Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

FighterJock said:
What about having the UK F-35Bs getting retrofitted with the GE engines when they finally arrive, I would have thought that it would be possible to do that.
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If it was possible it would need to be an exceptionally compelling business case to do so. And I don't think a new replacement engine, even if it was plug and play, would have the evidence in its early days to make that case around long term costs. And as every year any benefits would decrease accordingly.

The only circumstances that I could see it happening is if the F135 experienced serious technical issues relating to its longevity, safety or proved impossible to sustain. And I just can't see that happening so that purchasing $1bn of new engines, changing all the support, retraining etc would be worth it.
 
FighterJock said:
What about having the UK F-35Bs getting retrofitted with the GE engines when they finally arrive, I would have thought that it would be possible to do that.
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You are still missing the point - there is significant investment already made in having multiple global depots for the P&W F135. These given operators price advantages and global support already. To try to go for a new engine and/or individual country support solutions (which would be required in such a case) is fraught with danger and will cost a lot more.
 
FighterJock said:
A one off? That is a pity GTX.
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USN had these for other aircraft.
for example, the Super Hornets have the same boring grey scheme
but the CAG Super Hornets kept high viz squadron markings associated with 2nd and 3rd gen era aircraft.
 
But only 24 F-35As? I would have thought that the Czech Republic would have bought more, unless they are going to in the future.
 
GTX said:
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
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Based upon what evidence?
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GE was robbed in 2006-2010 because P&W wanted a monopoly and the JPO needed to divert the F136 money into overruns elsewhere. Hence the campaign to kill the F136. Note that, at the time, GE claimed that the F136 was designed for more power (and consequently cooling) than the F135 because the design was frozen later. Now we get to pay P&W for those things, sole-source.
 
Interesting, I wonder what the third Israel squadron will be that will get the F-35? Any ideas?
 
LowObservable said:
GTX said:
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
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Based upon what evidence?
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GE was robbed in 2006-2010 because P&W wanted a monopoly and the JPO needed to divert the F136 money into overruns elsewhere. Hence the campaign to kill the F136. Note that, at the time, GE claimed that the F136 was designed for more power (and consequently cooling) than the F135 because the design was frozen later. Now we get to pay P&W for those things, sole-source.
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Like GE wouldn't do exactly the same thing given the opportunity. That said I hope they do get the new engine because these things are going to be around a long time. (And one of the 3-stream engines would be better than having gone with the F136 IMO. Interesting that P&W seems scared of that possibility. Maybe GEs is better?)
 
sferrin said:
LowObservable said:
GTX said:
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
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Based upon what evidence?
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GE was robbed in 2006-2010 because P&W wanted a monopoly and the JPO needed to divert the F136 money into overruns elsewhere. Hence the campaign to kill the F136. Note that, at the time, GE claimed that the F136 was designed for more power (and consequently cooling) than the F135 because the design was frozen later. Now we get to pay P&W for those things, sole-source.
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Like GE wouldn't do exactly the same thing given the opportunity. That said I hope they do get the new engine because these things are going to be around a long time. (And one of the 3-stream engines would be better than having gone with the F136 IMO. Interesting that P&W seems scared of that possibility. Maybe GEs is better?)
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GE pretty much originated the three-stream engine under IHPTET, after P&W was selected for the F-22, and was certainly more visible when ADVENT (precursor to today's adaptive engines) started in 2007.
 
I should think that GE should get the F-35 contract since P&W seem to want GE to get out of the engine business for good and like sferrin says perhaps GE's engine is better than P&W's and they are running scared of competition.
 
FighterJock said:
I should think that GE should get the F-35 contract since P&W seem to want GE to get out of the engine business for good and like sferrin says perhaps GE's engine is better than P&W's and they are running scared of competition.
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GE are doing quite fine in their other programs (T700, F414, F404, GE90, CFM56, LEAP etc) and won't be leaving the engine business anytime soon.
 
GTX said:
FighterJock said:
I should think that GE should get the F-35 contract since P&W seem to want GE to get out of the engine business for good and like sferrin says perhaps GE's engine is better than P&W's and they are running scared of competition.
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GE are doing quite fine in their other programs (T700, F414, F404, GE90, CFM56, LEAP etc) and won't be leaving the engine business anytime soon.
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And there's still the upcoming opportunity for the NGAD engine.
 
I had forgotten about the NGAD engine competition sferrin, fingers and toes crossed that GE wins this time.
 
sferrin said:
GTX said:
FighterJock said:
I should think that GE should get the F-35 contract since P&W seem to want GE to get out of the engine business for good and like sferrin says perhaps GE's engine is better than P&W's and they are running scared of competition.
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GE are doing quite fine in their other programs (T700, F414, F404, GE90, CFM56, LEAP etc) and won't be leaving the engine business anytime soon.
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And there's still the upcoming opportunity for the NGAD engine.
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Don't forget that NGAD might be 600 engines over 10-15 years.

By 2025, the main applications for the LEAP and PW1000 engines (A320/321, A220, 737) should be absorbing 3,000 engines per year.

Military engines are fun but they're basically the change that P&W and GE lose down the back of the sofa.
 
I wonder what the lucky third Israeli fighter squadron will be bobbymike? Any ideas?
 
About the F-35 engine development, there's a non-zero chance the USAF views the F-35 as fundamentally unsuited for the Pacific and will direct funds elsewhere (NGAD, CCA).

Hence, Lockheed is desperate to get a re-engine in soonest, otherwise it'll see additional development for F-35 reduce to a trickle.
 

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