NHIndustries NH90

[GTX]

Some more information here:

Authorities recover likely Army chopper wreckage, four crew still missing

Police say wreckage found off the Queensland coast appears to be from missing Taipan chopper, but the search continues for its four-person crew.

www.abc.net.au

and here:

https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/releases/2023-07-29/exercise-talisman-sabre-incident

From what I understand, it could have been a lot worse as they’d just dropped off soldiers from 2nd Commando Regiment.

 

[TomcatViP]

So, is the fleet grounded? It reads "operational pause" but is that different?

 

[Spey_Phantom]

there's an update on Belgium's NH90-TTH woes.
it appears that the MoD has made a U-turn in its plans to withdraw the type.
originally it was planned to withdraw the NH90 by April 2024, however, there have been discussions with industry to keep the 4 TTH-version in service for a little while longer. however, this decision has no influence on the LUH (Airbus H145M) aquasition program, that will now replace the remaining Agusta A109BAi's, a deal for 20 is expected to be signed later this year (15 for the Air Force, and 5 for the Federal Police air support unit (RAGO)).

Les hélicoptères NH90 seront maintenus en service au-delà de 2024

La Défense ne retirera pas aussi rapidement qu'un moment envisagé - l'an prochain - ses quatre hélicoptères de transport tactique (TTH) NH90 Caïman basés à Beauvechain et les maintiendra en service au-delà de 2024, a-t-on appris jeudi de sources concordantes.

www-rtl-be.translate.goog

 

[yasotay]

Any thoughts if Belgium will get on the "NATOhawk" train? Or will they go with EC725 Caracal?

This must be infuriating at the Eurocopter HQ.

 

[Spey_Phantom]

Any thoughts if Belgium will get on the "NATOhawk" train? Or will they go with EC725 Caracal?

This must be infuriating at the Eurocopter HQ.

there are no plans to aquire new medium-lift helicopters, with the exception of 4 7-tonne class helicopters next year for SAR work.
but there are plans to aquire a fleet of 8 to 10 heavylift helicopters by the end of the decade, and the CH-47F Chinook has been touted as the favorite, athough this plan could be altered, because the whole "made in EU" mindset, but there is no European heavylift helicopter, they have no other alternative (and i think the CH-53K is too expensive and overkill for Belgium)

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Australia permanently grounds long troubled MRH90 Taipan

Australia will prematurely cease all flying operations with the NH Industries MRH90 Taipan, as it looks to accelerate deliveries of its replacement, the Sikorsky UH-60M Black Hawk.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[GTX]

Australian Defence Force MRH-90 Taipan helicopters involved in fatal crash retired early

The Australian Defence Force's MRH-90 Taipan helicopter fleet — one of which was involved in a fatal military training exercise in the Whitsundays — has been retired early.

www.abc.net.au

 

[TomcatViP]

Well, I guess that's what Airbus call a compostable helicopter built with bio degradable material.

 

[FighterJock]

That has come as no surprise that the Taipan has been retired early. I think that Australia has made the right decision to get rid of the MRH-90 and concentrate on getting the UH-60M Black Hawk into service.

 

[aonestudio]

Australia retires 40 NH-90 helicopters early – Aeroflap

Grounded since August, Australia's MRH-90 Taipan helicopters will not fly again. Models from Sweden and Norway were also canceled early.

www.aeroflap.com.br

Australia's NH90 Helicopter Nightmare Is Finally Ending

Australia has dumped its NH90s after years of budget blow-outs, low availability, defects, mission failures and the tragic loss of aircrew.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Scott Kenny]

Finland has 20. Deliveries were seriously late. Nine of the helicopters were still delivered in a stripped down configuration and upgraded later on. Apparently, over 50% are now operational at any given time. From 2008 to 2015, more than 50% were under maintenance, repair, or upgrading. Some media have reported that a flight hour in a NH90 costs €6000 more than an hour in an F/A-18 C/D.

What in the (expletives deleted)?!??

What that means is that they did not build enough spare stock of the most expensive parts such as flight computers, gearboxes, engines and engine spares, rotors and rotor head spares so that the world fleet had to beg and borrow from each other. Given that Airbus have been operating pooled parts systems for decades with the Airbus airliners, this should not have happened. It's so basic, so important to get right from Day one.

Seriously.

Airliners as young as 8 years old are being broken up to supply spare parts for their brothers and sisters.
Short production runs and too few spares being built are the problems.
Once a production line shuts down, the dollar value of rare spares can go through the roof!!!!!!

You would not believe the cheers of joy when an audit of the Boeing warehouse revealed a 727 upper fuselage skin that wasn't in the inventory database... I heard it clear on the other end of the airfield!

appalling standards. You wouldnt tolerate it with a car, or a tank or a naval ship, why should you tolerate it with a helicopter?

Point of order, naval ships run around 33% availability.

NH90 story is confusing… other small users like the RNZAF are flying the pants off their NH90s and seem very happy.

RNZAF clocks up marathon flying effort during Cyclone Gabrielle response

Keeping a team of three helicopters almost constantly airborne is no mean feat, and Royal New Zealand Air Force Detachment Commander, Squadron Leader Andy Scrase credits the maintainer crews for making that possible in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle.

www.nzdf.mil.nz

For the record the RNZAF fleet flies 3x more hours than the Norwegians, with only 8 helicopters vs. 14 (!)… 40% fewer airframes.

Their maintenance is also impressively lean - 60 technicians at squadron level to support 8 helos flying 200+ hours a year. And only 13 people for second line support (600 hour checks). No idea why New Zealand seems to have mastered the NH90 (coming from the UH-1 no less… a very old bird).

It may be because they're used to old birds that needed a lot of maintenance, so NZ bought as many spares as they were using for the Hueys.

 

[kqcke for you]

Italy Receives its Final NH90 - European Security & Defence

Deliveries of NHIndustries NH90 helicopters to the Italian Navy are complete, Italian programme contributor Leonardo announced on 2 October 2023. In all, 56 Italian NH90s have been delivered: 46 SH-90 naval variants for anti-submarine warfare/anti-surface warfare and 10 MH-90s for land-based...

euro-sd.com

 

[RavenOne]

NH Industries is talking about NH90 block 2 upgrade which will involve fitting it with guided missiles and rockets. At this time NH90 TTH (Tactical Transport Helicopter) is just fitted with door guns, while Oman has managed to fit gun pods to theirs, and the NFH (Nato Frigate Helicopter) is fitted with torpedoes

Armed NH90 troop transport helicopter could form part of Block 2 upgrade

NH Industries (NHI) is for the first time considering arming the NH90 transport, potentially offering a range of weapons - including rockets and guided missiles - as part of a future mid-life upgrade for the helicopter.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Stovepipe]

What in the (expletives deleted)?!??



Seriously.



You would not believe the cheers of joy when an audit of the Boeing warehouse revealed a 727 upper fuselage skin that wasn't in the inventory database... I heard it clear on the other end of the airfield!




Point of order, naval ships run around 33% availability.



It may be because they're used to old birds that needed a lot of maintenance, so NZ bought as many spares as they were using for the Hueys.

New Zealand hasnt got a huge manpower base to begin with, so id imagine their current manpower are running to stand still and all the fat has been wrung out of the system. couple of personnel go sick or go on courses and things will run down. Airlines and leasing companies pay more and there are fewer heli mechs to start with.

 

[Scott Kenny]

New Zealand hasnt got a huge manpower base to begin with, so id imagine their current manpower are running to stand still and all the fat has been wrung out of the system. couple of personnel go sick or go on courses and things will run down. Airlines and leasing companies pay more and there are fewer heli mechs to start with.

Heli mechanics love helis, though.

