Man in space

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

well, in fairness, the cockpit canopy does look extremely small, especially for an aircraft of the time. There'd still have to be an astrodome naturally

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

what other controls might it have? I imagine the pilot would fulfil combined Pilot/Flight Engineer roles, with the co-pilot fulfilling combined Navigator-radio operator roles.

As for facilities, pilots controls sit around him in the nose, much like the Dynasoar cockpit, whilst to the co-pilot's left, he has a radio set, and a small navigation table and his appropriate instruments (compass, map charts, pockets for slide rules, etc. etc.) And likely to his left he has the spacecraft electrical transfer box, and duplicate dials to the pilot that monitor how the spacecraft is doing, plus some controls for the orientation of the spacecraft.

Given that some missions would be quite long, I reckon they would need a toilet, but it would likely be nothing as advanced as the toilet that the apollo missions were able to exercise. It would probably be something similar to the toilet found in most contemporary bomber aircraft of the time, such as the Lancaster, probably with some straps to hold the man down as he performs his (ahem) business, while the other crewman politely looks the other way.

At the rear of the crew cabin, you would have the airlock door, and adjacent to it would be various storage lockers. Food would probably be similar to emergency rations found in most RAF planes, although perhaps dry packed to prevent any moisture ruining the fragile electrics.

Does this sound agreeable?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

also lads, I've been hard at work, and I've managed to bang out the designs for both the American and Soviet spacesuits!


The American suits have been heavily inspired by the XF-5 suit developed in the late 40s by the BF Goodrich company, and amalgamated with the backpack from a Wernher Von Braun concept realised by Fred Freeman (minus the tape recorder, which seems a bit of an odd addition if I'll be honest). The American suits are painted silver on the arms, legs and helmet, with a white paint on the chest, thighs and shoulders. The arm and leg couplings (shoulders and knees on the Goodrich suit), will be blue and red as an homage to the apollo suits of our own timeline



The soviet suits are more original, but nevertheless bear a similar heritage, this time being leonov's suit translated into a more 50s aesthetic. The Soviet suits will be painted in a blue-grey on the body, with white gloves, boots and helmets. This will be done to make the BIC (british) suits look less out of place with the others, with its black torso and thighs, and silver arms, legs and helmet.
What do you think? Done good?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I say, might any of you fine gentlemen know of any good Soviet projects that might serve as their program workhorse? The brits have the BIS Winged orbital Rocket, and the Americans have Von Brauns ferry rocket, but I've so far been able to find nothing for the soviets?

 

[martinbayer]

I say, might any of you fine gentlemen know of any good Soviet projects that might serve as their program workhorse? The brits have the BIS Winged orbital Rocket, and the Americans have Von Brauns ferry rocket, but I've so far been able to find nothing for the soviets?

I'm tempted to say that you didn't find anything because at the time nothing in the West was mature enough to give the Soviets something worth of trying to copy, but a potential real life point of departure for dramatic story purposes might be the Keldysh bomber concept, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keldysh_bomber. YMMV, of course.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I'm tempted to say that you didn't find anything because at the time nothing in the West was mature enough to give the Soviets something worth of trying to copy, but a potential real life point of departure for dramatic story purposes might be the Keldysh bomber concept, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keldysh_bomber. YMMV, of course.

I have been toying with that idea, but someone on twitter suggested perhaps a massively enlarged and V2/A4-influenced GIRD X serving as the first stage, an anomalous second stage, and a spaceplane on the top? Might this perhaps work??

 

[martinbayer]

I have been toying with that idea, but someone on twitter suggested perhaps a massively enlarged and V2/A4-influenced GIRD X serving as the first stage, an anomalous second stage, and a spaceplane on the top? Might this perhaps work??

Depends on the details, but in general, William Moore should be your new best posthumous friend . In other words, do the (easy) basic math, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation. Also, what exactly would an "anomalous second stage" be??? And as a general piece of common sense life advice, *never* heed what anyone on twitter suggests...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Depends on the details, but in general, William Moore should be your new best posthumous friend . In other words, do the (easy) basic math, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation. Also, what exactly would an "anomalous second stage" be??? And as a general piece of common sense life advice, *never* heed what anyone on twitter suggests...

Actually, I think I have a more reasonable suggestion: an enlarged G-2 acting as a first stage booster, with a G-4 second stage, and a Sänger-Silbervogel derived Mig-105 spaceplane acting as the manned third stage.

How does this sound? A bit more feasible?

G-4 (first stage) G-2 (second stage)


With something akin to this for the manned third stage, with some Silbervogel influences (twin tail, swept wings, streamlined body etc.)

 

[martinbayer]

I'm still hung up on that "anomalous second stage"...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

yeah, probably not my best wording, I think a G-2 would work fine

 

[publiusr]

If Glushko had cancer instead of Korolev...who knows?

Had they both died---Chelomei might have more of a chance--but that might also depend on Sergei's father surviving "eyebrows."

Chelomei might have gotten a small space plane built if unopposed...that might fit your scenario best.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Perhaps, maybe with a bit of political endorsement from Tikhonravov, who has so triumphed in ‘48 placing the first cosmonauts into space, would make sense that Malenkov would be swayed

 

[Michel Van]

sound more like this cluster of 3 G-4 rocket with Mig-105 spaceplane bolded to third G-4 booster
launch with two G-4, while third G-4 bring Mig-105 into Orbit...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

sound more like this cluster of 3 G-4 rocket with Mig-105 spaceplane bolded to third G-4 booster
launch with two G-4, while third G-4 bring Mig-105 into Orbit...

Yeah, probably would end up something like that to be fair

 

[Byeman]

If Glushko had cancer instead of Korolev...who knows?

Had they both died---Chelomei might have more of a chance--but that might also depend on Sergei's father surviving "eyebrows."

Chelomei might have gotten a small space plane built if unopposed...that might fit your scenario best.

no engines for anybody

 

[publiusr]

Kuznetsov might not have been the best…

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Kuznetsov might not have been the best…

how would you recommend the soviets go forward then? Tikhonravov does the first spaceflight in '47, but afterwards its a bit of a blank

 

[publiusr]

Not having Glushko would be a hindrance to be certain, but had Korolev lived he would have been easier to work with.

Personalities matter.

In sports they are called “intangibles.”

Hard to predict.

Another person besides Elon might have had the same money or more, and not moved as fast…we saw that with Bezos.

Gary Hudson had drive-but no money.

Having just the right conditions come together is as important in spaceflight as in evolution.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

fair enough, I never did say Korolev died, its just that, since this is the 40s-50s, the other scientists would have more precedence over korolev, so he can still be there, just at a lesser capacity.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I say, may any of you fine fellows be able to help in the identification of the components in this cutaway? It's a cutaway of the BIS suits' life support backpack, but in the book there was no key, so it's all greek to me. Any ideas?

 

[Sineva]

I say, may any of you fine fellows be able to help in the identification of the components in this cutaway? It's a cutaway of the BIS suits' life support backpack, but in the book there was no key, so it's all greek to me. Any ideas?

View attachment 727018

Theres a wired article which describes some of the numbered suit components
https://www.wired.com/2012/09/space-suit-1949/

There was also a rather nice replica of the suit built as well

https://museumcrush.org/the-british-interplanetary-society-lunar-spacesuit/

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Theres a wired article which describes some of the numbered suit components
https://www.wired.com/2012/09/space-suit-1949/

I have come across that article, though very informative, it does not have this cutaway, and only really mentions the backpack and its functions in passing.

 

[Sineva]

I have come across that article, though very informative, it does not have this cutaway, and only really mentions the backpack and its functions in passing.

I did find this,it still doesnt have great details tho

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I did find this,it still doesnt have great details tho

that is very helpful, and aided in my getting the layers of the suit down (until I twigged that only 4 layers probably wouldn't be all that effective for a suit, and so came up with the idea that the astronaut could wear a separate suit underneath as a combined cooling and protection garment, but thats for another time), but alas there is still no real concrete stuff about the backpack