L2VMA and LARA (Light Armed Reconnaissance Aircraft) designs

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

I spent the day yesterday scanning photos and documents in the Gerald Balzer collection and found the attached AvWeek article on the Beech PD-183 in the Beech folders.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a drawing to Lockheed CL-760,shows the armament mounted location,FliegerRevue 11/1977.

 

[fightingirish]

A 3view of the OV-10A Bronco light utility transport version


Source: Interavia Germany, September 1969, page 1416

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I don't know if that USAF SOR-222 contest emerged from LARA or not,it was a
Super COIN proposed for a strike recce and utility transport counter insurgency,
here's all details I have,who know more ?.


Flying Review 1/1966

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Tony Buttler

Hi All. Went to the Heathrow Air Fair on Sunday at Kempton Park Racecourse and picked up the attached. It is the artwork for the Douglas D-855 COIN aircraft - twin engine turboprop. Hope it proves of interest. Very best wishes, Tony.

 

[hesham]

From Tony Buttler

Hi All. Went to the Heathrow Air Fair on Sunday at Kempton Park Racecourse and picked up the attached. It is the artwork for the Douglas D-855 COIN aircraft - twin engine turboprop. Hope it proves of interest. Very best wishes, Tony.

Nice,thank you my dears Paul and Tony.

 

[Stargazer]

It is the artwork for the Douglas D-855 COIN aircraft - twin engine turboprop. Hope it proves of interest.

It does! Thanks a lot to Tony for sharing this beautiful painting.

 

[Triton]

Hi,


I don't know if that USAF SOR-222 contest emerged from LARA or not,it was a
Super COIN proposed for a strike recce and utility transport counter insurgency,
here's all details I have,who know more ?.


Flying Review 1/1966

Wasn't Super COIN another name for Phase I of the AX program? When the United States Air Force was interested in a replacement for the Douglas A-1E Skyraider with a new aircraft with the notional designation A-8A circa 1966? Should we move this post to the AX program thread?

See:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2615.msg244459.html#msg244459

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Lockheed CL-760 LARA COIN Photos

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Photo-Small-Assault-Aircraft-Vintage-4-5-x-7-Glossy-Armed-to-the-Teeth/171858888944
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Photo-Small-Assault-Aircraft-Vintage-8-x-10-Glossy-Experimental/181803623885
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Photo-Small-Assault-Aircraft-Vintage-8-x-10-Glossy-Experimental/181803624569

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Added to topic.

 

[Triton]

Nice find, Paul.

 

[yasotay]

Yes, Thank you very much. The entire LARA effort is very interesting to me and the Lockheed proposal always seemed one of the more practical solutions.

 

[Wahubna]

Hi boys,
searching the previous posts about the LARA/COIN requirement (one of my favourite matters, for various and complex reasons) I found that some pictures I Have were never enclosed.
Two of them are particularly intriguing as I cannot say if are pure fiction or some real projetcs. The pictures are clipping (without any note about the subject) from two different advertisings; i think from an aircraft engine manifacturer and published on 'Aviation Week' circa 1967.
One other is the full scale mock-up of the Martin entry (rarely seen and still without known designation, I think).
The last is a cutaway drawing of the transport version of North American Na-300 (NA-301?).
Hoping you enjoy all


Nico

That NA300/301 is all kinds of cool...Might make a great little brother for the modern Shorts 330/S-23. More information would be great.

Maybe I missed it, but could some explain why they are all twin engine and why they are all stubby in span & length? Was there a stipulation on number of engines & overall dimensions?

 

[GeorgeA]

They were intended for STOL operation out of very tight spaces, so compactness was a virtue. Also, they were intended to be inexpensive, agile, and transferable to less sophisticated allied forces, so a small and simple design was favored.

 

[Avimimus]

Maybe I missed it, but could some explain why they are all twin engine and why they are all stubby in span & length? Was there a stipulation on number of engines & overall dimensions?

Post #4 (Overscan quoting the Wikipedia):

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,344.msg2070.html#msg2070

Now, of course, there is the question of whether follow-on requirements were as strict and if there were any appeals to have part of the requirement waived.

After all, the original LARA requirement was built around a recoilless rifle and was quite a bit smaller than the Ov-10 turned out to be.

