Shenyang / Chengdu "6th Gen" Aircraft - News and Analysis

njiiaf said:
I thought it was a real photo
Click to expand...
No it's fan art.

六代机高清大图_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

-, 视频播放量 88568、弹幕量 51、点赞数 2604、投硬币枚数 32、收藏人数 325、转发人数 134, 视频作者 高冉减, 作者简介 ，相关视频：迄今为止，最清晰的六代机视频，熊猫！ 六代机第三次试飞，J-36降落的机背清晰画面·上进气口高清可见，太震撼了，身披割裂迷彩试飞中的歼36，成飞歼36新试飞降落（侧，机背视角），六代机试飞从大哥头顶飞过激动爆粗口，歼-36第三次透露最新细节，近距离感受六代机的发动机轰鸣声，极度震撼，歼20s最新图片，疑似换装矩型喷口，全宇宙首发F-47假想图，谁家还没有六代机？
www.bilibili.com
 
Interesting. From the snippet that was posted it looked like a real photo zoomed in.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TomcatViP said:
See Img below:

View attachment 764503

And imagine those diagonal ailerons as vanes.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea, however if I understand correctly, in you scheme the control surface seems to be in the middle of the plane, and no such device is visible on the J-36. What seens to be going on imo, is they redirect the leading edgewise airflow/vortices to the side by opening those angled splitter plates
. 1743058353548.png
 
TomcatViP said:
I have never written what you intend me to say here. You are misunderstanding me.
Click to expand...
On the diagram you showed, the control surface is labeled VBL (if I read it correctly), which modifies how the vortex develops over the aft section of the wing.
1743060123043.png
Apologies if I misread what you meant, but in that case, can you explain how the scheme you mentioned works?
 
Via GyrfalconFC31/SDF:

"New video from bilibili shows J-36's splinter camo."

这是“银杏叶”第三次公开飞行？第六代战机真被我拍到了吗？我发布的第一条视频太有意义_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

第六代战机再次飞越成都上空, 视频播放量 969、弹幕量 0、点赞数 51、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 14、转发人数 0, 视频作者 少年爸萌娃爹, 作者简介 直男、老父亲、内拉祖里、传统媒体人、斯诺克爱好者，相关视频：更多视频曝出！歼36单机试飞 “原地快速掉头”...
www.bilibili.com




1743065690995.png
 
Elysium said:
On the diagram you showed, the control surface is labeled VBL (if I read it correctly), which modifies how the vortex develops over the aft section of the wing.
View attachment 764643
Apologies if I misread what you meant, but in that case, can you explain how the scheme you mentioned works?
Click to expand...

See those pictures as illustrations only for the vortex path. They are not exactly related to our discussion but part of the research literature on Delta wings.
Here VBL stands for Vortex Breakdown

 
Deino said:
Found another source:

微博

随时随地发现新鲜事！微博带你欣赏世界上每一个精彩瞬间，了解每一个幕后故事。分享你想表达的，让全世界都能听到你的心声！
m.weibo.cn
Click to expand...

It would be interesting if some program could stabilize the image so the movements of the controle surfaces could be analyzed.
 
Deino said:
Via GyrfalconFC31/SDF:

"New video from bilibili shows J-36's splinter camo."

这是“银杏叶”第三次公开飞行？第六代战机真被我拍到了吗？我发布的第一条视频太有意义_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

第六代战机再次飞越成都上空, 视频播放量 969、弹幕量 0、点赞数 51、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 14、转发人数 0, 视频作者 少年爸萌娃爹, 作者简介 直男、老父亲、内拉祖里、传统媒体人、斯诺克爱好者，相关视频：更多视频曝出！歼36单机试飞 “原地快速掉头”...
www.bilibili.com




View attachment 764649
Click to expand...
Close enough.

Welcome back T-50-1/902 Black.
 
snne said:
I'd normally call Louis a retard, but that'd be an insult to individuals with cognitive disabilities...

When it comes to PLA-watching, he's done as much disinformation and damage to it as the entire TWZ comments section...

(Hence, pls do not share his posts)
Click to expand...

Louis is an idiot, that said the video itself is fan made/non-official and as a work of enthusiast CGI that is openly flagged as such, it's a decent quality piece of output (Gaoshan CG is the creator).

There are some details of the aircraft which are a bit off, for example the dorsal air intake doesn't have as pronounced of a notch as the real thing, and the engine nozzle/troughs here all seem to be "joined together" whereas in the real thing they seem to have minor recessed gaps on the dorsal side ala YF-23.
 
I have been thinking about this platform and the strategic situation between the U.S. and China a lot recently, particularly as the F-47 seems to be going with a totally different design approach.

My thoughts are that J-36 is a heavy interceptor designed to engage large multi engined U.S. aircraft, most especially bombers.

One of the issues that China would have isolating Taiwan, or really in any major operation that involved a surface force, is that the U.S. can smoother them with cruise missiles from CONUS based bombers regardless of how successful their attacks on regional U.S. bases are. B-21 just makes this worse; now perhaps a bomber can dump glide ordnance without an escort.

J-20 does not solve this problem. It lacks range, and while it can be refueled, the problem is squeezing a Y-20 through the Miyakos or Batanes when there could be 5th gen jump jets, long ranged SAMs, or A2A armed bombers operating there even if you trash every airbase and carrier in the region.

IMO, J-36 is intended to be able to penetrate through hostile 1st chain airspace and then independently set up a BARCAP east of Taiwan to interdict not just AWACS and tankers, but most especially bombers. It needs medium ranged weapons to potentially fight its way in and out, but its primary capability is long ranged sensors and missiles so it can find annd prosecute its own targets without supporting assets (I am guessing stealth HALE UAVs would be part of this process too).

This differs dramatically from US requirements: the mission there is to kill other fighters, but at much longer patrol ranges than the F-22 and much higher performance than the F-35, as well as be able to coordinate with UAVs. Its target set is not large or unmaneuverable; it engages at closer range. To the extent that large weapons are needed for large aircraft, they will be carried by F-15s or maybe even a select number of B-21s. So F-47s payload is strictly smaller BVR AAMs and nothing else.

This makes J-36 more of a heavy fighter/interceptor for use against bombers, in the tradition of WWII twin engined fighters or perhaps more accurately Soviet PVO heavy interceptors like Su-15 or MiG-25. F-47 is a long ranged air superiority machine, more akin to P-51: let’s take a fighter and get more range out of it. Only in this case the adaptive engines are the secret sauce rather than an extra fuel tank.
 
Josh_TN said:
I have been thinking about this platform and the strategic situation between the U.S. and China a lot recently, particularly as the F-47 seems to be going with a totally different design approach.

My thoughts are that J-36 is a heavy interceptor designed to engage large multi engined U.S. aircraft, most especially bombers.

One of the issues that China would have isolating Taiwan, or really in any major operation that involved a surface force, is that the U.S. can smoother them with cruise missiles from CONUS based bombers regardless of how successful their attacks on regional U.S. bases are. B-21 just makes this worse; now perhaps a bomber can dump glide ordnance without an escort.

J-20 does not solve this problem. It lacks range, and while it can be refueled, the problem is squeezing a Y-20 through the Miyakos or Batanes when there could be 5th gen jump jets, long ranged SAMs, or A2A armed bombers operating there even if you trash every airbase and carrier in the region.

IMO, J-36 is intended to be able to penetrate through hostile 1st chain airspace and then independently set up a BARCAP east of Taiwan to interdict not just AWACS and tankers, but most especially bombers. It needs medium ranged weapons to potentially fight its way in and out, but its primary capability is long ranged sensors and missiles so it can find annd prosecute its own targets without supporting assets (I am guessing stealth HALE UAVs would be part of this process too).

This differs dramatically from US requirements: the mission there is to kill other fighters, but at much longer patrol ranges than the F-22 and much higher performance than the F-35, as well as be able to coordinate with UAVs. Its target set is not large or unmaneuverable; it engages at closer range. To the extent that large weapons are needed for large aircraft, they will be carried by F-15s or maybe even a select number of B-21s. So F-47s payload is strictly smaller BVR AAMs and nothing else.

This makes J-36 more of a heavy fighter/interceptor for use against bombers, in the tradition of WWII twin engined fighters or perhaps more accurately Soviet PVO heavy interceptors like Su-15 or MiG-25. F-47 is a long ranged air superiority machine, more akin to P-51: let’s take a fighter and get more range out of it. Only in this case the adaptive engines are the secret sauce rather than an extra fuel tank.
Click to expand...

Considering we do not yet know what the actual characteristics of F-47 is actually like -- i.e.: we know less about its actual final physical characteristics than we do about the Shenyang J-50/J-XDS -- I think caution about making big calls of its role is prudent.

That said, for J-36 it is certainly the case that it is a larger, longer ranged, tactical combat aircraft for the air to air role than basically any other such aircraft that had come before it (or even in history).


From an operational level of war perspective I think you are not wrong -- J-36 is essentially meant to project and contest air superiority/air control at very long ranges, to near 2nd island chain distances.

The end goal of that of course will be to try and defeat the total system of systems air warfare capability of the opfor, and naturally the end-stage goals would be to defeat major force multipliers (tankers, AEW&C, etc) and fires launch platforms (bombers) which will enable the PLA project its own air power more effectively and protect its own air power nodes (air bases, command/control, IADS, etc) from enemy fires.
But to be able to reach that end goal, the J-36 will also need to have the capability to contend and defeat the significant opposing BARCAP and air superiority fighters, including everything from F-47s, F-35s, F-22s, UCAVs/CCAs and everything else. (This is very much similar to how some have described J-20 as an "interceptor" intended to target AEW&C and tankers, yet have omitted to think about how the J-20 would contend with the fighter BARCAP and escorts such AEW&C and tankers would have)

Putting it another way, J-36s prosecuting and targeting bombers, AEW&C, tankers et al, is the "easier" part of their mission, but the more challenging part, and the part that they are more oriented towards, is to contest and defeat opposing air superiority systems and platforms at long range.

So I see J-36's role as similar to what you described for F-47, except with an even greater emphasis on range and size/payload and a greater focus on system of systems approaches.
 


Write your reply...

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom