Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence

Due to the vagueness in the article I asked my contact in the 5th fleet AOR and he said it’s unlikely even the CO of Indianapolis knows exactly how many interceptions they did. It was a massive attack, where other ships were also engaging and the attack lasted 5 hours.
 
The Navy recently released a report on the munitions they've used in the Red Sea. No RAM or 57mm was listed.

The LCS might have been in theater but it wasn't intercepting anything.
 
Jimmo952 said:
The Navy recently released a report on the munitions they've used in the Red Sea. No RAM or 57mm was listed.

The LCS might have been in theater but it wasn't intercepting anything.
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Ok, I’m sure you’re correct and the admiral who gave the talk, and my own contact in theater are both wrong.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
Ok, I’m sure you’re correct and the admiral who gave the talk, and my own contact in theater are both wrong.
Click to expand...

The Navy just produced a report outlining the munitions uses. No mention of the mighty LCS.

The LCS might have been on station with a giant bullseye painted on it but it wasn't shooting anything down.

Just more cheerleading for a flawed money pit of a platform.
 
Jimmo952 said:
The Navy just produced a report outlining the munitions uses. No mention of the mighty LCS.

The LCS might have been on station with a giant bullseye painted on it but it wasn't shooting anything down.

Just more cheerleading for a flawed money pit of a platform.
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Because the navy has never withheld information.

Again, I will never understand why people like you think you know more than the people who actually have all the information available to you.

Enjoy thinking you know more than the admirals about what LCSes have been doing.
 
Just a few minutes of critical thinking can lead us to a few conclusions about these apparent contradictions.

1. The USN does want adversaries to know (or believe) that it would take a fairly significant investment of munitions to penetrate an LCS’s AA defenses.(almost guaranteed regardless of the other possible conclusions.)

2. a. The navy doesn’t want adversaries to know exactly how effective they are in the role which munitions expeditures could help them figure out.
2.b. Intercepts happened but took a lot more munitions to achieve (less effective than expected) and thus they don’t want adversaries to know that.

3. They released munitions from destroyers and cruisers because they’ve done so fantastic they really want adversaries to know our highest end surface combatants are extremely capable and reliable for the role.

Edit
4. The list was compiled and cleared for release before the indianpolis did its interceptions.
 
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johnpjones1775 said:
Again, I will never understand why people like you think you know more than the people who actually have all the information available to you.
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You’re claiming to be privy to secret knowledge because of an “insider contact.” I’m a fan of the LCS platform, but this is just a “he said she said” game with nothing backing your claims. Put up or shut up.
 
that_person said:
You’re claiming to be privy to secret knowledge because of an “insider contact.” I’m a fan of the LCS platform, but this is just a “he said she said” game with nothing backing your claims. Put up or shut up.
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Not secret just, unreleased.

I’ve backed up my claims, about interceptions. Admiral gave a talk and confirms at least two interceptions, by say missiles and drones. The link was shared above.
 
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Here we go. Way towards the bottom they have the wording of the actual citation.
www.twz.com

Littoral Combat Ship Can Now Rapidly Shoot Down Aerial Drones With Hellfire Missiles

Houthi attacks in the Red Sea prompted the Navy to rush the counter-drone Hellfire capability for the Freedom class into service.
www.twz.com www.twz.com


For outstanding service in support of military operations from 25 September 2024 to 27 September 2024. USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) effectively executed dynamic and kinetic responses to threats from Iranian-backed Houthi non-state actors emanating from the Red Sea in the Fifth Fleet Area of Responsibility (AOR)
From 25 September 2024 to 27 September 2024, USS Indianapolis (LCS 17), USS Stockdale (DDG 106), and USS Spruance (DDG 111) were operating off the coast of Yemen in the Red Sea conducting a northbound Bab-al-Mandeb transit when several salvos of enemy unmanned aerial vehicles and missiles were launched from Yemen, targeting the Surface Action Group (SAG). USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) provided early indications and warnings through the analysis of electronic signals, prioritizing potential threats, ensuring proper de-confliction orders across the force in the Electronic Warfare Spectrum, ensuring the SAG was prepared to respond to any hostile act in the Recognized Maritime Picture (RMP) and Recognized Air Picture (RAP). In response, the SAG engaged with Standard Missiles 2 (RIM-66), Standard Missiles 6 (RIM-176), and launched chaff eliminating the threats and enabling the SAG to continue its mission.

Edit
While there isn’t anything about indianpolis using their own weapons, it definitely sounds like she was the air warfare coordinator for the engagement if not the SAG in general.
 
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I'm trying to come in carefully here, but I wanted to untangle a few things

1) The CAR does not require that you fire on the enemy, only that you be involved in direct combat. Being shot at is sufficient.

2) With two AEGIS ships around, 100% one of them was AW. The description of Indy's role does not sound like AW anyway, but rather AQ or AZ, the command and control warfare coordinator or whatever they are calling the role now. Basically the electronic warfare boss. An LCS with some EW containers aboard would make sense for the job.

3) I can't find the specific quote that says Indy made 2 intercepts. But related to #2, if she was doing EW stuff, there are lots of soft-kill techniques that could down a drone without expending actual ordnance. The Marines downed an Iranian drone with EW a couple of years ago, using a mobile jammer parked on the flight deck of an amphib, for example. And of course, Ukraine has dropped a lot of Russian Shahed drones using EW techniques.
 
TomS said:
I'm trying to come in carefully here, but I wanted to untangle a few things

1) The CAR does not require that you fire on the enemy, only that you be involved in direct combat. Being shot at is sufficient.

2) With two AEGIS ships around, 100% one of them was AW. The description of Indy's role does not sound like AW anyway, but rather AQ or AZ, the command and control warfare coordinator or whatever they are calling the role now. Basically the electronic warfare boss. An LCS with some EW containers aboard would make sense for the job.

3) I can't find the specific quote that says Indy made 2 intercepts. But related to #2, if she was doing EW stuff, there are lots of soft-kill techniques that could down a drone without expending actual ordnance. The Marines downed an Iranian drone with EW a couple of years ago, using a mobile jammer parked on the flight deck of an amphib, for example. And of course, Ukraine has dropped a lot of Russian Shahed drones using EW techniques.
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2 intercepts bit was a deduction of a minimum from what the admiral said about intercepting drones and missiles.

Also the CAR requires more than ‘just be shot at’ it requires active engagement.
 
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johnpjones1775 said:
USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) effectively executed dynamic and kinetic responses to threats
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So I understand that Indianapolis provided early warning and was coordinating air defense for the SAG.That makes the statement aboves intriguing since what was Indianapolis shooting at?
 
I
yeetmahboi said:
So I understand that Indianapolis provided early warning and was coordinating air defense for the SAG.That makes the statement aboves intriguing since what was Indianapolis shooting at?
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it does, but they may keeping that under wraps.
Seems on brand based on what I know.
There’s a lot of unclassified information about LCSes and their achievements that hasn’t been publicly released.

As I’ve said, I have a buddy who is a CO forward deployed to the 5th fleet. It’s unclassified so he can legally tell me, but there’s some reason it’s not being published, so I won’t break his confidence
 
So the Freedom class will now carry 24 Hellfire missiles. That's great, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, the range of a Hellfire is about 8 km. Lockmart has self-funded the development of a JAGM-Medium Range which doubles the range of the JAGM and Hellfire from 8 km to about 16. It also has a third seeker mode, a "Near Infrared" seeker. This missile is envisioned for vertical launch from the JAGM quad launcher. Essentially, it would be a perfect upgrade for the LCS. Double the range of the Hellfire and RIM-116, at probably half the cost of the RIM-116. I'd expect the JAGM-MR to come in around the $500k per AUR range.

This is still far too expensive for anti-drone work, to be honest. A JAGM at $250k - $350k is already approaching the cost of a Stinger, and JAGM-MR would obviously cost more. JAGM-MR would make the Freedom class even more capable, though, so hopefully they make the switch from Longbow.

www.lockheedmartin.com

JAGM-MR: The Future of JAGM

With Lockheed Martin’s focus on 21st century security and helping our customers stay ahead of ready, it is important that we develop and deliver mission-focused defense capabilities by innovating with agility, urgency and affordability as we continue to build upon and strengthen our core product...
www.lockheedmartin.com www.lockheedmartin.com
 
joshjosh said:
So the Freedom class will now carry 24 Hellfire missiles. That's great, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, the range of a Hellfire is about 8 km. Lockmart has self-funded the development of a JAGM-Medium Range which doubles the range of the JAGM and Hellfire from 8 km to about 16. It also has a third seeker mode, a "Near Infrared" seeker. This missile is envisioned for vertical launch from the JAGM quad launcher. Essentially, it would be a perfect upgrade for the LCS. Double the range of the Hellfire and RIM-116, at probably half the cost of the RIM-116. I'd expect the JAGM-MR to come in around the $500k per AUR range.

This is still far too expensive for anti-drone work, to be honest. A JAGM at $250k - $350k is already approaching the cost of a Stinger, and JAGM-MR would obviously cost more. JAGM-MR would make the Freedom class even more capable, though, so hopefully they make the switch from Longbow.

www.lockheedmartin.com

JAGM-MR: The Future of JAGM

With Lockheed Martin’s focus on 21st century security and helping our customers stay ahead of ready, it is important that we develop and deliver mission-focused defense capabilities by innovating with agility, urgency and affordability as we continue to build upon and strengthen our core product...
www.lockheedmartin.com www.lockheedmartin.com
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If it makes sense you know the navy won’t do it, or find some way to make it way too complicated.

