Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[Sundog]

Lockheed can only offer the price of the airframe without the propulsion system as the DOD negotiates the price of the propulsion system separately and so far, those negotiations have been quite contentious. I wouldn't trust the future cost estimates with the propulsion system as a result, but I think Lockheed's for the rest of the package is probably accurate.

 

[Dragon029]

The combined LRIP 9 & 10 propulsion contract reached handshake in January; all that we're waiting on for LRIP 10's flyaway costs is for Lockheed and the JPO to finalise negotiations (hopefully) early next year. If worst comes to worst, SecAF has said that another unilateral contract is on the table, although Lockheed would be more likely to challenge such a decision.

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-development-could-see-7-month-slip-530m-increase

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/07/marine-corps-f35-caught-fire-training-flight.html
https://defensetech.org/2016/12/20/pentagon-knew-f-35-weapons-bay-fire/

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/12/21/f-35s-400k-helmet-still-blinds-pilots-night-flights/

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/311429-trump-promises-to-cut-costs-of-air-force-one-project-beautifully

 

[bring_it_on]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NipKfnjyu_w

That Chris in the clip is Lt. General Christopher Bogdan

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a24459/norwegian-strike-missile-tested-over-utah/

 

[Flyaway]

OPINION: Trump's unfriendly fire threatens F-35

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/opinion-trumps-unfriendly-fire-threatens-f-35-432792/

 

[sferrin]

"As the most expensive procurement program in history, the F-35 program exemplifies both the promise and pitfalls of developing and deploying an advanced weapons platform. After years of delays and cost overruns, in 2016 the program reached an important milestone: the USAF, the largest buyer of the airplane, declared it combat ready. In reviewing defense procurement in 2016, The Cipher Brief revisits a Q&A with Marine Corps pilot Lt. Col. David Berke, who makes the case for the F-35's qualitative advantage over other jets.

The Cipher Brief: Can you explain why a 5th generation aircraft like the F-35 is qualitatively different than a 4th generation one such as the F-16 or F-18?"

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/article/qualitative-advantage-1091

 

[NeilChapman]

the text itself doesn't mention flyaway or engines. is there a line which explicitly says so? people in the comments are arguing about it but is there an article quoting lrip 9 flyaway price with engines?

http://www.businessinsider.com/lrip-9-f35-jet-2016-12

"The following is a breakdown of the unit price per variant in current year dollars (including aircraft, engine, and fee):

42 F-35A model aircraft: $102.1 million a jet

13 F-35B model aircraft: $131.6 million a jet

2 F-35C model aircraft: $132.2 million a jet"

 

[totoro]

Thank you! So next one is the one to dip below 100 million for A variant.

 

[NeilChapman]

Thank you! So next one is the one to dip below 100 million for A variant.

http://www.businessinsider.com/lrip-9-f35-jet-2016-12

"Having said that, I fully anticipate that when we do settle LRIP 10 you'll see all three variants, the A, the B, and the C come down in price significantly," Bogdan said.

And by "significantly" Bogdan added that he believes "somewhere on the order of 6 to 7 percent per airplane, per variant."

That's ~US$95M for A variant - NC

 

[NeilChapman]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pentagon-touts-lower-f-35-costs/article/2610026

Great pic of LHA-6 flight deck w/4-F35B's flying over.

 

[compton_effect]

I found this on Reddit recently. A very interesting read, albeit a bit long.

An actual F-18 Pilot weighs in on why Donald Trump's tweet that: "based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35 I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!" is "horribly wrong."
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5jtocu/trump_asks_boeing_for_f18_pitch_citing_tremendous/dbixlo6/?st=ixj2328o&sh=a02e206d

In summary:

• Cost - the F-35 isn't necessarily more expensive than the Super Hornet, and it is a cheaper beast going forward than standing pat with what we have
• The time to cancel the F-35 was a decade ago, not today, after the F-35 has already reached operational status
• The F-35 has had cost overruns and delays, yes, but those are in the past. It's pointless to start a competition now for a fighter jet we decided on 16 years ago
• The Super Hornet isn't the right plane for the Air Force, and is reaching its upgrade limits a lot quicker than the F-35 will
• The F-35 is the cornerstone of American airpower for the next few decades, and will be the cornerstone of Western airpower as well. This affects a whole lot more than a tiny fraction of the US budget

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2017/01/03/mattis-backs-f-35-stealth-fighter-criticized-trump/

 

[Deltafan]

https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/pentagon-establishes-red-team-investigate-f-35c-nose-gear-issues-recommends-possible

 

[fredymac]

A couple of annoying audio drops but interesting video on Danish test support for the F-35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR9g-4DFVvg

 

[Mike Pryce]

Latest DOT&E report is out

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2016/

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2016/pdf/dod/2016f35jsf.pdf

 

[SpudmanWP]

Figures that report would come out the same day as this:

First Marine Corps Squadron Deploys to Japan

The Marine Corps' first operational F-35B Joint Strike Fighter squadron {10 F-35Bs} is en route to Japan, where it will prepare for a wide-ranging deployment in the Pacific.

Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 departed its former headquarters at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona, on Monday en route to its new base at MCAS Iwakuni, Japan, officials with 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing announced Tuesday.

More at the jump
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/10/first-marine-corps-f35-squadron-deploys-japan.html

Anyone know how many of the -121's F-35Bs are headed to Japan?

 

[TomS]

Figures that report would come out the same day as this:

First Marine Corps Squadron Deploys to Japan

The Marine Corps' first operational F-35B Joint Strike Fighter squadron {10 F-35Bs} is en route to Japan, where it will prepare for a wide-ranging deployment in the Pacific.

Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 departed its former headquarters at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona, on Monday en route to its new base at MCAS Iwakuni, Japan, officials with 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing announced Tuesday.

Anyone know how many of the -121's F-35Bs are headed to Japan?

I believe it's the whole squadron, eventually 16 aircraft. This movement is 10 aircraft, with 6 more to come for a deployment with 31st MEU in the fall.

https://news.usni.org/2017/01/05/interview-lt-gen-bailey-says-f-35-closer-partnerships-will-enhance-operations-in-2017

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/08/marines-plan-school-hard-knocks-f-35s-1st-deployment/131167/

 

[sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mQU-hBAjzs

 

[SpudmanWP]

I believe it's the whole squadron, eventually 16 aircraft. This movement is 10 aircraft, with 6 more to come for a deployment with 31st MEU in the fall.

That's what I was referring too.

 

[TomS]

I believe it's the whole squadron, eventually 16 aircraft. This movement is 10 aircraft, with 6 more to come for a deployment with 31st MEU in the fall.

That's what I was referring too.

So now I'm confused. What was your question, if you already knew these numbers?

 

[NeilChapman]

I believe it's the whole squadron, eventually 16 aircraft. This movement is 10 aircraft, with 6 more to come for a deployment with 31st MEU in the fall.

That's what I was referring too.

So now I'm confused. What was your question, if you already knew these numbers?

I'm confused too. ;D

 

[SpudmanWP]

Sorry.. I was posting on several different sites and must have gotten who said what mixed up.

I would use the PBC excuse (Posting Before Coffee), but it was 6pm.

 

[bobbymike]

The "F-35" came before the "B-61" in the title so posted here instead of Nuke Weapons Thread

http://www.realcleardefense.com/2017/01/11/f-35_could_carry_b61_nuclear_warhead_sooner_than_planned_289334.html

 

[GTX]

F-35 Program Delivers 200th Operational Jet
(Source: F-35 Lightning II; issued Jan 11, 2017)

Tuesday marked a historical milestone for the F-35 Lightning II program.

The 200th operational jet, the second delivery for the Japan Air Self-Defense Force, departed Lockheed Martin’s Fort Worth production facility here and arrived approximately two hours later at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz.

Known as AX-2, the jet joins Luke’s F-35 fleet of 46 jets to train pilots from several F-35 partner countries.

The F-35 program continues to grow and accelerate as it now operates in 12 locations worldwide including Israel and Italy.

The program has also logged 75,000 flight hours while training more than 380 pilots and 3,700 maintainers.

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f-35-delayed-again-despite-ceos-promise-to-trump/article/2611432

 

[Dragon029]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f-35-delayed-again-despite-ceos-promise-to-trump/article/2611432

Isn't this the same story, different article you posted on the last page, last month (see below)?

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-development-could-see-7-month-slip-530m-increase

 

[Grey Havoc]

Nope, this is yet another additional delay.

 

[Dragon029]

I've just double checked and it is the same story; the only difference is that the Washington Examiner article is looking at the estimated delay as cited by Kendall, whereas the Aviation Week article cited Carter / Bogdan:

The F-35 will be delayed an additional seven months at a cost of at least $500 million

the Pentagon revealed that it is preparing for a delay of up to seven months in the new fighter’s development program and projecting cost growth of $530 million.

Also:

The seven-month delay means the system development and demonstration phase of the program won't be completed until May 2018, according to a letter Frank Kendall, the acquisition, technology and logistics undersecretary, sent to McCain.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter has directed the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) to prepare to continue flight testing through May of 2018, which would be a seven-month delay from the expected end date of Oct. 31, 2017, JPO Chief Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan said Dec. 19. However, Bogdan was adamant that the F-35’s System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase will be completed months before that deadline, by the end of February 2018.

And for what it's worth:

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in a statement, said the CEO's personal promise to President-elect Trump was "surprising" given a letter he received from the Pentagon last month detailing the latest delay.

 

[fredymac]

F-35s arrive at Iwakuni, Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq9MEIAIk7U

 

[FighterJock]

Wonder if this is possible?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/18/trump-wants-at-least-10-percent-cut-in-f-35-costs-report-says.html

 

[GTX]

Commit to a multi year (say 3 - 5yr) block buy and you might have a chance.

 

[Moose]

A block buy with containment would very likely mean significant savings. Not really news, the services and the watchdog agencies have indicated they want block buys for some time. Its been the legislature which has failed to embrace the concept. Sometimes for good reasons.

 

[SpudmanWP]

Sometimes for good reasons.

Not in this case.

 

[NeilChapman]

A block buy with containment would very likely mean significant savings. Not really news, the services and the watchdog agencies have indicated they want block buys for some time. Its been the legislature which has failed to embrace the concept. Sometimes for good reasons.

There is some disagreement between a "block buy" and a multi-year procurement. Here is a fairly good explanation concerning that discussion.

http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/congress/2016/f-35-chief-explains-block-buy.html

"According to Title 10 U.S.C., Section 2306b, for a program to be eligible for multi-year procurement, the contract must promote national security, should result in substantial savings, have little chance of being reduced, and have a stable design. The F-35 seems to be failing at least two of the first three criteria and is most certainly is failing the fourth. And as the 2015 DOT&E report shows, the operational testing that needs to take place in order for an informed final production decision will not be completed until 2022."

I have a feeling that PEOTUS is all about saving money. This is a good way to make that happen.

EDIT - Ooooo - I think I just went Top Secret. I'd like to thank my family and all of you that have supported me....

 

[SpudmanWP]

So while multi-year contracts at least afford some protections to the taxpayers block buys provide significantly fewer protections for taxpayers. As a Congressional Research Service report points out, block buy contract savings can be lower than those promised under multi-year procurement, and are not governed by any precautionary statutory requirements.

What some people forget is that while a Blok Buy is not as good as a multi-year contract, it's still heaps better than a year-to-year cycle of LRIPs like wese are doing now.

 

[bobbymike]

https://defensesystems.com/articles/2017/01/20/f35.aspx

 

[Dragon029]

USAF F-35As arrive at Nellis for Red Flag 17-1 (which starts tomorrow); this will be the first time USAF F-35s participate; VMFA-121 partook in 16-3 and did well, but that was with the B variant.
http://www.hill.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1055856/hill-fighter-wings-first-to-bring-f-35a-to-red-flag