Shenyang FC-31 demonstrators / J-35 naval fighter / J-35A land-based version

[Steve Pace]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Looks awefully a lot like a F-22 from this angle.

Sure as hell does -SP

 

[quellish]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Tatatata .... the best for today !!!

Thanks for all of your work Deino! I find myself looking forward to your quality posts

 

[sferrin]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Looks awefully a lot like a F-22 from this angle.

Given that they likely got the entire F-22 and F-35 data sets I'm not surprised.

 

[GTX]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Well it looks real nice for sure. Kind of a mix of F-35 and that YF-22 lookalike PAK-FA concept.

What is it they say about Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery...

 

[Broncazonk]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Anyone notice the dual-tired 'navalized' nose gear configuration?? That's an interesting development.

Bronc

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The single piece full span flap suggest the wings don't fold. So the prototype is not navalized.

 

[Johnbr]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Found this on the net hope it has not bin posted.

 

[Broncazonk]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Found this on the net hope it has not bin posted.

Yep. The Russians say the Chinese will never figure out out to build a folding wing. I've actually read that press-release from Sukhoi, arising out of the Su-33 not going to China, because the Chinese would steal it.

Bronc

P.S. Also, the nose gear seems too short for the towbar and holdback and there is no bracing gear.

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

That's total shit talk from Sukhoi. Not selling additional SU-33 to the Chinese also cost them the Russian navy contract to replace the existing Su-33 used on the Adm. kutnezov. The Russian navy didn't want to bear the entire cost of restarting a production line to build just a few fighters to replace old Su-33s. So they insisted whichever fighter was to replace the old su-33s also has a large foreign order to help defray the cost. Mikoyan had the Indian navy order, Sukhoi didn't have the Chinese navy order. So out with su-33 and in with the mig-29 for the russian carrier.


They effectively conceded the naval market to hitherto moribund mikoyan as result. You can bet they are smarting from that. The fact is the Chinese never seriously wanted the su-33 from Russia because they were confident they could replicate su-33 on their own. So their attitude during the negotiation with Sukhoi was cynical in the extreme.

 

[sferrin]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Anyone notice the dual-tired 'navalized' nose gear configuration?? That's an interesting development.

Bronc

Two wheels means nothing. Lots of fighters have twin wheel nose gear that don't operate off carriers.

 

[flateric]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The Russians say the Chinese will never figure out out to build a folding wing.
I've actually read that press-release from Sukhoi, arising out of the Su-33 not going to China, because the Chinese would steal it.

Source?

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

;D

Besides that is that a Russian K-36 ej-seat seat ???

 

[CJGibson]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

From the Daily Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9647722/China-makes-first-test-flight-of-new-stealth-fighter-jet.html

Chris

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

;D ... funny statement in the last sentence.

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

From the photo, it could just as well be an Martin Baker ejection seat.

 

[Foxglove]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Late but sincere congratulations to the Chinese people on the J-31 first flight! China is now the only nation in the world, except the US, with two 5th gen airframes, but while the Americans are stuck with the F-22 and F-35 for years to come, for the Chinese it's still not the end of the story. Interesting that the "X-ray" drawing shows the aircraft with a single piece canopy, planned for the series version? The main landing gear doors open in a similar way to that of the J-20: they hang down. The nose's serrated edge is also reminiscent of the grey-radomed J-20. Likewise, the ejection seat could be the same as the one used on the J-20-any info on that, Deino?

 

[donnage99]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Late but sincere congratulations to the Chinese people on the J-31 first flight! China is now the only nation in the world, except the US, with two 5th gen airframes, but while the Americans are stuck with the F-22 and F-35 for years to come, for the Chinese it's still not the end of the story

Holy Cowboy, there's another chinese program for 6th generation aircraft?

 

[sferrin]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Late but sincere congratulations to the Chinese people on the J-31 first flight! China is now the only nation in the world, except the US, with two 5th gen airframes, but while the Americans are stuck with the F-22 and F-35 for years to come, for the Chinese it's still not the end of the story

Holy Cowboy, there's another chinese program for 6th generation aircraft?

Another? Where's the first?

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I have no doubt they already have some 6th generation fighter program in progress. But these programs can go on for decades before you see the first hardware.

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Late but sincere congratulations to the Chinese people on the J-31 first flight! China is now the only nation in the world, except the US, with two 5th gen airframes, but while the Americans are stuck with the F-22 and F-35 for years to come, for the Chinese it's still not the end of the story

Holy Cowboy, there's another chinese program for 6th generation aircraft?

Another? Where's the first?

In swoopy shapes flying in various chinese military enthusaist websites. Some of those shapes look like they should be fighting Cylons.

 

[quellish]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

In swoopy shapes flying in various chinese military enthusaist websites. Some of those shapes look like they should be fighting Cylons.

Swoopy shapes are more feasible when you have mastered producing large (stiff) composite structures.
It appears that China is getting a bit better at that.

 

[sferrin]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I have no doubt they already have some 6th generation fighter program in progress. But these programs can go on for decades before you see the first hardware.

Good for you. Where's the evidence?

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

In swoopy shapes flying in various chinese military enthusaist websites. Some of those shapes look like they should be fighting Cylons.

Swoopy shapes are more feasible when you have mastered producing large (stiff) composite structures.
It appears that China is getting a bit better at that.

It was a joke. Those swoopy shapes are fan art drawn with an eye more towards the theatric that the aerodynamic.

 

[donnage99]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I have no doubt they already have some 6th generation fighter program in progress. But these programs can go on for decades before you see the first hardware.

so based on your previous post, you suggesting that china is ahead of the US in term of achieving 6th generation fighter?

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Where the hell did you get this?

 

[Dragon029]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I have no doubt they already have some 6th generation fighter program in progress. But these programs can go on for decades before you see the first hardware.

Good for you. Where's the evidence?

While chuck is perhaps using too-strong terms in his post, I think the simple idea he's putting across is that China would inevitably be looking towards the future; just like anyone else in the industry, they know very well that concepts and studies into things like the F/A-XX are slowly but surely progressing. In turn, they will want to progress as well.

The J-20 and J-31 fighters (assuming they both enter service), will provide China with a lot of working knowledge and experience to perhaps conduct some of their own high-end development - in the past China had been somewhat disadvantaged, being a developing nation. Now that they've sunk their teeth into top-tier aviation, they'll have acquired a taste for what works and what doesn't, as well as the manufacturing, materials and maintenance requirements.

Yes they'll be behind technologically, and quite likely never will get ahead of the US; however, they will want to stay competitive, and so when the US goes 6th gen, China will likely want to be close to follow (assuming similar economics to today).

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

To admit these ongoining comments from both sides either "China once again can only copy" as wella s "now we are ahead of Russia and in the same league as the US" are simply stupid.

Just take it as it is: there are currently two very advanced prototypes flying at CAC and SAC, both were never expected to fly so soon but until they reach operational status (if ever both) will only tell the future ....

As such sit back, take a cup of fine tea and enjoy what's going on ....

Deino

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Please more so close ....

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Is that the real plane or mockup?

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

From The Wall Street Journal "China Real Time Report" blog:

"Taking Off: Implication's of China's Second Stealth Fighter Test Flight"

Source:
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/11/03/taking-off-implications-of-chinas-second-stealth-fighter-test-flight/

By Andrew Erickson and Gabe Collins

China’s fighter aircraft development efforts appeared to take another leap forward after local media reported that Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) had successfully tested its J-31 stealth fighter prototype this week. Following the test flight of a Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) J-20 prototype less than two years ago, the test of the J-31 suggests China could eventually become only the second country behind the U.S. to develop two stealth fighter programs – an important development with serious potential implications for the tactical aircraft export market and well as the U.S. military.

Video and photos posted online Thursday show the J-31 prototype conducting an initial high speed taxi run and 10-minute flight test accompanied by a pair of SAC J-11BS fighters. The J-31’s maiden flight represents the second “unveiling” of a significant new fighter aircraft by SAC in less than a year, the other being the J-16, a two seat multi-role variant of the J-11B, similar to the US F-15E and the Russian Su-30MKK.

China’s defense industry can now sustain multiple overlapping advanced programs. SAC alone is currently working on four major fighter aircraft – the J-31 and the J-16 as well as the J-16’s single seat parent the J-11B and the carrier-based J-15, also based on the J-11B.

Like most modern fighter aircraft, the J-31 will likely be a multi-role combat aircraft capable of employing modern precision munitions in both air-to-air and air-to-surface roles. Despite apparent rapid advancement, however, it will take time for the fighter to reach full operational status. As Xu Guangyu of the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association explains, “there is still a huge gap between China and the US’ fighter jet technologies because we are still testing both the J-20 and the J-31. It might take another couple of years before we can put them on the production line.”

Mr. Xu’s observation raises an interesting question because it is not yet clear if the J-20 and J-31 are intended to complement each other or be competitors. Some Chinese analysts like former Aviation World deputy editor Bai Wei share the view of Western counterparts that they may be complementary as part of a “high-low” mix, with the larger J-20 akin to the F-22 and the smaller J-31 akin to the U.S. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

One factor that suggests the J-20 and J-31 could complement one another is that the J-31 could be modified for use on aircraft carriers in a way the larger J-20 is unlikely to be. Sr. Capt. Li Jie of the PLA Navy (PLAN)’s strategic think tank has been quoted in Western media as stating the J-31 prototype “might become a carrier-based fighter jet” because it is smaller and slimmer than the J-20.

Regional Impacts

The prospect of the J-20 and J-31 becoming China’s mainstay tactical strike fighters during the next decade stands to influence regional defense planning and tactical aircraft export markets. Unveiling the J-31 affirms that, save for jet engines, China’s aerospace sector is now in many ways nearly as advanced as Russia’s and suggests that Russian manufacturers will soon be unable to compete with China’s own fighter manufacturers. Beijing is already the world’s sixth-largest arms exporter, and Chinese aircraft export growth would come largely at Moscow’s expense.

