South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.

[stealthflanker]

doesn't look like Leo 2 to me

TTD

Leopard 2A4

 

[kaiserbill]

The TTD hull is not a Leopard 2 hull.
The question being asked is whether the hull in the video posted earlier, the developmental sub-component hull used to validate various components before the TTD was built, is a Leopard 2 hull.
I am not totally convinced, the engine output as stated in the video is different, as is the rear hull and engine cooling systems placement, just from a brief glance.
Some screenshots from the video:

 

[Mech]

I suspect they added some panels to disguise the fact that it was a loaner LEO2 hull.
They might have looked at a different (COTS) engine model to get around sanctions easier.
If it was sent back to Germany that would also explain why it was never seen again.

The TTD hull is not a Leopard 2 hull.
The question being asked is whether the hull in the video posted earlier, the developmental sub-component hull used to validate various components before the TTD was built, is a Leopard 2 hull.
I am not totally convinced, the engine output as stated in the video is different, as is the rear hull and engine cooling systems placement, just from a brief glance.
Some screenshots from the video:

 

[Graugrun]

This came out a few days ago, still an interesting development by the CSIR -
CSIR develops low-cost add-on armour

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/csir-develops-low-cost-add-on-armour/

 

[Michiel Burger]

The poster says this pic was taken in 1985 at Lohatla,the Army Battle School.Please note the MAN next to the G6 proto.(F/book group[: "Grensoorlog / border war 1966-1989"

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Correct, 85 ABS. Self in the middle, Pretorius and Kruger Flanking.

 

[Graugrun]

I think this belongs in this thread...

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/csir-develops-explosion-detection-system/

 

[Graugrun]

Mbombe's brochure - I believe it has seen combat action already...

 

[stimpy75]

i came along these pics, not truly military related but still a very cool vehicle (and i also liked the movie!)

 

[Herman]

The requirement for a mechanised mobile SPAAG was eventually settled on the ZA-35 on a modified Rooikat chassis.
The G-6 SP artillery was also considered, as pictures out there of a G-6 hull with ZA-35 turret show.
I recall from Helmoed Romer Heitmans books in the late 80's/early '90's that mention was made that a variety of platforms or hulls were looked at, including the Ratel IFV.
I have wondered about it, as the ZA-35 turret is very big (hence the Rooikat and G-6 hulls)

Again, from tanks encyclopedia site, concept drawing from a fellow who worked at Kentron.
I don't know much beyond the above.

The turret on this vehicle looks very similar to the Wildcat twin 30mm SPAAG developd in Germany, in the early eighties, by a group of companies including Krauss-Maffei, Siemens, Hollandse Signaalapparaten, Mauser-Werke, Kuka Wehrtechnik and AEG-Telefunken. The turret was mounted on a modified version of the Transportpanzer 1 (Fuchs) 6x6 vehicle. This turret might have fitted on the Ratel although the German vehicle is about 50cm wider than the Ratel (track 2.54 meters versus 2.08 for the Ratel).

 

[Graugrun]

ADG Mobility is made up of the founders and senior personal of LMT, they have done work for other countries, this is for Serbia.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/adg-mobility-launches-serbian-6x6-armoured-vehicle/

 

[Mech]

Hornet with YGL

 

[Vektor2000]

Hornet with YGL

AGL, designation Y3 in the SANDF

 

[Mech]

Plofadder shooting from RG series.

 

[Mech]

From same youtube account.
Looks like a 81mm fired in direct mode with time delay.
Do they have a version of the M10 60mm Mortar in 81mm?
If not why would they test a PD mortar in this way ?
Would be a very effective infantry fire support weapon.

 

[Mech]

 

[kaiserbill]

Original Ratel replacement prototypes.

 

[Pioneer]

Mbombe's brochure - I believe it has seen combat action already...

The camouflage looks Australian.
Was it proposed or even trialed by the Australian Army?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[alejandrogrossi]

Hi to all
Searching about Olifant MBT, I find this topic.
If I don´t understand wrong (post 81 - Olifant 2 turret could be use on Chienftain tanks) this "what if" may have bee real.
Not good work

 

[Mech]

SA designed Kurjak 6x6

 

[Galvars]

This topic is just a gold mine.

I have a question about SAMIL 100 8x8 prototype. Information about it are almost non existing, only two photos circling in net. I presume there are no publicly available profiles of that vehicle or at least id did not found any. Anyone have some data about dimension of it, length ect.?

 

[kaiserbill]

This topic is just a gold mine.

I have a question about SAMIL 100 8x8 prototype. Information about it are almost non existing, only two photos circling in net. I presume there are no publicly available profiles of that vehicle or at least id did not found any. Anyone have some data about dimension of it, length ect.?

Hello Galvars
I will see what i can find.

 

[Galvars]

Would be much appreciated, thank you.

 

[kaiserbill]

Galvars, I have seen it said that this was manufactured with Samil 100 components, but also that it was MAN components.
So, a bit confusing.
Surviving the Ride has a brief description of it, but no data as far as I can remember.

 

[kaiserbill]

I wonder if there is confusion between the G5 8x8 gun tractor above, said initially to use Samil 100 components, but also said to use MAN components elsewhere, and the Skerpioen 8x8 below, which does use MAN components as far as I am aware.

 

[kaiserbill]

Some more pictures of what looks like the Mfezi based prototype APC posted earlier in the thread, including a more recent one of it in storage somewhere.
Would have made a fine fighting vehicle, as the Mfezi ambulance was very highly rated as a vehicle by all who used it.

 

[Galvars]

Galvars, I have seen it said that this was manufactured with Samil 100 components, but also that it was MAN components.
So, a bit confusing.
Surviving the Ride has a brief description of it, but no data as far as I can remember.

That's pity. Let's improvise, on photo he is towing G5 and tires look about the same size, If I remember correctly those are 14.00x20... so in theory that should give me at least some rudimentary data to calculate approximate dimensions. I will try that.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Mech]

Some new Optimal profile picks

 

[Graugrun]

An update on a previous article on this new anti self-formed fragmentation IED threats - looks like this is the refined (production ready?) version.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/innovative-add-on-armour-package-for-military-vehicles/

 

[cptblackjack]

Off f/book group,poster says this was proto of system(project "banica") and on 2nd/3rd pic the gun was merely tied down to a railway sleeper on a MB guntractor as proof of concept,this circa '84 during "ops thunder chariot",if memory serves,a major convenional excercise at Lohatla battle school.

Could you possibly email me those photos?

 

[curious george]

Off f/book group,poster says this was proto of system(project "banica") and on 2nd/3rd pic the gun was merely tied down to a railway sleeper on a MB guntractor as proof of concept,this circa '84 during "ops thunder chariot",if memory serves,a major convenional excercise at Lohatla battle school.

Could you possibly email me those photos?

It was so long ago, I can't remember which group it was from,whether it still exists or if I am still a member as left a few groups over the years.

I also had a look on my hd trying to see there was anything else but no luck there sorry.

 

[grossouw]

From this declassified Movements Signal for Ops Modular, a request is made of 1 x MAN 8x8. Some pictures of the MAN 8x8 is SADF service have emerged in the past. Wander what it was used for that the SAMIL/Kwevoel 100 could not do? It should have had better mobility in poor soil conditions.

It was probably already answered before as it is a very old post. We used the MAN 8X8s during Modular and Hooper as general cargo carriers as well as their cranes for lifting Olifant power packs. They were still in their German Bundeswehr dark green colours with left hand steering. All labels were in German. In my opinion they didn't do too well; their mobility were worse than the Kwevoels and Samils and their cranes all malfunction after some time.

 

[Paulo Bastos]

I did see several interesting vehicles inside the camp however, amongst them the Brazilian Urutu APC that was also trialled during the development of the Ratel.

I thought the Brazilians even under their Military Dictatorship were quite anti RSA/Apartheid. Maybe it could have been an Urutu captured from Angola or Mozambique? Lusophone connection and all that.

Here is the Urutu in question. From its general pristine condition - no bundu bashing - or battle damage, I assume it was specifically acquired for the Ratel trials. From where and through which channels I do not know.

Where is that vehicle?

 

[grossouw]

Found this pic on a blog, or f/book.If I stumble across it again I'll quiz the owner/poster.

I guess this to be at some undisclosed forward base in either Angola,or the then-SWA(Namibia).Maybe +/- '83 Ops Askari(?)or maybe later,captured FAPLA T's in the forground...

check out left of the T's:
MAN 8 x 8 vehicle(facing) right,with spare just behind cab(obscured by tree)??

We brought these T55s from Angola after Ops Askari in January 1984 and used them for training. This photo has been taken in our base Omuthiya. The MAN in the background was one of our squadron's cargo trucks and two of them were on evaluation.

 

[grossouw]

What vehicle is this? Is it a Centurion ARV or an Olifant ARV development?

What vehicle is this? Is it a Centurion ARV or an Olifant ARV development?

Olifant ARV Mk1A. Picture taken during Ops Modular

 

[grossouw]

Appears to be the Olifant ARV Mk1A, this seems to be on the way to Angola and looks like it is mocked up as a SPAAM to deceive prying eyes?

This pic has Sentinel Projects on it, but I found it on a different site. Mods, is this okay? By all means, perhaps a visit to that Sentinel Projects site may be a good thing.

Olifant ARV we dressed up as missile launch vehicle as part of the deception warfare during the latter part of 1988

 

[grossouw]

And this, look like ARV basis on Comet.

MRV (Military Recovery Vehicle) for the Olifants based on a Comet platform.

 

[Graugrun]

Now this was one project that I did not know about... (April 2005, Janes IDR)

 

[Graugrun]

A detailed article from African Armed Forces (February 1996) on the Chubby system from (RSD) Dorbyl - It talks of the US DoD was then busy testing it under the Foreign Comparative Testing program and presenting it to the US military for purchase. It also explains the different components (it can tow behind it) and how they all work. This is obviously an early version, it has become a very successful seller for Dorbyl, with over 2000 units sold to the US Army alone.

 

[Graugrun]

A nice article from Janes IDR (September 2002) covering the Mechem Iron Eagle, and it's further development by Mechem for Alvis into the Acorn and finally the Scarab.

 

[Graugrun]

Just some info on the upgrade of the Olifants to Mk 1B (Janes IDR December 2003)