NASA Space Launch System (SLS)

[BlueAbyssal]

Not what you want to hear about a major program... and I wonder how Boeing can turn it around given that talented engineers and technicians overwhelmingly want to work for SpaceX, Blue Origin, Stoke, Varda, Vast, etc.: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...ets-are-built-with-an-unqualified-work-force/

 

[publiusr]

That's the coming upper stage--the SLS flight with the D-IV upper stage didn't have a payload shortfall like Starship did.

Both SLS coming upper stage and Starship are works in progress.

The SLS core block and SuperHeavy are known quantities.

National programs can falter via self-fulfilling prophecies.

"X is a waste of tax dollars"

People who work on X feel their heads on the chopping block-leave...and only lesser qualifieds are left.

"See? They don't know what they are doing."

X can be SLS, the Avro Arrow, TSR-2, F-35, etc.

I chalk these problems up to Boeing suits, but also the hostile climate SLS faces.

Frequent Starship testing is also likely taking a hit due to hostility towards Musk as well.

This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.

 

[Byeman]

"X is a waste of tax dollars"

People who work on X feel their heads on the chopping block-leave...and only lesser qualifieds are left.

"See? They don't know what they are doing."

X can be SLS, the Avro Arrow, TSR-2, F-35, etc.

I chalk these problems up to Boeing suits, but also the hostile climate SLS faces.

Frequent Starship testing is also likely taking a hit due to hostility towards Musk as well.

This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.

false logic.
SLS, the Avro Arrow, and TSR-2 are/were not needed.

 

[Byeman]

This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.

No, it is capitalism. Just because it is spaceflight doesn't mean it gets treated differently than any other industry like automobiles, phones, TVs, etc

 

[BlueAbyssal]

publiusr, I’m not interested in relitigating why you feel the SLS is so put-upon and your contention that it’s unfair. If you want to discuss it - and I mean really discuss it - PM me your email address.

It seems certain the SLS will launch only three times this decade. With all the alternatives popping up, it’s hard to envision a substantial role for the SLS in doing anything aside from launching Orion, and we should have at least one other manned option to keep Boeing, Lockheed et al. honest.

 

[NMaude]

Whether or not SLS is needed is questionable but on the other the Avro Arrow and the TSR-2 were needed and their cancellations for bullshit reasons did irreparable damage to the aerospace industries of Canada and the UK.

 

[TsrJoe]

Getting a bit off topic, re the Arrow and TSR.2 cost and changing requirements at the end of the day we're the deciding factors in cancellation

 

[publiusr]

Any time you see projects killed--there isn't just a human cost. Tribal knowledge can be lost

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

SLS?

Another Arrow or TSR.2 mention is not really sticking to topic.

 

[BlueAbyssal]

After the SLS program has ended, I hope someone funds a mission to recover parts from the ocean, much the way Jeff Bezos funded recovering Apollo hardware. The SSMEs should be in museums now to inspire future generations, not remain broken at the bottom of the sea.

 

[FighterJock]

It all depends on how deep the water is where the parts from the SLS rockets fall into whether or not it is worth while recovering them.

 

[BlueAbyssal]

Sure, that’s implicitly understood.

 

[NMaude]

It all depends on how deep the water is where the parts from the SLS rockets fall into whether or not it is worth while recovering them.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when a Saturn V's S-IC stage separated the rocket was travelling ~3,500 mph while the SLS first-stage is at orbital velocity (~17,500mph) when it reenters the atmosphere so a lot more of it will be destroyed before impact.

 

[FighterJock]

Thanks NMaude.

 

[Byeman]

Any time you see projects killed--there isn't just a human cost. Tribal knowledge can be lost

Only tribal knowledge of the"killed" project is gone, so no real loss.

 

[Byeman]

After the SLS program has ended, I hope someone funds a mission to recover parts from the ocean, much the way Jeff Bezos funded recovering Apollo hardware. The SSMEs should be in museums now to inspire future generations, not remain broken at the bottom of the sea.

Not needed. There are already more on display than will fly on SLS. 46 were built and only 16 are being used on SLS.

 

[BlueAbyssal]

Fair enough.

 

[publiusr]

Bezos did recover some F-1s IIRC

 

[BlueAbyssal]

He did, but those were in shallower water and much less damaged.

 

[NMaude]

He did, but those were in shallower water and much less damaged.

The part of the Atlantic seabed where his expedition retrieved them from was about the same depth as the Titanic's wreck so I'd hardly call that shallow. On another note note it's a pity that they weren't retrieved before 2012 (The year Neil Armstrong died).

 

[BlueAbyssal]

Shallower, not shallow. But otherwise agreed.

 

[publiusr]

Another thing to keep in mind is that when a Saturn V's S-IC stage separated the rocket was travelling ~3,500 mph while the SLS first-stage is at orbital velocity (~17,500mph) when it reenters the atmosphere so a lot more of it will be destroyed before impact.

For the sake of argument--imagine the upper stage is omitted and the tankage lengthened to Block 2 specifications.

How high an orbit could be achieved?

 

[NMaude]

For the sake of argument--imagine the upper stage is omitted and the tankage lengthened to Block 2 specifications.

How high an orbit could be achieved?

I don't know however the SRB/First-stage combination can deliver a large payload to orbit and in this scenario the question would be how much can such a rocket loft into a circular orbit and how high?

 

[NMaude]

Phillip Sloss has just uploaded a new status video concerning Artemis II and III hardware shipments to the KSC:

More Artemis II and Artemis III hardware is on the way to the Kennedy Space Center in Florida where it will eventually launch, but the questions about how preparations are going and outstanding issues remain unresolved. The SLS Launch Vehicle Stage Adapter for Artemis II and the Orion European Service Module for Artemis III are traveling by sea and should arrive at KSC in September.

But when the next milestones in preparation for those two missions might occur are to be announced. This video runs through the hardware, the deliveries, and the questions that remain swirling about Artemis II and III.

The potential for more delays to Artemis III led NASA to plan to extend the LVSA support contract through the rest of the decade if it comes to that, and I consider what that might mean here, too.

Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.

Stephen Clark's story for Ars Technica:https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08...https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...ore-stacking-artemis-ii-rocket/&v=fqZwlHAICPo
Jeff Foust's story for Space News:https://spacenews.com/sls-contract-ex...https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...s-at-additional-artemis-delays/&v=fqZwlHAICPo

00:00 Intro
00:59 Artemis II LVSA begins shipment to KSC for launch
05:13 Artemis II VAB preps continue...
08:15 ...but SLS stacking schedule for Artemis II remains uncertain
11:51 ESM-3 begins its shipment to KSC from Germany
15:38 LVSA contract extension would enable support the rest of the decade
20:14 Thanks for watching!