This means Russia will need to shift its weapons exports from China to Chinese neighbors such as Vietnam and India. However, given the defense spending cutbacks in the U.S. and Western Europe, Russian firms will have to compete with the likes of Boeing, Lockheed Martin and BAE in a way they never had to when China (which Western defense firms are largely prohibited from selling to by an embargo) was essentially a captive market for Russian weapons exporters. Chinese e increasingly Therefore, the parallel development of the J-20 and J-31 will provide further impetus for China’s aviation industry to master mass-production of modern high-performance jet engines – its last major obstacle to being able to export tactical aircraft.

The J-31 also stands to meaningfully impact decisions on U.S. defense spending, especially if it ends up being produced in conjunction with the J-20 and they end up being complementary to one another. If the J-31 and J-20 both end up in mass production, China could ultimately achieve parity or perhaps even numerical superiority in the Asia-Pacific region in terms of late-generation fighters deployed. There is a rising probability that China’s rapid advancement in indigenous tactical aircraft design will spark a renewed debate in the U.S. over restarting production of the highly advanced but also highly expensive F-22 Raptor.

Bottom Line: China’s Military Aerospace Industry Nearing Critical Mass

It is extremely significant that China may soon join the U.S. as the only other nation to develop two “low-observable” aircraft simultaneously. China’s defense aerospace sector overall may be moving toward an architectural model in which several distinct poles of expertise develop in Shenyang, Xi’an, and Chengdu and then compete with each other on key big ticket projects. Multiple aviation industry bases with significant development and production capacity, including SAC, allow for domestic competition for key aircraft programs. This can minimize the chances of single-point failures jeopardizing development targets, increase efficiency, and maximize the chances of useful breakthroughs.

It is thus not too early to consider the possibility that China’s aviation industry, despite enduring limitations, may already enjoy some key advantages over Western counterparts. As a latecomer, China can draw on knowledge gleaned from industrial espionage, reverse engineering, and study of foreign systems, standards, and specifications, allowing it to save costs by leapfrogging rather than developing every component itself. Meanwhile, it may benefit from lack of legal obstacles to subsidization and technical diffusion through civil-military integration—a lack that Western contractors arguably benefitted from during their Cold War heyday before stricter regulations emerged in the 1980s and 1990s. China’s military aerospace industry is rapidly approaching critical mass. Continuing to add investment to this growing foundation will allow China’s aviation industry to fully harness the flashes of technical prowess shown when new aircraft like the J-31 take flight.

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Did the Shenyang J-31 come as a total surprise to Western intelligence agencies?

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Did the Shenyang J-31 come as a total surprise to Western intelligence agencies?

No. Shenyang has been kind enough to show off pretty accurate model of the J-31 in a press function 2 years ago. The only major difference is the model showed a single piece, not two piece, canopy. Even before that pretty accurate renderings of J-31 had been floating around on various Chinese military enthusiast web sites.

Also, a partially assembled J-31, barely covered by a tarp, did a highway tour on the back of a heavy road trailor a few month ago.

I think the Chinese went out of their way to make sure the J-31 wasn't a complete surprise.

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I don't recall seeing these photographs of the Shenyang J-31 in this topic.

Source:
http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2012/11/high-quality-images-of-chinese-j-31-f.html

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Source:
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/02/new-pictures-show-second-chinese-stealth-fighter-being-test-flown/

 

[pedrospe]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

These are great pictures,thanks for sharing.


regards

pedro

 

[Avimimus]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Even before that pretty accurate renderings of J-31 had been floating around on various Chinese military enthusiast web sites.

Mind you - all of the 'fan renderings' that float about on PLAAF projects do a pretty good job of creating a noisy disinformation campaign... Of course, a good aeronautical engineer should be able to spot viable projects from highly flawed ones - but it still leaves doubts about most images.

 

[chuck4]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Being approximately Mig-29 sized, having roughly the Mig-29 configuration but without the LEX and the big lift generating beaver tail between the engines, and powered by Mig-29 / Mig- 35 engines, can J-31 outperform or out manuever Mig-29 or Mig-35? My guess is the fuselage have more volume than Mig-29, that might give it substantially greater range than Mig-29, but this won't do the J-31 any favors in manueverability. Based on best available photo showing size of the intakes, can it accommodate a bigger engine?

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Two new images ...

 

[lancer21]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Meant to post this couple of days ago , in DonaldM's post #234, at least the first 2 pics of J-31 are PS, imo they are slightly tilted versions of existing pictures (as posted further up).

 

[lancer21]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Couple of photos of the AVIC stand's J-31 scale model being prepared for the show. Differences, one piece canopy, slightly reshaped area between engines ( no sting aparently). Last pic is the Taishan (WS-13) engine said to be developed specifically for J-31. (rumour is a FC-1 is in testing equipped with a WS-13 at the engine factory)


full set of 25 pics http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2012-11-08/209588_2260843.htm