M270 MLRS and M142 HIMARS Developments

https://defence-industry.eu/u-s-denies-sale-of-prsm-and-er-gmlrs-missiles-to-norway/

Norway has requested to buy PrSM as well as GMLRS-ER for their 16 new M142 HIMARS. The US at this time is not approving their sale - other websites are stating the sale is not approved because the munitions are too new and the US will not have sufficient stockpile for sometime.

IF that's true, it further exemplifies the need for all HIMARS style launchers to share a common launcher interface so you can build your own missiles locally or use competitors products. Being tied to one manufacturers missiles and being told oh no you can't buy any of the extended range munitions is a good way for that manufacturer to loose their market share.
 
kqcke for you said:
"Beaumont noted that MBDA has just finished the concept stage for LPS under contract to DE&S and is currently awaiting approval to move into an assessment and development phase with the weapon."

euro-sd.com

DVD2024: MBDA displays advanced iteration of Wolfram Surface-Launched Brimstone - European Security & Defence

MBDA exhibited an advanced iteration of its Wolfram Surface-Launched Brimstone (SLB) concept at DVD2024.
euro-sd.com euro-sd.com
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Given how well the Ukrainians have been using ground-launched Brimstones (Originally an air-launched weapon) in Ukraine I'd say that the British army will get behind this. On another note I wonder if a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3 will be developed and deployed from the M270 and M142?
 
NMaude said:
Given how well the Ukrainians have been using ground-launched Brimstones (Originally an air-launched weapon) in Ukraine I'd say that the British army will get behind this. On another note I wonder if a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3 will be developed and deployed from the M270 and M142?
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I think thats what they call LPS ^^
I mean yeah its a bit more but probaly the closest we get next to some form of Barracuda M (i believe atleast that Andruil will make a prototyp sometimes)
 
NMaude said:
Given how well the Ukrainians have been using ground-launched Brimstones (Originally an air-launched weapon) in Ukraine I'd say that the British army will get behind this. On another note I wonder if a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3 will be developed and deployed from the M270 and M142?
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Brimstone is already on the cards for deployment by the British Army under the BGOAA - MCCO/LFO programme. A couple of potential launchers...Boxer, ARES variant, Themis UGV or the Supacat Coyote with 8 round launcher. It looks like Supacat are in the lead so far for LFO, with Boxer for MCCO. Which makes sense to a degree....but sticking everything on Boxer is a very expensive way of doing things...

I suspect it will take a while though and Poland will likely deploy Brimstone on their tank destroyers before we deploy it.

Ground launched Spear (not SPEAR 3 thats the MoD programme name) now appears to be on the cards as the missile used for Land Precision Strike (LPS). Originally this was a CAMM/Brimstone mashup (it looked like CAMM but was in fact 178mm rather than 166mm) with a range of at least 80km. This missile was to be fired from M270A2 and Land Ceptor batteries (and by default Sea Ceptor as a result). But last year MBDA appear to have switched to a rocket boosted 'Spear-ER'. Basically a Spear that is 3m long, rather than c1.6m long and a rocket booster to get it to speed and altitude and different wing. We know little about it at present, apart from the fact its based on Spear, has a range of at least 150km and will be packed 6 per pod on M270A2. But....my guess is that range will be far in excess of 150km...Spear in air launched guise will have a range of at least 200km. The ground launched version has over twice the space for fuel and warhead. I suspect that it will have the larger warhead proposed for SpearGlide (c40kg) and more fuel occupying the remainder of the space. It 'could' have a range of 300km+...

A lot will depend on the Defence Review...

Ground launched Spear is a great idea, and I'm definitely in favour....but the CAMM/Brimstone mashup is now unlikely to go ahead, which is a real shame as its potential across the Army, Navy and Air Force was enormous, particularly with its ability to be fired from Land Ceptor and Sea Ceptor. The 'GL Spear-ER' proposal for LPS unfortunately will be a hot launch so not suitable for Land or Sea Ceptor batteries....but....it could also be adapted to air launch....you could get 2 in each F-35 bay for example (obviously minus rocket booster).

It's a real pity we're not doing both...can't imagine the CAMM/Brimstone version would cost that much to do at all...
 