They should probably make modules for the topside spaces for them rather than refit the VLHF (vertical launched hellfire) in the bow. Likely cheaper, easier, less risk of fucking the whole program up yet again.
 
joshjosh said:
So the Freedom class will now carry 24 Hellfire missiles. That's great, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, the range of a Hellfire is about 8 km. Lockmart has self-funded the development of a JAGM-Medium Range which doubles the range of the JAGM and Hellfire from 8 km to about 16. It also has a third seeker mode, a "Near Infrared" seeker. This missile is envisioned for vertical launch from the JAGM quad launcher. Essentially, it would be a perfect upgrade for the LCS. Double the range of the Hellfire and RIM-116, at probably half the cost of the RIM-116. I'd expect the JAGM-MR to come in around the $500k per AUR range.
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NIR is basically Low Light Level TV or modern night vision sensors.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
Because the navy has never withheld information.

Again, I will never understand why people like you think you know more than the people who actually have all the information available to you.

Enjoy thinking you know more than the admirals about what LCSes have been doing.
Click to expand...

There has been so much spin and BS associated with LCS since the beginning that it's easy to be cynical about it.
 
Jimmo952 said:
Perhaps this is a clue of what was going on in the Red Sea, but it's admittedly just conjecture.

www.navalnews.com

U.S. Navy LCS Receive Upgraded C-UAS Hellfire Missiles - Naval News

U.S. Navy LCS can now down drones using Hellfire missiles through a new upgrade on the class' Surface-to-Surface Missile Module.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
Click to expand...

They sort of answer the question at the bottom of the article:

While Lehmann highlighted that the system was operationally deployed, he also told reporters that no drones were downed by the Longbow Hellfires carried in the embarked missile module. One engagement saw all threats downed by other assets before they entered Indianapolis’ range.
Click to expand...

So Indy was present, but the AEGIS ships were the shooters.
 
TomS said:
They sort of answer the question at the bottom of the article:



So Indy was present, but the AEGIS ships were the shooters.
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I know y’all won’t like this, but asked my buddy about it, because of the weird contradictory information.

The engagement was not like others, and that specific details are classified and being withheld for OPSEC to keep the Houthis from being able to figure out new tactics to use against us.

The Indy was a lot more than simply present. Indy was the AAW coordinator for the SAG.
 
Jimmo952 said:
There has been so much spin and BS associated with LCS since the beginning that it's easy to be cynical about it.
Click to expand...
What spin? Almost all coverage and news about either LCS class has been almost completely negative until the last year or 2.
Honestly I’ve seen more positive press about LCSes in the last 3 months than the entire decade preceding.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
I know y’all won’t like this, but asked my buddy about it, because of the weird contradictory information.

The engagement was not like others, and that specific details are classified and being withheld for OPSEC to keep the Houthis from being able to figure out new tactics to use against us.

The Indy was a lot more than simply present. Indy was the AAW coordinator for the SAG.
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Prove it.
 
Jimmo952 said:
Prove LCS was shooting down incoming ordinance in the Red Sea.

It didn't happen.
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I didn’t say it did. An admiral however has said it happened.
I said details about the engagement are classified.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. We won’t know for sure for years.

You don’t have to believe me, keep being bitter though.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
I didn’t say it did. An admiral however has said it happened.
I said details about the engagement are classified.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. We won’t know for sure for years.

You don’t have to believe me, keep being bitter though.
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I suspect the friend giving this top secret information is your mom.
 
Arjen said:
Well, more likely induction.
In this case likely to mean 'Listen, I didn't actually see/hear/got told this happened, but it's obvious, right?'.
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The admiral said Indy intercepted drones and missiles.
The logical conclusion from that is a minimum of 2 interceptions one of each.
 
@johnpjones1775 From your own link in reply #812 (how time flies)
USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) provided early indications and warnings through the analysis of electronic signals, prioritizing potential threats, ensuring proper de-confliction orders across the force in the Electronic Warfare Spectrum, ensuring the SAG was prepared to respond to any hostile act in the Recognized Maritime Picture (RMP) and Recognized Air Picture (RAP). In response, the SAG engaged with Standard Missiles 2 (RIM-66), Standard Missiles 6 (RIM-176), and launched chaff eliminating the threats and enabling the SAG to continue its mission.”
Click to expand...
SM2 and SM6 fired by the Surface Action Group downed the threats. I believe Indianapolis doesn't carry those.
johnpjones1775 said:
Admiral said they did
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Quote of source. Please.
 
I’m
Arjen said:
@johnpjones1775 From your own link in reply #812 (how time flies)

SM2 and SM6 fired by the Surface Action Group downed the threats. I believe Indianapolis doesn't carry those.

Quote of source. Please.
Click to expand...
the article has already been posted at the top of this page.

Edit
Went back and looks like they edited the article since I posted it.
So maybe the original was a typo or maybe someone else contacted them requesting the change.

It went from something like ‘intercepting drones and missiles’
To “as Houthi drones and missiles flew overhead.”
 
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