Sikorsky licensed S-70 to Shorts, 3/84-2/85 for First Thoughts on Puma Replacement; then 5/86-2/94 licensed WS-70L to Yeovil (under various names) for Puma Second Thoughts and for RSa.AF, who made a Provisional Agreement for 88, 7/88. That lapsed (one writer asserts Israel lobbying in US against its offensive armament. KSA ordered NH90...which lapsed. In 2015 KSA took an S-70 licence, which lapsed). For WS-70L (Sikorsky's then-Owner) UTC took an RTM322 licence for (their) P&W(C). So, in Whiff realm...if KSA had taken WS-70L, I suggest, so would RAF.
9/2009 order would not have been placed on Eurocopter Brasov for 28 (to be 24) rebuilds as Puma HC2 (FOC 2015). That was reported as £260Mn. Thereabouts Sweden bought 15 UH-60M with a support package, for £330Mn.
F-15s with already 50-year service life for the design, with 20-30 more to go... and so on.
The 1970s saw aircraft design reach a technological plateau for a long time (we've had mainly incremental design since, with systems upgrades into existing excellent airframes being the main advancements.
zeb: BAe as a Land Bank. No suspicion, specific purpose. Govt unloaded Royal Ordnance and Rover Group to them solely, specifically so. They set up a Property Manager, Arlington, initially to handle Saudi Air Defence Scheme infrastructure, then bought Liverpool Airport (?!).
Never did quite understand that one... they ended up selling at least part of it to Peel Holdings who have done a similar thing with the docks around the Mersey...
Joli succès pour Airbus Helicopters, qui fournira 14 hélicoptères H225M Caracal aux forces spéciales néerlandaises et continue une histoire entamée il y a près de trois décennies avec le Cougar. Le montant du marché n'a pas été détaillé par le ministère de la Défense.
Very interesting, as having dealings with Dutch Helicopter Command and dutch helo inudstry / National Research Lab as a whole in the last 2 decades, original long term plan was to retire the Cougars, and replace with NH90 TTH (we talking decade ago).
Speaking of Cougar, here are my photos from a fortnight ago of pair of RNLAF AS532UT Cougars passing through here RAF Mildenhall en route up to Carlisle Airport and then to the RAF Spadeedam Ranges, where their CH-47F and AH-64E Apaches would join them after transiting through RAF Northolt.
Oddly enough, a couple of weeks ago, I was discussing unread (or unfinished) books with somebody and we wondered what the aviation equivalent of 'A Brief History of Time' might be.
The contract specifically pertains to support for the Puma Mk2 helicopter, with the current agreement being extended for a period of up to three years to March 2028.
Ok, so its Sunday morning and maybe I'm letting my brain wander too far but with this development (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/c-130-hercules-projects.2035/page-5#post-441331) I wonder if things are setting up nicely for some brasshats to say "we want some CV-22Bs?" to get a big VTOL lifter, SAS insertion and carrier COD rolled into one?
As for the amount of light generated, was it more than a chopper working at night in the Arabian Gulf/Afghanistan today? Apparently the stray sand particles when struck by the rotor blades spark and light up. While quite spectacular on wide exposure, low speed film, in reality it is still pretty dark. The Rotodyne did not emit spectacular amounts of light from it's tip jets. It would have been quite workable at night IMO.
Yes. It appears that the only RAAF rotary wing aircraft are some contracted AW139s for SAR. The Army got all the battlefield helicopters when the Chinooks came back from their brief holiday in the early 1990s. The Black Hawks came in (to the Army), the Chinooks were retired (by the RAAF), and then it became obvious the Black Hawks couldn't do all the missions, so the Chinooks came back (this time to the Army). Probably for the best -- the Chinooks were almost exclusively for Army support anyway, so why not put them under Army control?
The AAC Bell 212 and RAF 84 Sqn Bell 412 are whole different kettle of fish they are COMR (Commercially Operated Military Registered) as in not front line battlefield helos and are supplied by CObham Helicopter Services (formerly FB Heliservices). The Army Bell 212 are used for Jungle support in Brunei of our Ghurka troops there, and also used for some trianing conversion at Middle Wallop 84 Sqn Bell 412 are providing SAR and other utility tasks for British Forces Cyprus. My photos below of both 84 Sqn Bell 412 and AAC bell 212 at Helitech Exhibtion 2011 in my neck of the woods at Imperial War Museum Duxford.
