I can't find any answer about this question in Japanese internet site.flateric said:Anybody knows if structural tests were carried using X-2 flight airframe, or a second one was built for this purpose?
MHI Begins Assembly of Full-scale Model for ATD Aircraft Project
Wed, Mar 28, 2012 2:25 PM
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (MHI) today began assembly of a full-scale structural-testing model of an Advanced Technology Demonstrator (ATD). The ATD, which MHI is building under the contract with the Japan Ministry of Defense, will be used to prove the airworthiness of advanced technologies, including stealth capabilities and high maneuverability, for future Japanese fighters. With the commencement of assembly, the ATD project has now moved into the production phase.
To mark the beginning of assembly work, the "first rivet" ceremony was held earlier today at the Tobishima Plant of MHI's Nagoya Aerospace Systems Works in Aichi Prefecture. Among those attendees were Yoshitaka Akiyama, Director General of the Technical Research & Development Institute, the Japan Ministry of Defense; Haruhiko Kataoka, Japan Air Self-Defense Force Chief of Staff; and Takashi Kobayashi, Representative Director, Executive Vice President and Head of MHI's Aerospace Systems.
During the ceremony, an equipment mounting bracket was riveted to the bulkhead separating the fuel tank from the forward equipment bay in the mid fuselage, which houses electronic equipments. It marks the first step in the assembly of the ATD aircraft. This riveting was conducted for the full-scale static structural test model to be used to obtain strength data of the aircraft’s basic structural elements and to verify the design of the ATD.
Indeed!!Trident said:One thing that strikes me about the X-2 is the chord of those TE flaperons - massive! Big tailerons have been the norm for a while, but those flaperons are huge.
The strongest supporters of a cheaper conventional aircraft are officials close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, said the sources. Abe's government has reversed a decade of defense cuts with spending reaching record levels. However, those increases are a fraction of the extra China is spending every year on its military.
A cheaper fighter program would free up funding for other purchases and a lower cost jet that other nations could afford opens up the prospect of overseas sales that would further lower unit costs for Japan's Self Defence Force.
Pushing for a more advanced fighter are defense ministry bureaucrats and local companies seeking to secure jobs, underpin defense industry supply chains and compensate for business lost to U.S. defense industry suppliers.
Proponents aim to build a jet more advanced than the U.S. Lockheed's F-22 Raptor stealth fighter, said another of the industry sources.
Grey Havoc said:It would appear that there are those within the Japanese government that are trying to push a cheaper 'conventional' design as an alternative to the Shinshin derived F-3 design: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-aerospace-japan-idUSKCN12A2M4
The strongest supporters of a cheaper conventional aircraft are officials close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, said the sources. Abe's government has reversed a decade of defense cuts with spending reaching record levels. However, those increases are a fraction of the extra China is spending every year on its military.
A cheaper fighter program would free up funding for other purchases and a lower cost jet that other nations could afford opens up the prospect of overseas sales that would further lower unit costs for Japan's Self Defence Force.
Pushing for a more advanced fighter are defense ministry bureaucrats and local companies seeking to secure jobs, underpin defense industry supply chains and compensate for business lost to U.S. defense industry suppliers.
Proponents aim to build a jet more advanced than the U.S. Lockheed's F-22 Raptor stealth fighter, said another of the industry sources.
CiTrus90 said:Grey Havoc said:It would appear that there are those within the Japanese government that are trying to push a cheaper 'conventional' design as an alternative to the Shinshin derived F-3 design: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-aerospace-japan-idUSKCN12A2M4
The strongest supporters of a cheaper conventional aircraft are officials close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, said the sources. Abe's government has reversed a decade of defense cuts with spending reaching record levels. However, those increases are a fraction of the extra China is spending every year on its military.
A cheaper fighter program would free up funding for other purchases and a lower cost jet that other nations could afford opens up the prospect of overseas sales that would further lower unit costs for Japan's Self Defence Force.
Pushing for a more advanced fighter are defense ministry bureaucrats and local companies seeking to secure jobs, underpin defense industry supply chains and compensate for business lost to U.S. defense industry suppliers.
Proponents aim to build a jet more advanced than the U.S. Lockheed's F-22 Raptor stealth fighter, said another of the industry sources.
Can't really understand what the reasoning behind this could be.
As far as I remember the ATD-X program was born once it was clear to Japan that the US weren't going to sell them the F-22 and that they had to settle with the F-35 as a successor for their current fleet.
Moreover:
1 - I don't think there's market for a cheaper fighter. Super Hornets, Typhoons, Rafales and Gripens are filling that spot when it comes to buyers that are not getting equipped with Chinese or Russian products.
2 - if they're talking about an aircraft cheaper than the F-22 but not as cheap as a Gripen, there's the F-35. If the plan is to make something as good as a F-35 and sell it worldwide, good luck with that.
A good way they could pursue to share the burden of the costs, could be partnering up with other nations that cannot get the F-22 and could be interested in getting a platform with similar performances, the UK just for one.
totoro said:Articles like these keep mentioning that F-2 will be replaced. But won't the F-15 be replaced in reality? Japanese next gen plane requirement is for an air superiority fighter, as far as i know. Plus F-15 might be longer in the tooth than f-2.
totoro said:Articles like these keep mentioning that F-2 will be replaced. But won't the F-15 be replaced in reality? Japanese next gen plane requirement is for an air superiority fighter, as far as i know. Plus F-15 might be longer in the tooth than f-2.
CiTrus90 said:Agreed. F-15Js are, at least, 10 to 15 years older than the F-2s and will need to be replaced around the 2028-2030 timeframe.
What JASDF desires, moreover, is possibly a twin engined aircraft with supercruise capability and stealth. At the moment, the only aircraft fitting that bill is the F-22, which is clearly out of the question for them.
So the options are:
1 - they go ahead domestically with the F-XX program and develop their own 5th generation fighter aircraft;
2 - they partner up with a US producer and develop a 5th generation fighter aircraft, in a similar way to what happend with the F-2 program;
3 - they partner up with a foreign producer, non-US based, and develop a 5th generation fighter aircraft;
4 - they partner up with a US producer and develop a 6th generation fighter aircraft;
5 - they shelf the F-XX program and develop a 4/4.5th generation fighter aircraft, either domestically or not.
Option 2 automatically excludes the possibility of marketing said aircraft, as it would constitute a rival to the F-35.
Option 4 has been/is being considered, IIRC, by both countries.
Option 5 is the least desirable one, as Japan's neighbours will have stealth aircraft in that timeframe.
I do not consider viable the possibility of developing a 6th generation fighter with a non US based producer.
In my opinion, option 3 in a partnership with a European producer (BAE, EADS, SAAB) would seem the most logical way to solve this issue (keeping costs down, both by sharing development costs with other nations and with the added possibility of marketing the aircraft globally).
Sundog said:Actually, they aren't looking that hard at supercruising any more, as their studies have shown that endurance is more important. They're looking more at the ability to loiter with a deep magazine of missiles. My guess is, they may be interested in some of the upgrades Boeing is offering to the U.S. F-15 fleet in being able to mount many more A2A missiles on the F-15's to use them as stand-off launchers for F-22s and F-35s (F-3's and F-35s for the JASDF).
CiTrus90 said:The hunter-killer tactic, with F-35s picking targets and the F-15s playing quarterbacks, is good, but I'm not that much confident that only 42 F-35s can keep at bay aircraft like the J-20 without the latter inflicting serious losses.
starviking said:CiTrus90 said:The hunter-killer tactic, with F-35s picking targets and the F-15s playing quarterbacks, is good, but I'm not that much confident that only 42 F-35s can keep at bay aircraft like the J-20 without the latter inflicting serious losses.
Japan will, unless there is a major change in its defence posture, be operating in home ground. Japanese ground, air and naval assets will be operating to back each other up. China, in that scenario, would be the one making forays into enemy territory.
Blitzo said:If China was trying to invade the Japanese home islands for whatever nonsensical reason then Japanese ground capabilities and ground based air defences would obviously come into play, but the chances of that happening are so low it's not worth entertaining.
marauder2048 said:Blitzo said:If China was trying to invade the Japanese home islands for whatever nonsensical reason then Japanese ground capabilities and ground based air defences would obviously come into play, but the chances of that happening are so low it's not worth entertaining.
But could Japanese military planners rule out airborne or amphibious operations against the home islands to such an extent
that it would obviate the need for holding certain air and naval units in reserve as a counter? That's less clear (to me at least).
Lockheed Martin to propose stealthy hybrid of F-22 and F-35 for Japan
sources Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo
4 MIN READ
TOKYO (Reuters) - U.S. defence contractor Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) plans to offer Japan a stealth fighter design based on its export-banned F-22 Raptor and advanced F-35 Lightning II aircraft, two sources said.
Lockheed has discussed the idea with Japanese defence ministry officials and will make a formal proposal in response to a Japanese request for information (RFI) after it receives permission from the U.S. government to offer the sensitive military technology, said the sources, who have direct knowledge of the proposal.
The decision on whether to release parts of the highly classified aircraft designs and software to help Japan stay ahead of Chinese advances will test President Donald Trump’s promise to overhaul his country’s arms export policy.
The proposed aircraft “would combine the F-22 and F-35 and could be superior to both of them,” said one of the sources.
Japan, which is already buying the radar-evading F-35 to modernise its inventory, also wants to introduce a separate air superiority fighter in the decade starting 2030 to deter intrusions into its airspace by Chinese and Russian jets.
The country’s air force currently flies the F-15J, based on the Boeing F-15; and the F-2, based on the Lockheed Martin F-16. Both designs are decades old.
Japan’s ambition to build its own stealth fighter was in part spurred by Washington’s refusal a decade ago to sell it the twin-engined F-22, which is still considered the world’s best air superiority fighter.
Although the Japanese stealth aircraft programme, dubbed the F-3, was conceived as a domestic effort estimated to cost around $40 billion, Tokyo has recently sought international collaboration in a bid to share the expense and gain access to technology it would otherwise have to develop from scratch.
Any aircraft built with international partners must have Japanese-designed engines and radar, however, and feature other components made locally, the other source said. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (7011.T) tested a prototype stealth jet in 2016 that cost the Japanese government $350 million to develop.
“We are considering domestic development, joint development and the possibility of improving existing aircraft performance, but we have not yet come to any decision,” a Ministry of Defense spokesman said on Friday.
The Japanese government in March issued a third RFI for the F-3 to foreign defence companies and sent a separate document outlining its requirements in more detail to the British and United States governments.
In addition to a proposal from Lockheed, Japan is hoping for responses from Boeing Co (BA.N), which makes the F/A-18 Super Hornet multirole fighter, and BAE Systems Plc (BAES.L), which is part of the consortium that built the Eurofighter Typhoon high-altitude interceptor.
“We look forward to exploring options for Japan’s F-2 replacement fighter in cooperation with both the Japanese and U.S. governments. Our leadership and experience in 5th generation aircraft can be leveraged to cost-effectively provide capabilities to meet Japan’s future security needs,” a Lockheed Martin spokeswoman said.
Arjen said:From Reuters: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-japan-defence-lockheed-exclusive/exclusive-lockheed-martin-to-propose-stealthy-hybrid-of-f-22-and-f-35-for-japan-sources-idUKKBN1HR0MC
Lockheed Martin to propose stealthy hybrid of F-22 and F-35 for Japan
sources Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo
4 MIN READ
TOKYO (Reuters) - U.S. defence contractor Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) plans to offer Japan a stealth fighter design based on its export-banned F-22 Raptor and advanced F-35 Lightning II aircraft, two sources said.
Lockheed has discussed the idea with Japanese defence ministry officials and will make a formal proposal in response to a Japanese request for information (RFI) after it receives permission from the U.S. government to offer the sensitive military technology, said the sources, who have direct knowledge of the proposal.
The decision on whether to release parts of the highly classified aircraft designs and software to help Japan stay ahead of Chinese advances will test President Donald Trump’s promise to overhaul his country’s arms export policy.
The proposed aircraft “would combine the F-22 and F-35 and could be superior to both of them,” said one of the sources.
Japan, which is already buying the radar-evading F-35 to modernise its inventory, also wants to introduce a separate air superiority fighter in the decade starting 2030 to deter intrusions into its airspace by Chinese and Russian jets.
The country’s air force currently flies the F-15J, based on the Boeing F-15; and the F-2, based on the Lockheed Martin F-16. Both designs are decades old.
Japan’s ambition to build its own stealth fighter was in part spurred by Washington’s refusal a decade ago to sell it the twin-engined F-22, which is still considered the world’s best air superiority fighter.
Although the Japanese stealth aircraft programme, dubbed the F-3, was conceived as a domestic effort estimated to cost around $40 billion, Tokyo has recently sought international collaboration in a bid to share the expense and gain access to technology it would otherwise have to develop from scratch.
Any aircraft built with international partners must have Japanese-designed engines and radar, however, and feature other components made locally, the other source said. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (7011.T) tested a prototype stealth jet in 2016 that cost the Japanese government $350 million to develop.
“We are considering domestic development, joint development and the possibility of improving existing aircraft performance, but we have not yet come to any decision,” a Ministry of Defense spokesman said on Friday.
The Japanese government in March issued a third RFI for the F-3 to foreign defence companies and sent a separate document outlining its requirements in more detail to the British and United States governments.
In addition to a proposal from Lockheed, Japan is hoping for responses from Boeing Co (BA.N), which makes the F/A-18 Super Hornet multirole fighter, and BAE Systems Plc (BAES.L), which is part of the consortium that built the Eurofighter Typhoon high-altitude interceptor.
“We look forward to exploring options for Japan’s F-2 replacement fighter in cooperation with both the Japanese and U.S. governments. Our leadership and experience in 5th generation aircraft can be leveraged to cost-effectively provide capabilities to meet Japan’s future security needs,” a Lockheed Martin spokeswoman said.