Defense updates put out an interesting video a few days ago concerning the GMLRS-ER:


Officials from the United States Army’s Program Executive Office Missiles and Space (PEO MS) and Army Contracting Command (ACC)– Redstone Arsenal executed an Undefinitized contract award for Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rocket production. The contract awarded to Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control is worth $4.1 billion and will procure GMLRS, Extended-Range (ER) GMLRS missiles, and associated hardware.
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The interesting bit is the mention of ER-GMLRS. It’s evident that the ER variant is now getting into serious serial production.The systems are expected to be produced at the company’s Precision Fires Center of Excellence in Camden, Arkansas.
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In this video, Defense Updates analyzes how new ER-GMLRS would elevate the lethality of HIMARS & M270 MLRS ?
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#defenseupdates #himars #ukrainerussiawar
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Chapters:
00:11 INTRODUCTION
02:01 ER-GMLRS OVERVIEW
03:10 ER-GMLRS PROGRESS
05:52 ER GMLRS TECHNICAL DETAILS
06:55 ANALYSIS
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30-round MLRS pod coming?
The Army is developing a capability of reducing the diameter of rockets, so a Multiple Launch Rocket System, or MLRS, pod can carry up to 30, a dramatic increase from the six-per-pod solutions like the Guided MLRS.
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www.defensenews.com

Why the Army is looking abroad to close a widening artillery gun gap

Operations in Ukraine have proven artillery is essential, but needs to adapt. The Army continues to decipher a path to modernize artillery in its ranks.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
They keep harping on 227mm GMLRS…isn’t the ER version 240-250mm?

But certainly this would be an incredibly easy way to add artillery rocket density. There is no shortage of pallet loaders among the Army or MC.
 
Josh_TN said:
They keep harping on 227mm GMLRS…isn’t the ER version 240-250mm?

But certainly this would be an incredibly easy way to add artillery rocket density. There is no shortage of pallet loaders among the Army or MC.
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ER GLMRS is ~10 inches (254mm), but that doesn't really matter, because it fits in the same MFOM pod envelope as the other systems.

I actually worry that there might not be enough carrier vehicles given the demands for other logistics (including resupply of the existing MLRS launcher vehicles) I'd be intrigued to see this launcher mechanism permanently mounted on a truck chassis though.
 
I suspect the pallet loading fleet is more prolific than the Himars fleet. If nothing else such a design would only require more truck purchases and side step vehicle integration. More over I think pallet handlers are standardized across NATO, not just the U.S. services.
 
Josh_TN said:
I suspect the pallet loading fleet is more prolific than the Himars fleet. If nothing else such a design would only require more truck purchases and side step vehicle integration. More over I think pallet handlers are standardized across NATO, not just the U.S. services.
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Sure, but HIMARS at least isn't being tasked to do anything other than launch rockets.

I think it would be interesting to see a high-capacity MLRS launcher like this in the same units that get the MDAC artillery, especially if it can also double up as an air-defense launcher.
 
Is not IFPC already a palletized AD launcher? Although I do not think it is designed to fire from the vehicle. I think the whole AD idea is a reach by the contractor; there’s already stuff occupying that space.
 
IFPC only for short-range interceptors (maybe up to AMRAAM-size). I think the notional version of the LM launcher might be able to take PAC-3, even though it is longer than MOFM.
 
TomS said:
IFPC only for short-range interceptors (maybe up to AMRAAM-size). I think the notional version of the LM launcher might be able to take PAC-3, even though it is longer than MOFM.
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If it can fire from the vehicle, that would add mobility over the existing trailers. But otherwise I do not see the advantage, and I am doubtful the base TEU handler is a sufficiently stable firing platform.
 
Would it hurt them to make it look like a shipping container on the back?
 
timmymagic said:
Would it hurt them to make it look like a shipping container on the back?
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What reason for?

Not only is that type of hidding goes against everything the US military set up for and opens seasons all cargo gear.

But it will also make maintenance a PITA since now you have a very limited space to work in.

Honestly not worth it.
 
Firefinder said:
What reason for?

Not only is that type of hidding goes against everything the US military set up for and opens seasons all cargo gear.

But it will also make maintenance a PITA since now you have a very limited space to work in.

Honestly not worth it.
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Logistics cargo is fair game anyway.

But a dummy container enclosure would significantly impede reloading, and add weight to the whole apparatus.
 
That's actually bad for Ukraine needs. It's not as mobile as himars, would be easier to track and hit by the enemy.

It's good for long range stuff, maybe ER but atacms and Prsm specifically. But regular gmlrs would be a niche choice, in a more permissive environment.
 
Biggest I see is reloading the thing.

That going to take a hot minute due to the lack Crane on it.

But otherwise it should fire bout as fast as a Stand MLRS system.

So I can see it being useful for lay waste to an Area.


But honestly using it with the Long range weapons like the PRSMs will be better since it then will free up the more mobile and faster reaction M270 and M142 launchers for more tactic usage.
 

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