MLASS is for the MH-60M DAP for some operational environments. I am not fond of the new pylon shown as it makes the defensive gunner weapons useless but for firing forward and are only applicable if you are using the H-60 as an attack airframe (like the current version used on MH-60M DAP). The upward angled stores station is for either the Korean or Japanese H-60 used for (C)SAR.
The US Army UH-60 fleet did have ESSS with the ability to carry ERFS tanks (shown above), although they only rarely carried four tanks. However the USAF HH-60 early in the program did, I think, have a different set of arms that held the external tank higher so that the door gunners had better ability to shoot down.
Similar to that of the Japanese version of the H-60
Loving the cat fight thats broken out at DSEI, Lockheed claimed that it was the only NMH competitor with a sufficiently ruggedized aircraft as the Black Hawk had been designed from the ground up as a combat aircraft, Leonardo responded that the AW149 had been designed with ballistic protection for the cabin and rotors and to survive hard landings. Lockheed then said, ahh but in our aircraft the pilot can be stretchered into the back cabin by lowering his seat whereas in your aircraft they would have to be transitioned via the outside of the aircraft, to which Leonardo replied if your pilots been shot you've failed to provide ballistic protection and you have a more urgent problem than stretchering them into the rear of the cabin!
Nope our COMR Bell 212 and 412 are civilian helicopters built from scratch upward have no combat value nor would they be used as such.
They are Not armed
They do not have any Defense Aided Suites
They would not be used in combat...
you know there are also civilian Bell Hueys assembled from day one for the commercial marketplace from the early start Bell 204/205/212/412.
Bearing in mind our Civil Aviation Authority do not like to entertain ex Military a/c to be sued commercially and the Draken Europe ( Cobham Helicopters and formerly FB Heliservices) helos are civilian …
That would make it more sensible ( i know that never works) for the RAF to go Blackhawk to be able to share best practice / exchanges and ops with the US.
I'm sure we've also signed on as partners to valour?? so crews can be embedded with US army / USAF to get that when it matures.
We've also got to be lokking longer term to replace Merlin? with the Marine wanting to act more special forces i can see them wanting the Valour as well as they have said they want longer range ops.
That would make it more sensible ( i know that never works) for the RAF to go Blackhawk to be able to share best practice / exchanges and ops with the US.
I'm sure we've also signed on as partners to valour?? so crews can be embedded with US army / USAF to get that when it matures.
We've also got to be lokking longer term to replace Merlin? with the Marine wanting to act more special forces i can see them wanting the Valour as well as they have said they want longer range ops.
Exchange programs between AAC and RAF with the US Army has been happening for over 5 decades, , as well as RAF helo pilots on exchange to USAF REscue Units flying HH-60G Pave Hawk. but its mainly instructor officer postings especially on AH-64A/D/E
The 3rd AAC exchange officer to the US Army in 1980/81 Major N Ryan managed to fly quite a few hours in the then new UH-60A Blackhawk at Fort Rucker.
One of the famous test pilots (ex Leonardo and think Skyfall) who was ex RAF Chinook pilot went on exchange to EDwards AFB late 80s to early 90s to the then Army Aviation Test Directorate (before it got moved to Rucker) flew UH-60 on test pilot instruction amongst other types there. He was featured in RAF News newspaper in 1990/91 along with other RAF officers on exchange around USA, one of which ended up in charge of the F-15E Strike Eagle test program.
The cynic in me would say - why buy a design that's basically 10 years younger than the Puma?
Yes its been continuously improved and modified ever since - but then so have the Pumas.
And it's not as if ordering Blackhawks from LM is going to earn brownie points with Bell for Valours...
Bearing in mind our Civil Aviation Authority do not like to entertain ex Military a/c to be sued commercially and the Draken Europe ( Cobham Helicopters and formerly FB Heliservices) helos are civilian …
The cynic in me would say - why buy a design that's basically 10 years younger than the Puma?
Yes its been continuously improved and modified ever since - but then so have the Pumas.
It's just interim so focus should be on cost after getting over a minimal capability hurdle. Plus the joys of "social value" but that gets accounted for in cost.
1) Cheaper to operate civilian a/c thus releasing front line a/c to do what they have to do and COMR a/c are not meant to be used in combat. So why the hell are would we want to fit DAS add extra weight as they I repeat are civil helicopters assembled from day one at the Fort Worth Factory. Example the Bell 212 used by Army Air Corps were all civilian to start off with, take this one
assembled built civilian standards sold to Bristows in 1971
2) Our military has shrank in over 3 decades, and especially with options for change , and Public Finance Initiative (PFI) in the early 1990s onwards...
So in the early 90s (there is a reason why i have used this year), we had across the board in the armed services
Royal Navy (I'll start with senior service lol) Fleet Air Arm
Front line ASW/ASuW/Royal Marines Support
Aerospatiale Gazelle HT1 for flying training with 705 Naval Air Squadron
Westland Lynx HAS 6
Westland Sea King HAS6
Westland Commando Mk4
Royal Marines 3rd Brigade Air Squadron which became 847 Naval Air Squadron
Westland Lynx AH7
Westland Aerospatiale Gazelle
Army Air Corps
Agusta A109 Hirundo for 8 Flight Special Forces (2 captured during thee Falklands War and then additional two from civilian world)
Aerospatiale Alouette II - Cyprus Garrison
Westland Lynx AH7
Westland Aerospatiale Gazelle of various Mks
Westland Battlefield Lynx AH9
Gazelle used for flying training by contracted out Bristow Helicopters LTd
Westland Scout AH1
Royal Air Force
Boeing CHinook HC1/HC2
Aerospatiale Westland GAzelle HT3 for flying training at Shawbury
Aerospatiale Westland GAzelle HCC4 32 (Royal Squadron)
Westland Wessex 84 Sqn RAF AKrotiri, Cyprus
Westland Wessex HAR3 - 28 (Army CoOp) Sqn RAF SEk Kong, Hong Kong, 72 SQn, RAF Aldergrove, Northern Ireland
Westland Wessex HT multi engine and aircrewman training at RAF Shawbury
Westland Wessex Queens Flight
Aerospatiale / Westland Puma HC1
Westland Sea King HAR3 for Search and Rescue
So the government decided that with legacy ageing airframes and wanting to be post cold war budget, decided on the following
Flying training could be outsourced / privatised
VIP such as Queens Flight and 32 Sqn defo could go commercial
The garrisons in Belize and Brunei could go to commercial sector (especially the latter as the handover of HK, the Brunei support fell under 660 Sqn Army Air Corps based at Sek Kong with unit withdrawing from Hong Kong and the Scout retired).
Here is what happened after the above
- 1995 onwards 32 Squadron became 32 (Royal) Squadron , retired Gazelle and leased an AS355F1 from then McAlpines (became Eurocopter Uk and Airbus Helicopters UK today) and then contract changed hands with AgustaWestland providing the Aw109E Power (my photo below from Royal International Air Tattoo 2011) and now AW109s GrandNew ook the Wessex from the Queens Flight.. Wessex was then retired and the Queens (now King) Helicopter Flight under the Royal Household took delivery of Sikorsky S-76C+ from 1998 onwards and since 2009 its been S-76C++
-1997 the Defence Helicopter Flying School was established with then FBS Heliservices - FR Aviation, Bristow and Serco winning contract to provide flying training across all three services with the AS350BB SQuirrel HT1 and Bell 412 Griffin HT1. Thus the Gazelles used in the RAF, AAC and RN FAA were retired and same with the Wessex at Shawbury. the three flying training squadrons at the different bases, re formed at one - Shawbury. The Search And Rescue Training Unit (SARTU) at RAf Valley in Wales stayed there and took the Griffin for multi engine and crewman training.
