NASA Space Launch System (SLS)

That's the coming upper stage--the SLS flight with the D-IV upper stage didn't have a payload shortfall like Starship did.

Both SLS coming upper stage and Starship are works in progress.

The SLS core block and SuperHeavy are known quantities.

National programs can falter via self-fulfilling prophecies.

"X is a waste of tax dollars"

People who work on X feel their heads on the chopping block-leave...and only lesser qualifieds are left.

"See? They don't know what they are doing."

X can be SLS, the Avro Arrow, TSR-2, F-35, etc.

I chalk these problems up to Boeing suits, but also the hostile climate SLS faces.

Frequent Starship testing is also likely taking a hit due to hostility towards Musk as well.

This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.
 
Last edited:
publiusr said:
"X is a waste of tax dollars"

People who work on X feel their heads on the chopping block-leave...and only lesser qualifieds are left.

"See? They don't know what they are doing."

X can be SLS, the Avro Arrow, TSR-2, F-35, etc.

I chalk these problems up to Boeing suits, but also the hostile climate SLS faces.

Frequent Starship testing is also likely taking a hit due to hostility towards Musk as well.

This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.
Click to expand...
false logic.
SLS, the Avro Arrow, and TSR-2 are/were not needed.
 
publiusr said:
This is why Hillhouse at AmericaSpace called for new space and legacy firms to praise each other--rather than cause the zero sum game we are seeing play out now.
Click to expand...
No, it is capitalism. Just because it is spaceflight doesn't mean it gets treated differently than any other industry like automobiles, phones, TVs, etc
 
publiusr, I’m not interested in relitigating why you feel the SLS is so put-upon and your contention that it’s unfair. If you want to discuss it - and I mean really discuss it - PM me your email address.

It seems certain the SLS will launch only three times this decade. With all the alternatives popping up, it’s hard to envision a substantial role for the SLS in doing anything aside from launching Orion, and we should have at least one other manned option to keep Boeing, Lockheed et al. honest.
 
Whether or not SLS is needed is questionable but on the other the Avro Arrow and the TSR-2 were needed and their cancellations for bullshit reasons did irreparable damage to the aerospace industries of Canada and the UK.
 
Getting a bit off topic, re the Arrow and TSR.2 cost and changing requirements at the end of the day we're the deciding factors in cancellation
 
After the SLS program has ended, I hope someone funds a mission to recover parts from the ocean, much the way Jeff Bezos funded recovering Apollo hardware. The SSMEs should be in museums now to inspire future generations, not remain broken at the bottom of the sea.
 
It all depends on how deep the water is where the parts from the SLS rockets fall into whether or not it is worth while recovering them.
 
FighterJock said:
It all depends on how deep the water is where the parts from the SLS rockets fall into whether or not it is worth while recovering them.
Click to expand...

Another thing to keep in mind is that when a Saturn V's S-IC stage separated the rocket was travelling ~3,500 mph while the SLS first-stage is at orbital velocity (~17,500mph) when it reenters the atmosphere so a lot more of it will be destroyed before impact.
 
Last edited:
BlueAbyssal said:
After the SLS program has ended, I hope someone funds a mission to recover parts from the ocean, much the way Jeff Bezos funded recovering Apollo hardware. The SSMEs should be in museums now to inspire future generations, not remain broken at the bottom of the sea.
Click to expand...
Not needed. There are already more on display than will fly on SLS. 46 were built and only 16 are being used on SLS.
 
BlueAbyssal said:
He did, but those were in shallower water and much less damaged.
Click to expand...

The part of the Atlantic seabed where his expedition retrieved them from was about the same depth as the Titanic's wreck so I'd hardly call that shallow. On another note note it's a pity that they weren't retrieved before 2012 (The year Neil Armstrong died).
 
NMaude said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that when a Saturn V's S-IC stage separated the rocket was travelling ~3,500 mph while the SLS first-stage is at orbital velocity (~17,500mph) when it reenters the atmosphere so a lot more of it will be destroyed before impact.
Click to expand...
For the sake of argument--imagine the upper stage is omitted and the tankage lengthened to Block 2 specifications.

How high an orbit could be achieved?
 
publiusr said:
For the sake of argument--imagine the upper stage is omitted and the tankage lengthened to Block 2 specifications.

How high an orbit could be achieved?
Click to expand...

I don't know however the SRB/First-stage combination can deliver a large payload to orbit and in this scenario the question would be how much can such a rocket loft into a circular orbit and how high?
 
Phillip Sloss has just uploaded a new status video concerning Artemis II and III hardware shipments to the KSC:


More Artemis II and Artemis III hardware is on the way to the Kennedy Space Center in Florida where it will eventually launch, but the questions about how preparations are going and outstanding issues remain unresolved. The SLS Launch Vehicle Stage Adapter for Artemis II and the Orion European Service Module for Artemis III are traveling by sea and should arrive at KSC in September.
Click to expand...
But when the next milestones in preparation for those two missions might occur are to be announced. This video runs through the hardware, the deliveries, and the questions that remain swirling about Artemis II and III.
Click to expand...
The potential for more delays to Artemis III led NASA to plan to extend the LVSA support contract through the rest of the decade if it comes to that, and I consider what that might mean here, too.
Click to expand...
Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.
Click to expand...
Stephen Clark's story for Ars Technica:https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08...https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...ore-stacking-artemis-ii-rocket/&v=fqZwlHAICPo
Jeff Foust's story for Space News:https://spacenews.com/sls-contract-ex...https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...s-at-additional-artemis-delays/&v=fqZwlHAICPo
Click to expand...
00:00 Intro
00:59 Artemis II LVSA begins shipment to KSC for launch
05:13 Artemis II VAB preps continue...
08:15 ...but SLS stacking schedule for Artemis II remains uncertain
11:51 ESM-3 begins its shipment to KSC from Germany
15:38 LVSA contract extension would enable support the rest of the decade
20:14 Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...
 
Phillip Sloss has uploaded a new video the current status of Artemis II and schedules along with the OIG audit of the ML-2:


There's a lot of Artemis news to cover in this video, starting with an update from the NASA Exploration Ground Systems program on Artemis II status and schedules. Leadership for the NASA Exploration directorate briefed the NASA Advisory Council that same morning with more context about upcoming Artemis II decisions that need to be made on heatshield options and vehicle stacking.
Click to expand...
And we're seeing progress and milestones for Artemis II, III, and IV at the same time that the Inspector General for the space agency reports on issues they found with the Mobile Launcher-2 project. So that's more of the mixed messaging: the OIG report details cost and schedule overruns for the ML that will enter service beginning with Artemis IV simultaneously with completion of Orion and SLS flight subassemblies that are currently "out for delivery.
Click to expand...
"We'll be digesting the new information and context over the next few weeks, but we'll start here.
Click to expand...
Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.
Click to expand...
00:00 Intro
00:38 EGS senior manager Cliff Lanham talks to the podcast about Artemis II status
02:08 Mobile Launcher-1 emergency egress system testing update
03:11 Status of other ML-Pad 39B verification and validation testing
06:36 Readiness of Artemis II SLS Boosters for stacking
07:38 Artemis II ICPS status
10:13 Readiness of SLS Core Stage for Artemis II stacking
14:20 Timing of NASA decision on when to start Artemis II stacking
17:48 Artemis II takeaways from NASA Exploration public report in NASA Advisory Council meeting
21:31 OIG reports on Mobile Launcher-2 cost and schedule compliance issues
26:19 News and notes, VAB High Bay 2, SLS triple delivery pickup in New Orleans
29:50 Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...
 
Phillip Sloss has a new update concerning Artemis II:



The arrival this past week of new Orion and SLS flight hardware at Kennedy Space Center for Artemis II, III, and IV is a reminder of the uncertain launch schedule. This video covers those deliveries, of the Artemis II SLS Launch Vehicle Stage Adapter, Artemis II Orion European Service Module, and SLS Core Stage engine section hardware for Artemis III and IV.
Click to expand...
Artemis II is scheduled for launch only one year from this month, and most of the SLS hardware for Artemis II is now in and around the Vehicle Assembly Building. In this video, we also cover plans and preparations for the launch campaign in the second part of an interview with Exploration Ground Systems senior vehicle operations manager Cliff Lanham.
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, the next milestones for that newly-delivery hardware are known in general, but when those and other Artemis III milestones will happen is harder to see. We go over the cloudy forecast and other Artemis III takeaways from the late August NASA Advisory Council meeting here, too.
Click to expand...
Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.
Click to expand...
00:00 Intro
02:13 A week of Orion and SLS flight hardware deliveries to KSC
03:00 ESM-3 arrives in Orion final assembly at KSC
04:21 Core Stage engine section hardware packaged for shipment at MAF
06:45 Offloading SLS triple shipment from Pegasus at KSC
09:12 EGS senior manager Cliff Lanham talks to the podcast about Artemis II launch plans
10:13 Improving launch availability with contingency pad access capability
18:36 Artemis II pad flow from rollout to launch
20:35 Integrating the astronaut crew ingress of Orion into the launch countdown
24:05 Artemis III takeaways from NASA Exploration public report in NASA Advisory Council meeting
25:12 "At least" one uncrewed HLS lunar landing demonstration?
25:53 Outlook for the future remains cloudy only two years from Artemis III launch date
27:55 Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...
 
Phillip Sloss has just uploaded a video to YT concerning Artemis II's history:


As it stands, the Artemis II mission is still targeting launch a year from now, in September 2025. This video covers the evolution of the mission profile, that goes back to the early days of SLS and the post-Constellation era Orion in 2012.
Click to expand...
Artemis II has always been the first crewed mission to fly to the Moon since Apollo 17 in December 1972, years before the mission was given that name. In addition to covering the history of the mission, from a lunar orbit test flight, to a co-manifested Gateway launch with the Exploration Upper Stage and SLS Block 1B, and then back to Block 1 with the Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage on today's "hybrid triple" profile that culminates in an Orion lunar flyby.
Click to expand...
The profile may be many years old, but NASA is still privately working on the fine timelines and flight day planning from minute to minute. In the meantime, we'll provide an early preview of mission events and key test objectives, from liftoff to splashdown, based on what we know today.
Click to expand...
Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted
Click to expand...
00:00 Intro
01:11 Early history and evolution of the mission profile, when it was called "Exploration Mission-2"
07:12 Preview of the "hybrid triple" mission profile and the added proximity operations demonstration
14:54 The day-long high Earth orbit and the lunar flyby
17:50 Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...
 
Phillip Sloss has just uploaded another video concerning the production and delivery of hardware to NASA for the Artemis II and III missions:


The wait for NASA's decision on the Orion heatshield continues and that will have a big impact on what comes next for Artemis II and III, but now there's another question for Artemis III, which is how big an effect will SpaceX's stance on the environment around their Texas launch site for Starship be for NASA's Exploration plans.
Click to expand...
This video covers that, the post-delivery activity on the Orion and SLS hardware at Kennedy Space Center, and more on Exploration Ground Systems readiness and plans to stack SLS for Artemis II.
Click to expand...
Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.
Click to expand...
00:00 Intro
01:44 Next milestones for the recently delivered Artemis II, III, and IV hardware at KSC
06:45 EGS senior manager Cliff Lanham talks to the podcast about Artemis II launch plans
20:24 Another look at the Artemis II SLS Core Stage provided by NASA Admin Bill Nelson
21:27 Starship IFT-5 delayed by environmental impact reviews
24:52 Artemis II alternatives to consider if no NASA decision is forthcoming
26:03 Thanks for watching!
Click to expand...
 
We could only hope the next President demonstrates both said wisdom, and spends the political capital to make it happen. Artemis’s apex is sharply limited so long as it’s shackled to the SLS and Orion.
 
publiusr said:
Artemis like Apollo is a boost to states...killing that may kill votes.
Click to expand...
The SLS and Orion are not Artemis, and Artemis is not the SLS and Orion. Their sole real role is crew transport. I’d like the Artemis program to become so successful that there are landers aside from Starship and Blue Moon involved; it is not too much to ask that we also have alternate means for crew transport to the Moon available.

Plus, the workforces currently building the SLS and Orion are skilled enough that they can be redirected towards other useful tasks. Shutting them down only means killing Artemis and firing all the workers if we choose to exercise no imagination and no planning whatsoever. Space is also unimportant to the majority of the population, even in space states, so there isn’t a critical mass of support that would evaporate if the SLS did.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom