Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Thanks for that view ! ... especially the final two points are exactly my considerations and even more if that medium-sized fighter could be carrier-capable !

Deino
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!


I knew the 'aircraft' in these pics looked familiar. They reminded me of drawings of what I call an 'F-15' - like design from the late '90s - early 2000s, called the XXJ then. I finally found the drawings on this page here. http://www.geocities.ws/spacetransport/aircraft-xxj.html The page was last updated 10 years ago and, IMHO, the airacrft on the trailer is similar to this XXJ design from a decade or more ago.


Deino said:
Really strange !
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

RSF said:
I'm afraid that I'm underwhelmed by the idea that SAC is somehow blazing it's own way with a new stealth fighter to show the Chinese military establishment its still viable!

While I agree with your assessment of the SAC/CAC rivalery to date I think that you've missed the boat on a critical factor - COST.

Developing stealth fighters is an incredibly expensive business and there is absolutely no way the SAC could be launching into a new program without serious funding from government and military sources in China.

Unless another country is doing the hard R&D for you on their own dime.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Found this today on chinadefense.blogspot. Sorry if it has popped up here before.
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

And this, on paralay. Note that the captions contain the number 18, as of J-18? Deino, help, please. Of interest is the naval version. Also on paralay you can find the purported J-21 instrument panel.
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The last two posted pictures differ dramatically, intakes are completely different. As for the picture in the previous post, it looks very much like a 2 engine version of F-35 drawn in MS Paint.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

In response to Foxglove's reply #85:
flateric identified the same picture as a hoax in reply #45
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I know this topic speaks about J-21,but is this a J-18 ?.
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

this is just fanart and nothing more
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

A new image
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

welcome back)))
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

flateric said:
this is just fanart and nothing more


Thank you my dear Flateric.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The overall frontall profile is extremely similar to that of the J-20.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

It's not a mockup or carrier fighter, because clearly the wings are structurally integral to the fuselage, has no mid span folding capability, and are not readily removable.

No mockup would have bothered with fabricating a single indivisible, awkward piece like this. No structural test prototype would need to have its folding wings installed and locked down for transport.

So we might conclude its a genuine prototype, probably with a fully or mostly composite mid-fuselage with integral wing box

I think the Chinese would very reasonably think in terms of a high-low mix in any future force strategy. Clearly j-10 is not an adaquately basis for any low end that would have to compete with f35. So it is not at all surprising they should complement j20 with a lighter twin engined G5 fighter like the soviets complemented su27 with Mig29.

Also if the conventional wisdom about j20 is right, then the j20 is actually operationally even more like what was intended for su27 than merely a generic air superiority fighter like f22 or f22. Specifically it was meant to perform exotic missions like penetrating enemy held airspace by its combination of great range and stealth, and take out awacs and tankers. In other words, j20's ability to tangle with other G5 fighters was subsidiary to its ability to penetrate defended airspace. This make it all the more important for the Chinese to have a real tactical air superiority fighter meant to fight over the front lines and compete with enemy tactical aviation, like the mig 29 was meant to do. So it ought to be no surprise they came up with something that might seem to be aimed half way between f22 and f35, as mig29 was meant to split the difference between f15 and f16

I will venture to guess this j21 will have substantially lower fuel fraction than f35 in order to achieve better maneuverability, while j20 will have substantially higher fuel fraction than f22 in order to achieve greater range and more sustained supercruise capability.
I will guess the Chinese force structure in, say 2025, will consist of j20 in long range air superiority patrol and deep aerial interdiction role, j21 in swarm front line air superiority role, and j-10 and j-11 in versatile tactical bomb truck roles.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

So I think j20 is doctrinally equivalent to the original soviet concept for su27, and this j21 is doctrinally equivalent to original soviet concept for mig29.


Neither are necessarily meant to be direct matches for their closest use equivalent.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

real or PS? if its real, looks awfully like a lockmart product but with standard looking engines

1x4fg.jpg

D0Guf.jpg
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

When did they start to put circular nozzles and Chinese style nose numbers on the F-22?


:eek:
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Awesome, and I'd bet it's real-it's only logical that once it arrived at its destination after the famed truck journey, they assembled it and are now preparing for flight tests. A lot of similarities to the F-35, barring the large trapezoidal tails and two engines, undercarriage doors painted red Su-27 style.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The Chinese are making a mistake by replicating F-35 from the stolen data; the F-35 is not optimized for A2A and yet another stealth striker leaves the PLA without a successor to the J-11. J-20 is a carrier strike platform, and this thing too will be as slow and sluggish as the F-35.

They should have started from scratch.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I am not sure what about this thing, if real, makes it a striker rather than a fighter. It seems to me the main reason it might resemble F-35 is because both it and the F-35 have similar shaping for stealth. Besides that, nothing about it says a striker.


Also nothing about the J-20 says it's a striker either. It's clearly meant to be extremely maneuverable, and has smallish, F-22 style weapon bays.