My photos of DHFS Squirrel and Griffin at RAF Waddington Air Show 2011
- 2017 to this day, DHFS is gone and UK Military Flying Training System (UKMFTS) is run by Ascent Flying Training using Airbus Helicopters H135 Juno and H145 Jupiter for rotary flying training so my photo below from Royal International Air Tattoo 2017
At one point Serco pulled out and it was FB Heliservices all the way
FB Heliservices provided the Bell 212 for the Belize Garrison , replacing the Gazelle, and also adter 1994, the RAf Puma detachment came abck to UK along with Harrier GR3 (the type being retired as HArrier GR5 came into service in early 90s anyhow). After handover of HK, 660 Squadron had come back here and disbanded and reformed under the Defence Helicopter Flying School, so Brunei Garrison ended up with FB Heliservices Bell 212 so here is my photo below from Helitech 2011 Exhibition in my neighbourhood at IWM Duxford
2003, the very last Westland Wessexs were retired as they were still serving with 84 Squadron RAF Akrotiri Cyrpus and FB Heliservices supplied Bell 412, my photo below also from Helitech 2011 Exhibition in my neighbourhood at IWM Duxford
My point is they are civilian helicopters period and were not going to see day of light in battle,
1) Cheaper to operate civilian a/c thus releasing front line a/c to do what they have to do and COMR a/c are not meant to be used in combat. So why the hell are would we want to fit DAS add extra weight as they I repeat are civil helicopters assembled from day one at the Fort Worth Factory. Example the Bell 212 used by Army Air Corps were all civilian to start off with, take this one
assembled built civilian standards sold to Bristows in 1971
2) Our military has shrank in over 3 decades, and especially with options for change , and Public Finance Initiative (PFI) in the early 1990s onwards...
So in the early 90s (there is a reason why i have used this year), we had across the board in the armed services
Royal Navy (I'll start with senior service lol) Fleet Air Arm
Front line ASW/ASuW/Royal Marines Support
Aerospatiale Gazelle HT1 for flying training with 705 Naval Air Squadron
Westland Lynx HAS 6
Westland Sea King HAS6
Westland Commando Mk4
Royal Marines 3rd Brigade Air Squadron which became 847 Naval Air Squadron
Westland Lynx AH7
Westland Aerospatiale Gazelle
Army Air Corps
Agusta A109 Hirundo for 8 Flight Special Forces (2 captured during thee Falklands War and then additional two from civilian world)
Aerospatiale Alouette II - Cyprus Garrison
Westland Lynx AH7
Westland Aerospatiale Gazelle of various Mks
Westland Battlefield Lynx AH9
Gazelle used for flying training by contracted out Bristow Helicopters LTd
Westland Scout AH1
Royal Air Force
Boeing CHinook HC1/HC2
Aerospatiale Westland GAzelle HT3 for flying training at Shawbury
Aerospatiale Westland GAzelle HCC4 32 (Royal Squadron)
Westland Wessex 84 Sqn RAF AKrotiri, Cyprus
Westland Wessex HAR3 - 28 (Army CoOp) Sqn RAF SEk Kong, Hong Kong, 72 SQn, RAF Aldergrove, Northern Ireland
Westland Wessex HT multi engine and aircrewman training at RAF Shawbury
Westland Wessex Queens Flight
Aerospatiale / Westland Puma HC1
Westland Sea King HAR3 for Search and Rescue
So the government decided that with legacy ageing airframes and wanting to be post cold war budget, decided on the following
Not sure I agree with that being cheaper, but I definitely see the need to reduce the overall number of aircraft types. There's a reason the US basically flies nothing but Blackhawks for the "squad sized helicopters"!
That I would strongly disagree with, unless the Queen wasn't the one with the nuclear release codes under the UK governmental setup? You need some dedicated specialty communications gear in the Boss's aircraft. Just in case.
I would also expect a full set of countermeasures on general principles of not letting your head of government be an easy target when flying. Which is what makes the aircraft used by the POTUS so (expletives deleted) expensive. USAF won't admit it, but I fully believe that the VC-25s have more radar jammer output power than at least one B-52, plus a pile of different IRCM. Marines won't admit it either, but the DIRCM blisters are obvious on the helos.
The garrisons in Belize and Brunei could go to commercial sector (especially the latter as the handover of HK, the Brunei support fell under 660 Sqn Army Air Corps based at Sek Kong with unit withdrawing from Hong Kong and the Scout retired).
Sure, if there's nobody shooting at you in those locations, you don't need the full defensive suites. And I can see maybe using a helicopter more optimized for SAR and air ambulance work if that's the primary thing those birds fly.
Hueys were originally designed as something between flying jeeps and flying Higgins Boats, intended to go into combat. The single largest vulnerable point on one is the pilot(s), which are redundant. The engine and transmission are hard to hit, especially from the front. The tail rotor drive shaft is also relatively hard to hit.
Do the Hueys have all the fancy defensive systems that you'd expect for a modern combat helo, to deal with MANPADS? No. But some terrorist asshole with even a DShK isn't going to shoot one down easily. And some terrorist asshole with only a 7.62mm machine gun shouldn't even try.
By John Erath No, this will not be another House of the Dragon post. Although, given the number of views that one received, perhaps I should focus on covering TV rather than nuclear weapons. In this case, the subject is the royal succession in the United Kingdom and its nuclear command and...
Not sure I agree with that being cheaper, but I definitely see the need to reduce the overall number of aircraft types. There's a reason the US basically flies nothing but Blackhawks for the "squad sized helicopters"!
That I would strongly disagree with, unless the Queen wasn't the one with the nuclear release codes under the UK governmental setup? You need some dedicated specialty communications gear in the Boss's aircraft. Just in case.
I would also expect a full set of countermeasures on general principles of not letting your head of government be an easy target when flying. Which is what makes the aircraft used by the POTUS so (expletives deleted) expensive. USAF won't admit it, but I fully believe that the VC-25s have more radar jammer output power than at least one B-52, plus a pile of different IRCM. Marines won't admit it either, but the DIRCM blisters are obvious on the helos.
Sure, if there's nobody shooting at you in those locations, you don't need the full defensive suites. And I can see maybe using a helicopter more optimized for SAR and air ambulance work if that's the primary thing those birds fly.
I'm from the US.
Hueys were originally designed as something between flying jeeps and flying Higgins Boats, intended to go into combat. The single largest vulnerable point on one is the pilot(s), which are redundant. The engine and transmission are hard to hit, especially from the front. The tail rotor drive shaft is also relatively hard to hit.
Do the Hueys have all the fancy defensive systems that you'd expect for a modern combat helo, to deal with MANPADS? No. But some terrorist asshole with even a DShK isn't going to shoot one down easily. And some terrorist asshole with only a 7.62mm machine gun shouldn't even try.
Thanks
the only a/c for ferrying distinguished visitors in the 32(Royal) Squadron that had DIRCM , DAS were the now retired BAE 146 and HS125 …because they did fly abroad and at times into conflict areas with senior RAF or other military staff. like what the 89th Airlift Wing does ..as an example. our PM and Royal Family tend to fly commercial like British Airways as an example To your side of the pond. it’s rare they will fly on say 101 Squadron Airbus A330 Voyager (again that’s a AirTanker Private finance initiative) or even use corporate jet from a corporate operator for hops into Europe or other parts of the UK. A lot of its to do with cost, and public image.
The Queen does not hold the nuclear codes, none of the Royal family have ever done, it be No 10, the PM I and the UK general public do not know how the protocol or procedures for authorizing Trident launch..
Believe me we have threats from half century of threats from the likes of the IRA / PIRA …and sadly with the assassination of the late Lord Mountbatten, who as you recall was blown up with his family on a boat, so we take security of the royals and leaders ver seriously.
Back on topic, you talk about counter measures, there is one COMR aircraft which is on the replacement by the NMH, that does have some DIRCM, or so Airbus Helicopters AS365N3 Dauphin for supporting our SAS belonging To 658 Squadron.
The Unit used to be 8 Flight and operated the captured Argentinian A109 Hirundo. I have seen and stood next to one of them, grey and white one while it was undergoing maintenance and a very well knowe civilian helicopter operator 21 years ago. It had a lot of lumps and bumps, DIRCM, chaff flares etc. Said helicopter is on display at the Army Air Corps museum of flying.
but bear this in mind these helos would not be like your Nightstalkers MH-60K/M, A/MH-6 and fly into enemy territory. The self protection; is against thr Bad guys on home territory.