The trick is to get more people into helos at their schools or at the start of their careers, to trigger that love.

If NZ is really run so tight that they can't afford to send a couple of people to schools or whatever, they need to grab enough bodies that they can send people to school.

 

[aonestudio]

Australia Is Literally Burying Its Doomed NH90 Helicopter Fleet

The Australia's young NH90 helicopters were such a nightmare that they are being stripped of parts and buried after nobody wanted them.

www.thedrive.com

 

[TomS]

Australia Is Literally Burying Its Doomed NH90 Helicopter Fleet

The Australia's young NH90 helicopters were such a nightmare that they are being stripped of parts and buried after nobody wanted them.

www.thedrive.com

It's not so much that the airframes are being buried for safety, it's that the Australian defense establishment wants to bury the story and this is the easiest way they could think of to do it. It means the airframes won't be sitting around somewhere that people can keep taking pictures of them.

 

[H_K]

It's not so much that the airframes are being buried for safety, it's that the Australian defense establishment wants to bury the story and this is the easiest way they could think of to do it. It means the airframes won't be sitting around somewhere that people can keep taking pictures of them.

I don’t think they were trying to hide them as much as to make sure that no one could ever use the airframes again. They wanted to avoid the embarrassment of having another operator show that these helicopters were perfectly flyable.

 

[Archibald]

Well - they also buried the F-111s. No idea about the whys of that Australian quirk of burying flying machines...

 

[Moose]

Well - they also buried the F-111s. No idea about the whys of that Australian quirk of burying flying machines...

Its to keep their giant spiders from figuring out how to fly them. For the best, really.

 

[Archibald]

And Koalas, too. They are conspiring for world domination and terror... with cats, obviously.

 

[Michel Van]

those burial site will one day dig up by archaeologist
question is: Future Humans or descendant of Cats ?

 

[yasotay]

those burial site will one day dig up by archaeologist
question is: Future Humans or descendant of Cats ?

THX 1138

 

[TomcatViP]

I don’t think they were trying to hide them as much as to make sure that no one could ever use the airframes again. They wanted to avoid the embarrassment of having another operator show that these helicopters were perfectly flyable.

You are absolutely incredible. With so much users throwing to the bin their NH-90 (and loosing temporarily the expected capacity at a time of great stress on defense), including plenty of European services, you are still pushing for this weird narrative.


OK, let's step back and try to use our brains.
1st: what are they burrying: airframe only (all system removed)
2ndly: what's specifics with these airframe? They are all CFRP
3rdly: what are the alternatives to burrying: store them under the sun or inside a hangar
4th: what are the specifics of Australia remote storage sites: often in desert area with high temperatures
5th: CFRP airframe fires are hard to estinghish and generate a lot of hazardous chemicals. Would require a lot of on-site personnels.


So what would be the rational outcome of such combinations: store the NH airframe inside a regulated temperature hangar (costly) or dig a hole and burry them deep that there is no hazard of fire.

Was it that hard?

Edit:
Alternatively, giant spiders migration and countering Cats & Koala world domination would be also a valid alternative argument.

Notice also that I haven't read yet any French man pointing the finger... AUKUS. But, probably...

 

[H_K]

AUS made no real effort to sell the airframes.

Only a few weeks between the decision to permanently ground the fleet and the start of disposal activities. Ukraine would have taken them, others maybe… but that would have required allowing time for a legit sales effort (several months if not over a year). And then the embarrassment of seeing those helicopters fly again… which clearly the Australian government didn’t want.

I’m not a particular fan of NH90 - I can totally understand why operators prefer to avoid the maintenance headaches and buy Blackhawks or Super Pumas instead. NH90 does do the job though, at least in recent years once most of the early issues were ironed out. It isn’t perfect but I think some operators went out of their way to blame the early product issues for some of their own failures - Australia and Norway in particular made some very dumb decisions which hurt their NH90 fleets.

 

[TomcatViP]

If you had read the reports, you would have noticed that they have offered some to NZ.
So much for the ambarrassement theory.

 

[yasotay]

Even more criminal, the Aussies' buried their F-111s'.

Burying decommissioned equipment is not new. Heck think its been done for a couple thousand years.

 

[FighterJock]

Did not know about the Australian F-111s being buried yasotay. I thought that at least one of them would have gone to a museum.

 

[GTX]

Did not know about the Australian F-111s being buried yasotay. I thought that at least one of them would have gone to a museum.

5 did go to museums or for display

 

[GTX]

AUS made no real effort to sell the airframes.

Only a few weeks between the decision to permanently ground the fleet and the start of disposal activities. Ukraine would have taken them, others maybe… but that would have required allowing time for a legit sales effort (several months if not over a year). And then the embarrassment of seeing those helicopters fly again… which clearly the Australian government didn’t want.

I’m not a particular fan of NH90 - I can totally understand why operators prefer to avoid the maintenance headaches and buy Blackhawks or Super Pumas instead. NH90 does do the job though, at least in recent years once most of the early issues were ironed out. It isn’t perfect but I think some operators went out of their way to blame the early product issues for some of their own failures - Australia and Norway in particular made some very dumb decisions which hurt their NH90 fleets.

There is a lot not being reported or downright lies being reported about this sorry saga. Some of those lies are coming from the minister, most probably due to them being fed to him by certain senior members of Army Aviation wanting anything to do with the MRH90 well and truly buried. Unfortunately the information I have is not something I am at liberty to publish...though some well targeted FOI requests might get it.

I had a bit to do with the MRH90 entering service but can assure you that I am no fan of Airbus here. The history of the MRH90 in service is a sorry one with plenty of failures to perform...on both industry and Defence sides. That all said, the decisions being undertaken now to deprive the Ukrainians of them and to use inaccurate excuses and reporting is criminal.

 

[TomcatViP]

And to utterly debunk the embarrassment allegations raised above by user @H_K :

Airbus negotiates with Australia for MRH90 parts

Airbus and NHIndustries (NHI) are negotiating with the Australian government to harvest high-value parts and critical components from the Australian Defence Force's...

www.janes.com

Let's be honest, what best than sell bulk airframe to make money? Sell them in pieces.

It will be interesting to look after the total value of these sales for undeclared Airbus compensations.

 

[Scott Kenny]

And to utterly debunk the embarrassment allegations raised above by user @H_K :

Airbus negotiates with Australia for MRH90 parts

Airbus and NHIndustries (NHI) are negotiating with the Australian government to harvest high-value parts and critical components from the Australian Defence Force's...

www.janes.com

Let's be honest, what best than sell bulk airframe to make money? Sell them in pieces.

It will be interesting to look after the total value of these sales for undeclared Airbus compensations.

That and the major complaint about the NH90 is the lack of spare parts for most users.

NZ is the exception, but I suspect that they just ordered the same number of spares as if the helicopter was a 60yo Huey with Vietnam combat damage.

 

[yasotay]

It certainly looked like all of the usable parts had been stripped prior to them being buried.

 

[GTX]

It certainly looked like all of the usable parts had been stripped prior to them being buried.

The ones shown so far are just the 6 RAN ones that were pulled from service years ago.

 

[Stovepipe]

The F111s were buried because they poisoned the mechs who worked on them. Look up the cancer saga of those guys. Shameful reading.

 

[yasotay]

Not the first country to literally bury bad decisions I guess.

 

[GTX]

Now that New Zealand is part of AUKUS, that would even up the ante for Frenches to point the finger N... Z...

Since when?? Facts please. New Zealand is interested but as of today they are not part of.

 

[Foo Fighter]

They would perhaps have made interesting garden sheds......

 

[FighterJock]

THE ultimate garden sheds Foo Fighter, for me that is. A shame that they were buried.

 

[eagle]

Or fancy tents