I think both J-20 and J-21 were optimized for air-to-air first.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Foxglove said:
Awesome, and I'd bet it's real-it's only logical that once it arrived at its destination after the famed truck journey, they assembled it and are now preparing for flight tests. A lot of similarities to the F-35, barring the large trapezoidal tails and two engines, undercarriage doors painted red Su-27 style.


Huh? If the thing on the truck was meant to fly, why couldn't they have assembled it in the factory and flown it to its destination?


Clearly the thing on the truck was either never meant to fly, or was going somewhere where it couldn't land.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

chuck4 said:
Foxglove said:
Awesome, and I'd bet it's real-it's only logical that once it arrived at its destination after the famed truck journey, they assembled it and are now preparing for flight tests. A lot of similarities to the F-35, barring the large trapezoidal tails and two engines, undercarriage doors painted red Su-27 style.

Huh? If the thing on the truck was meant to fly, why couldn't they have assembled it in the factory and flown it to its destination?

Clearly the thing on the truck was either never meant to fly, or was going somewhere where it couldn't land.
flying an untested aircraft to the testing ground is reckless and dangerous. far safer to truck it to the testing grounds and fly it there, where you have people on hand to record data and to ensure safety.

all the american and european aircraft companies do the same thing. usually the factories are located too near civilian stuff to risk a plane crashing, or security concerns demand testing at specific sites.

if it works for american companies, why the hell wouldn't china do it?


SlowMan said:
The Chinese are making a mistake by replicating F-35 from the stolen data; the F-35 is not optimized for A2A and yet another stealth striker leaves the PLA without a successor to the J-11. J-20 is a carrier strike platform, and this thing too will be as slow and sluggish as the F-35.

They should have started from scratch.

actually, neither aircraft looks to be a replica of the F-35. the J-20 is obviously its own thing, and this one looks far more like a mix of the F-22 and YF-22.

and both aircraft look to be built for different A2A roles, (the J-20 as an interceptor-ish plane, this one as more of a dogfighter)
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Based on the weaponsbay (which appears to be similar to those on the Raptor) I am inclined to think that this bird is tailored towards A2A.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

What is the long dark object that appears to be fitted under the fuselage and extends from just behind the nose gear to somewhere to somewhere roughly between the main gears? Is the an open weapon bay door?

Also, the configuration of the engine nozzles seem to be odd and hard to make out in detail. It looks as if the engine nozzles are shrouded in an extension of the fuselage, and also the nozzles seem quit far apart, farther than on the model we were told to represent the J-21.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Also, PLAAF aircraft all tend to have very plain markings and simply camo patterns. Just national insignia, serial number and a nose number. The flamboyantish logo on the vertical fins would seem out of character.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

chuck4 said:
Also, PLAAF aircraft all tend to have very plain markings and simply camo patterns. Just national insignia, serial number and a nose number. The flamboyantish logo on the vertical fins would seem out of character.

Not lately though... the Golden Helmet winners incorporated somewhat ugly looking eagle's heads on the tails of their J-10s. This one seems pretty well done, comparatively.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Navy Stealth fighter? Look at the nose gear, it looks like it's sized for a launch bar based on the spread of the twin nose wheels.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

chuck4 said:
What is the long dark object that appears to be fitted under the fuselage and extends from just behind the nose gear to somewhere to somewhere roughly between the main gears? Is the an open weapon bay door?

Also, the configuration of the engine nozzles seem to be odd and hard to make out in detail. It looks as if the engine nozzles are shrouded in an extension of the fuselage, and also the nozzles seem quit far apart, farther than on the model we were told to represent the J-21.

Yes, that appears to be an open weapons bay. In the front view I think you can make out the bay doors.

Also, I'm not sure the engines are actually fitted yet. There appear to be basic cloth covers over the rear holes, and it looks to me at least like the plane lacks nozzles.

Anyone else notice that the front view looks ridiculously similar to an F-35?
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

chuck4 said:
Also, PLAAF aircraft all tend to have very plain markings and simply camo patterns. Just national insignia, serial number and a nose number. The flamboyantish logo on the vertical fins would seem out of character.
Do you know what logo that is? There is absolutely nothing odd about it.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

The logo looks like an eagle on top of a shield. Is it the manufacturer's logo?
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

chuck4 said:
Foxglove said:
Awesome, and I'd bet it's real-it's only logical that once it arrived at its destination after the famed truck journey, they assembled it and are now preparing for flight tests. A lot of similarities to the F-35, barring the large trapezoidal tails and two engines, undercarriage doors painted red Su-27 style.


Huh? If the thing on the truck was meant to fly, why couldn't they have assembled it in the factory and flown it to its destination?

You mean like this?

F-2280.jpg
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

yep. remember the 'UFO sightings' when the X-47 was trucked cross country a few months back?
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

photoshop?
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

that looks like the engines are fitted.. though they may not be the final nozzles.

looks very much like the YF-22 in that shot.
 
Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Very close indeed.
 

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Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Slightly larger, scaled up 2x, useful on my 1920x1080 screen :)


Engines aren't fitted - see the big gap around them. Possibly missing actuators, petals etc.
 

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