The British media wryly dub them ‚Blue Thunder‘ because they are painted blue, and seen during response to the London Bridge terror attack 2017 and the Ariadne Grande concert
It is one of just five similar helicopters tasked with supporting a special unit within the Special Air Service that focuses on domestic counter-terror ops.
www.thedrive.com
i have seen one on my travels at RAF Mildenhall a decade ago, and apparently the other year one transited through my local Airport here…Marshalls Cabridge (but I was abroad) .
By John Erath No, this will not be another House of the Dragon post. Although, given the number of views that one received, perhaps I should focus on covering TV rather than nuclear weapons. In this case, the subject is the royal succession in the United Kingdom and its nuclear command and...
So while The Royal Personage's helicopter doesn't need the command and control setup, the one used by the person with the release authority does. Depending on setup, it may be cheaper to fit out all the VVIP helos that way, so you don't have to maintain two separate pools for the Royal and the PM. And of course all the countermeasures you'd expect for a Head of State transport, which is why I don't think that should be a commercial helo.
I can make further arguments along that line for the helos dedicated to supporting SAS/SBS/etc. They should have all the countermeasures, but shouldn't necessarily all be the same type. If they're working in an area where Mi8/Mi24s dominate like eastern Europe or the Middle East, they should have an appropriately set up Mi8/Mi24 for cover. Working in most of Europe? one of the Eurocopter large air ambulances (or at least something that looks like the large air ambulances), or one of the oil rig helos (or something that looks like an oil rig helo). etc. Whatever is most commonly flying in the area. Yes, that gets expensive. Being sneaky always does.
But in terms of simplifying the rest of the UK's medium lift helicopters, sure, settle in on one type and buy a crapton of them. Like what the US did with the H-60 series. You will still want and need heavier lift helicopters, there's a reason the US Army flies both Blackhawks and Chinooks and the USN flies Seahawks and H-53s. So let the RAF have their Chinooks, and replace all their smaller helicopters with whatever the Army and RN buy for their medium lift helicopters. Gives you a much larger spare parts pool.
So while The Royal Personage's helicopter doesn't need the command and control setup, the one used by the person with the release authority does. Depending on setup, it may be cheaper to fit out all the VVIP helos that way, so you don't have to maintain two separate pools for the Royal and the PM. And of course all the countermeasures you'd expect for a Head of State transport, which is why I don't think that should be a commercial helo.
I can make further arguments along that line for the helos dedicated to supporting SAS/SBS/etc. They should have all the countermeasures, but shouldn't necessarily all be the same type. If they're working in an area where Mi8/Mi24s dominate like eastern Europe or the Middle East, they should have an appropriately set up Mi8/Mi24 for cover. Working in most of Europe? one of the Eurocopter large air ambulances (or at least something that looks like the large air ambulances), or one of the oil rig helos (or something that looks like an oil rig helo). etc. Whatever is most commonly flying in the area. Yes, that gets expensive. Being sneaky always does.
But in terms of simplifying the rest of the UK's medium lift helicopters, sure, settle in on one type and buy a crapton of them. Like what the US did with the H-60 series. You will still want and need heavier lift helicopters, there's a reason the US Army flies both Blackhawks and Chinooks and the USN flies Seahawks and H-53s. So let the RAF have their Chinooks, and replace all their smaller helicopters with whatever the Army and RN buy for their medium lift helicopters. Gives you a much larger spare parts pool.
To answer your question a lot of our SF support is carried out by the RAF in particular the Joint Special Forces Aviation Wing and 7 Sqn equipped with Boeing Chinook HC6...with all the bells and whistles plus FLIR, and NVG equipped crews.
About a RAF NCO aircrewman (now called Weapons Systems Operator) later turned commercial airline pilot after he left, and his career with the Chinook special forces community in the late 1980s and in Operation Desert Storm. All in that time he was working on building p his hours on light aircraft and gaining his commercial license so when he left he would go into being an airline pilot and morale was low in the RAF end of cold war anyhow. There is a bit of bitterness as he writes about post Desert Storm as he thought he had Gulf War Syndrome, which had an effect on him and his family.
7 Squadron RAF also had the dstinction of flying the now retired Gazelle , because it would act as a kinda forward air controller , that would go in front of the Chinooks ..observe target, recon etc..
SBS can be assisted by their own brethren the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Merlin HC4 if need be and have fire support from the Wildcat HMA2.
During Operation Desert Storm, the likes of the famous Bravo Two Zero SAS team (think Andy McNabb) got inserted by RAF Chinook behind enemy lines.
Our SAS / SBS teams have also been inserted or extracted by the likes of 160th SOAR Nightstalkers, USAF AFSOC, in the last 3 decades.
But in terms of simplifying the rest of the UK's medium lift helicopters, sure, settle in on one type and buy a crapton of them. Like what the US did with the H-60 series. You will still want and need heavier lift helicopters, there's a reason the US Army flies both Blackhawks and Chinooks and the USN flies Seahawks and H-53s. So let the RAF have their Chinooks, and replace all their smaller helicopters with whatever the Army and RN buy for their medium lift helicopters. Gives you a much larger spare parts pool.
Says who? You are behind the times lol, no H225 / H225M are grounded since 2017 I know because I was one several individuals went flying in H225 at Helitech 2017 show in London Excel in Sept 2017 my pics below (after they were allowed by EASA to resume flying after over year grounded sadly due to the CHC fatal crash in Norway with separation of the MRh).
The other year Royal Singapore Air Force H225M was delivered
The Netherlands is purchasing Airbus Helicopters H225M Caracal multirole rotorcraft to be used by its special operations forces (SOF) as well as the Northrop Grumman...
Sorry I meant parked/in storage, or voluntarily grounded so to speak. Anyway some operators got some great deals on those ex-offshore H225s (Milestone Aviation/Air Center, Ukraine gov…).
Following our detailed analysis of the H225/AS332L2 fleet movements yesterday there is one other key contract for H225s which we can now provide more details to. In late May, the French Government announced that Airbus signed a €555 million ($643M) deal with Ukraine for 55 helicopters. The...
it was 28 (Army Co-Opeeration) Squadron RAF that had the Merlins, in fact bearing in mind 28 (AC) Sqn just about finished, disbanded temp once the handover to Hing Kong was complete and the Westland Wessex handed over to the Uruguay Air Force, at then Kai Tak International Airport. Few years later into the Millenium, they reformed to be the RAF Merlin squadron.
Laughingly or not your ref RAf/AAC operating the Merlin, according to Army Air Corps by Paul Beaver published circa 1987, under the chapter on future programs such as then TONAL attack helicopter (Agusta A129 developed further by UK, Spain, Netherlands as well as Italy). The author then brings up his musings, or how the future battlefield lift would look like bearing in mind it was round 1 back then of the WS-70 Blackhawk for the RAF.
But he mentions how the battlefield support role could be given wholly to the Army Air Corps like with other countries such as USA, Italy, and Merlin could go to the AAC. BUt it never happened and instead a decade or so after the book was published, Joint Helicopter Command (JHC) was established at army land forces Hq, with RAF officer in charge one year, then ARmy Air Corps then Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm officer.
Either way, regardless, its the army controls the budget predominantly for RAF Battlefield support helos, such as Puma, Chinook, and then Merlin. In short the army is the customer, paying for rides ..
Then ithe Mk3 and Mk3a (former Royal Danish Air Force ones we redirected back here due to Urgent Operational Requirements for Afghanistan) went to the ROyal Navy Fleet Air Arm Commando Helicopter Force as interim till the new Merlin Mk IV arrived on scene in the last 6 years.
Given the desired size the various bits of Brit military like for their "medium lift" helicopters, the EH101/Merlin seems a good replacement for the Puma.
If the Army is comfortable going down to squad (sorry, section) transport sized helicopters, then the Blackhawk makes sense. Or if the program drags on so long that the V-280s enter service before a decision is made, then I could see the UK getting V-280s instead. But that also means you need 2-3x as many helos compared to Puma/Merlin.
Specifically for CSAR, though, I find it really hard to argue with the CV-22 Osprey. Even if it means you only operate 10 of the beasts. The speed for getting a downed pilot out of trouble is just about unbeatable (and the ability to carry a section of grunts to guard the medics helps).
You know I can see it now . . .
Some Neddy in the MoD, studying the Black Hawk proposal suddenly realising
'These aren't bad helicopters, and they've been around for quite a while. I wonder if we could get some cheap ones, second hand . . .'
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