech guys too?

An outsider might be useful.

BTW they have found yet another blue hole off Mexico:

World’s second deepest blue hole of 900 ft discovered in Mexico! | Times of India Travel

Reports have it that they are believed to have been formed in the Ice Age, when the sea level was as low as 100–120 m lower than current levels. According to Livescience, the newly found blue hole is around 900 ft deep, located in Chetumal Bay, off the coast of Mexico. At this depth, this hole spans

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Maybe a derrick ring around that?

What a silo that could make…

 

[Michel Van]

if i count right
The 222th flight of Falcon was success
with Falcon Heavy bringing 3 Sats direct into GEO

 

[edwest4]

FAA sued over SpaceX Starship launch program after April explosion

Five environmental and cultural heritage groups are suing the Federal Aviation Administration over its dealings with SpaceX.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Forest Green]

So basically they want to kill space exploration? Because I can't see any other way of making them happy.

 

[edwest4]

But, but, what about the piping clover and the red knot?



Animals have riiiiiiiiiights !!!!

Seriously, it's not like Cape Kennedy didn't have the same issues in the late 1960s.

 

[Forest Green]

They'll be slightly more piping and a little redder.

 

[Michel Van]

So basically they want to kill space exploration? Because I can't see any other way of making them happy.

They could try, but face US government fury
Because US need Space Flight for the military, Communication and weather prediction.
No way they let environmentalist conservationist win this.

For Starbase depends how far the Government of Texas support Musk.
let me see, what has Elon Musk in Texas ?

Gigafactory with TESLA HQ in Austin,
The Boring Company HQ in Bastrop.
Space X facility near Austin.
Rocket Engine test center in McGregor,
Starbase with Launch complex in Boca Chica.

Good luck environmentalist in Texas, your fighting a lost cause...

 

[Richard N]

Scott Manley commentary about the Starship launch.

View: https://youtu.be/uJTAaNkHv0M?t=541

 

[Flyaway]

FAA sued over SpaceX Starship launch program after April explosion

Five environmental and cultural heritage groups are suing the Federal Aviation Administration over its dealings with SpaceX.

www.nbcnews.com

There’s a good thread on this over on NSF pointing out how nonsensical this legal action is. For example they oppose beech closures but they probably do more to protect the environment than anything else. Also these groups clearly haven’t read the environmental work the FAA have done otherwise their legal action wouldn’t be full of errors as it is.

 

[Richard N]

Highest Fairing Reentry Video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653510335582617600

View: https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1653510335582617600?s=20

 

[Forest Green]

SpaceX launches first expendable Falcon Heavy rocket

Space Coast FL (SPX) May 01, 2023 - After severe weather and technical delays, the ViaSat-3 Americas satellite and two smaller communications satellites, Arcturus and GS-1, launched aboard a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket from Launch Comp

www.spacewar.com

 

[NMaude]

TheSpaceBucket has just put a new video about SpaceX's plans to repair and upgrade the Starship launchpad:

After a lot of speculation, new information from SpaceX and Elon himself has given us a much better idea of the current state and the future of Stage 0. It's now been over a week since Starship lifted off for the first time and caused some significant damage to the pad. This being said, the company seems confident that within a short period of time, a few systems will be in place to properly withstand the power of Starship.

Some of the new information includes more details on the steel plate and water deluge system, why they won't be constructing a flame trench, the state of the tower, and plans for the orbital tank farm, just to name a few. All of which are necessary in order for Starship to continue testing and frequent launches to become a viable future.

The first launch of Starship was as much of a test of the rocket itself as the infrastructure and different systems on the launchpad. With this new information, SpaceX has a lot of work ahead of them as they work to prepare everything for the next attempt. Here I will go more in-depth into new pad details, Elon's thoughts on the initial launch, what to expect in the coming weeks, and more.

 

[sferrin]

Highest Fairing Reentry Video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653510335582617600

View: https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1653510335582617600?s=20

 

[Michel Van]

The clean up of Launch site goes fast
The crater under Launch pad is filled up

But the Repair will take time

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRJAPYwSqyI


Angry Comment on...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFZDeJOs19Y

 

[Archibald]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

 

[Michel Van]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Man that condition like the Alternate History forum...
One of main reason i don't like NSF
This Forum is much better

 

[Archibald]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Man that condition like the Alternate History forum...
One of main reason i don't like NSF
This Forum is much better

NASAspaceflight remains the best space forum out there, but there are a few members who are really giant PITAs. And as usual with human affairs, a a small minority of pissers can do a lot of damage.

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe a more reconciling tone, instead of the language of the gutter could be a first step to improve conditions ?
And maybe it's not always necessary to comment all posts, even when they have a bit of a different opinion ?
And trying to stay closer to a topic perhaps could be a good starting point, too ...

 

[Conspirator]

Highest Fairing Reentry Video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653510335582617600

View: https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1653510335582617600?s=20

that is absolutely insane. air particles hit so hard they combust. and now we have created plasma from the AIR?
what a video to see the contours of the low pressure pocket behind it as well.

 

[NMaude]

TheSpaceBucket has just put out a video about the environmental groups and the lawsuit:

SpaceX's Starship recently lifted off for the first time in Boca Chica Texas. While the company was happy with the results of the test, many others were not. The initial engine ignition was so powerful that it destroyed the concert below before shooting debris in every direction. After a few minutes of flight, the test ended with the activation of the flight termination system and an eventual explosion of both stages.

Just days ago, multiple environmental groups filed a lawsuit against the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), saying that the agency didn't fully analyze the significant environmental and community impacts of the SpaceX launch program. The official document is quoted saying that the launch caused the "destruction of some of the most vital migratory bird habitat in North America, and without required mitigation sufficient to offset those impacts.