 

[Wahubna]

Maybe I missed it, but could some explain why they are all twin engine and why they are all stubby in span & length? Was there a stipulation on number of engines & overall dimensions?

Post #4 (Overscan quoting the Wikipedia):
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,344.msg2070.html#msg2070

Now, of course, there is the question of whether follow-on requirements were as strict and if there were any appeals to have part of the requirement waived.

After all, the original LARA requirement was built around a recoilless rifle and was quite a bit smaller than the Ov-10 turned out to be.

I did not read anything in there stipulating such short lengths and short wings. As the flight test report of the Charger indicates, the compact dimensions compromised the handling. The closest requirement I just read states they should be capable of carrier ops. So I guess the carrier elevator limited the span & lengths? But then, why not have a folding outer few feet of wing? They all seem far shorter in length than a beast like the F-4, F-8, or A-7.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Wingspan was limited to about 20 ft by an initial Marines-only requirement (L2VMA - Light Light Marine Attack Aircraft) to use roads as airstrips. This was subsequently removed in the tri-service LARA requirement and NAA went for much larger wings with the OV-10, while others including Convair stuck to their initial short-span concept.

 

[Wahubna]

Wingspan was limited to about 20 ft by an initial Marines-only requirement (L2VMA - Light Light Marine Attack Aircraft) to use roads as airstrips. This was subsequently removed in the tri-service LARA requirement and NAA went for much larger wings with the OV-10, while others including Convair stuck to their initial short-span concept.

That makes sense. Pretty amazing the USMC contemplated that requirement considering how much it can harm an aircraft designed for STOL.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Tony Buttler

Hi All. Went to the Heathrow Air Fair on Sunday at Kempton Park Racecourse and picked up the attached. It is the artwork for the Douglas D-855 COIN aircraft - twin engine turboprop. Hope it proves of interest. Very best wishes, Tony.

Here's a photo of the D-855 partial mockup.

Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology, May 25, 1964

 

[allysonca]

Just finished from my collection........Modified Topping/Precise OV-10 to the OV-10T. Enjoy

 

[hesham]

Amazing,many thanks.

 

[circle-5]

Kaman K-16 Manufacturer's proposal model. Note control surfaces on prop blades.

 

[hesham]

Wow,what a beautiful day,thank you my dear Circle-5.

 

[circle-5]

The actual Douglas proposal model of the D-855, which accompanied the 3-ring binders to Washington. All LARA proposal models were built at the same, unusually small 1/72 scale – undoubtedly a DoD requirement.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Very cool - thanks! Mark

 

[Triton]

Thank you for sharing circle-5.

 

[Pioneer]

Stumbled across this coloured photo of the Martin LARA mock up!

(Source: The Greatest Planes That Never Were)

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

Wow,nice find my dear Pioneer.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Nice find - thanks! Mark

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Nice - but it looks colourized to me, not a genuine colour pic.

 

[GTX]

Nice - but it looks colourized to me, not a genuine colour pic.

I thought the same thing.

 

[Pioneer]

Sorry gents, if that is the case
Didn't notice that on my phone - these eyes are getting old

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Orionblamblam]

... this coloured photo ...

Not the preferred nomenclature.

 

[GTX]

these eyes are getting old

I hear you... ;D

 

[circle-5]

Goodyear GA-39 proposal model.

 

[Bill S]

Vought V-458 Low Speed Wind Tunnel Model Drawings

I am pretty sure this design was considered for the LARA,
as the drawing is from 2/63 and in the title block of some
of the detail drawings has "COIN aircraft".

Source: Vought History Collection

bill

Just to add to my previous post. The V-458 got as far as wind tunnel testing, still looking to see if a formal proposal was assembled or submitted. Vought photos

bill

 

[hesham]

Amazing,thank you my dear Bill.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

More negatives of the V-458 design in the Vought Low Speed Wind Tunnel from the VAHF collection. Note that there is now a fairing off the aft portion of the canopy/cockpit.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[AeroFranz]

Hahaha, i saw the topic update and Mark's name, so i knew something good was going to be posted! ;D
nice pics, i wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to study separation issues behind the cockpit. The tufts would certainly help with that.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Hahaha, i saw the topic update and Mark's name, so i knew something good was going to be posted! ;D

Yep, always keen to see what Mark's posting.