Right now, SpaceX is working to repair the pad and get ready for the next launch attempt, however, the results of this suit will likely need to be determined first. Here I will go more in-depth into the reason for these lawsuits, the impact of Starship's first launch, what to expect in the coming weeks, and more.

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653805136676888577

View: https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1653805136676888577

An article reviewing Starship's maiden launch and the next flight with Booster 9 and Ship TBD.

Includes quotes from @elonmusk's pre-flight and post-launch Twitter Spaces events, which were very insightful.

Elon Musk pushes for orbital goal following data gathering objectives during Starship debut - NASASpaceFlight.com

Following the maiden launch of the world’s most powerful rocket, SpaceX hopes to conduct a…

www.nasaspaceflight.com

 

[jmspeedfreak]

I feel the implication is this really should have been picked up in the original design process. 40 seconds is a long time, I feel they missed the margin by a lot for what is a critical system.

That's why they call it "20/20 hindsight".

These sort of issues can reasonably be detected in the design stage well before the start of building the actual hardware. You expect any company to have people who’s full time job is to figure out exactly what a system needs to work under conditions it’s likely to be exposed too. Of course you always have uncertainty, but this seems to be a critical system drastically underperforming under the most basic circumstances it would be expected to be needed. This is a rather poor sign and one would not think this would be something that would require hindsight (this goes for SpaceX and the FAA), are there other systems on Starship that will fail catastrophically that nobody has any idea until it happens. That’s always a possibility but usually we can have reasonable certainty that the most significant systems have been predicted and tested well enough that things will go well. Everything has to be doubted now, how much money and time will it take to get it right?

"Everything has to be doubted now"? That's not how it works.

It really isn't. This is the difference between having decades of engineering program deluvery experience and armchair experts who think they are entitled to an opinion. Folks should get it into their heads:

1) Like all serious endeavours in life Aerospace engineering is far more complex, nuanced and detailed than is obvious even from a serious enthusiasts point of view. Its just not realistic to throw stones about competency based on your opinions unless you are basically in that team and/or part of thr FAA/NASA working groups.

2) This really isn't SpaceX's first rodeo. I sometimes wonder whether people genuinly have the hopes and dreams of this team at heart when they critise or this is just good old fashioned nastiness or envy wrapped up in an intellectual jacket. They are a very experienced team, safety is absolutely not on the chopping board and they are ultra credible in this field. Give them some credit, there have to be compromises in all R&D activities, the key is to make risks as negligible as possible for the maximum payoff and avoid dead-ends.

3) Plenty of arguments about Musk but the bottom line is he's driving this and people should realise that it's not his job to satisfy all your needling or whatabouts.

I say thank goodness someone is giving us the future we were promised in the 80s.

 

[Richard N]

Fairings, nothing more than fairings......

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/oTH3mq7SsK4?feature=share

 

[Michel Van]

Updates - on launch Side

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlkSA3fKyBc

 

[Forest Green]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzgCeOP5YY

 

[topspeed3]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Man that condition like the Alternate History forum...
One of main reason i don't like NSF
This Forum is much better

NSF doesn't tolerate other than main stream thinking.

 

[Archibald]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Man that condition like the Alternate History forum...
One of main reason i don't like NSF
This Forum is much better

NSF doesn't tolerate other than main stream thinking.

I wouldn't say that. The one and only thing that annoys me with the place is: they don't restrain enough a few abrasive SpaceX fanboys, which are too arrogants for my taste.
The most interesting (and quiet) place is the "Historical spaceflight" section. Got a lot of amazing discussions there along the years with a few "heavyweights" of space policy, NASA, and contractors.
NSF chance is that SpaceX is not "historical spaceflight" yet so the annoying idiots are not present in that section.

 

[NMaude]

TheSpaceBucket has just put out a video about the improvements made to the next Starship prototype:

There are a lot of very important differences between the Starship prototype we just saw lift off and the next booster expected to fly. In a recent interview, Elon talked about some of the improvements and why the next flight should be different. So much so that prior to Starship's first flight, SpaceX just wanted the rocket to get in the air no matter the result so they could move on to the improved system.

SpaceX has a very different approach to rocket development and testing than most companies within the space industry. This process involves constant work on prototypes and learning as they go. This means the company ends up with flight-ready test units that aren't even close to the most upgraded and modern prototypes at Starbase.

Combine these physical upgrades and improvements with all the new information gained from Starship's first flight, and the second test flight has the opportunity for much better results. Not to mention the pad upgrades and impact of Stage 0. Here I will go more in-depth into the improvements to Starship's next system, how the new flight data will apply, what to expect in the coming weeks, and more.

 

[topspeed3]

The tentative NASAspaceflight thread has turned into pure idiocy (with the usual hysterical idiot turning it into a personal sandbox, shitposting like a machine gun) and ended locked after three pages.

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

Environmental groups sue FAA over SS approval

forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Man that condition like the Alternate History forum...
One of main reason i don't like NSF
This Forum is much better

NSF doesn't tolerate other than main stream thinking.

I wouldn't say that. The one and only thing that annoys me with the place is: they don't restrain enough a few abrasive SpaceX fanboys, which are too arrogants for my taste.
The most interesting (and quiet) place is the "Historical spaceflight" section. Got a lot of amazing discussions there along the years with a few "heavyweights" of space policy, NASA, and contractors.
NSF chance is that SpaceX is not "historical spaceflight" yet so the annoying idiots are not present in that section.

Main stream includes Nerva and the "space escalator".

 

[Flyaway]

Interview with the Polaris Dawn crew:

View: https://youtu.be/UmZ-M6-u5YU