Kriegsmarine - KM Ship Plans/Discussion

[lukasgrul]

Do you have more detailed blueprints of the 21000t design of aircraft carrier?

 

[Force Lord]

Do you have more detailed blueprints of the 21000t design of aircraft carrier?

Best I could find is from this Russian site: http://seawarpeace.ru/deutsch/flug/01_main/03_21.html

 

[lukasgrul]

Thank you very much

 

[gibeau patrick]

Hello, does anyone have the plans for the catapult for the arado 196 mounted on the casar turret of the gneisenau or the scharhnorst.
CORDIALLY
patrick

 

[lukasgrul]

I don´t know much about it but I think that it is an ordinary FL-22 catapult found on other german ships like Admiral Hipper class, Deutschland class atc. I think that same catapult was to be on Graf Zeppelin also. Only picture I have is that from Graf Zeppelin, but I will try to find it for you.

 

[lukasgrul]

Does anybody know how many arresting gear cables would Europa have?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Wow Sarcasticat. I do not know how you got the drawings, but wow and thank you. I have spent the last few years looking for information on Panzershiff Lutzow, and in 5 minutes bang.

Do you have any drawings for 1936A Mob destroyer or 1937 Type torpedo boat T13-T21?

I think I have a couple of plans for the 36A Mob and at least some general layout line drawings for the Type 1937 in pictures of books, but you need to do a little digging.

 

[Jemiba]

For the waiting time, until better drawings come up, here are the Zerstörer 1936A (Mob) and T 20, as
shown in Haral Fock's book "Z-vor !" volume 2

 

[lukasgrul]

Here are sarcasticats blueprints of aircraft carriers. Only thing I did was to make from multiple scans only one full length.

 

[lukasgrul]

How can I share my google disc to this forum? I can´t put here some blueprints because they are to big.

 

[NinjaGamer_5]

the De Grasse’s runway looks a bit odd at the bow. From what I’ve seen of Carriers, the runways always have a rectangular shape, not an oblong shape. Are there any advantages to having one?

 

[NinjaGamer_5]

Oh wait I wasn’t looking close enough now I see the square end

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

How can I share my google disc to this forum? I can´t put here some blueprints because they are to big.

Your Google Drive? You will need to share a link, which you should be able to get by clicking on the name of the folder you want to share, clicking "Share" and copying and pasting the link provided.

 

[lukasgrul]

Well here are some blueprints that I will provide right now, but don´t vorry I will provide more. And thank you to all of you who helped me with research of the Europa only with your help I was able to make this shipbucket drawing. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ixMaAnsBhybza8Ka4qLodId-wvvvgmfs?usp=sharing

 

[Tzoli]

Didn't you put the bridge superstructure on the wrong side?

 

[alexi]

Aircraft Carrier B also digitalized too, only the first part (main drawings) and there are two designs (one with island and one full flush-deck, with side exhausts.)

 

[alexi]

I'll thinking about it, except Aircraft Carrier B because their massive file sizes.

The twin 34cm/45 is present on at least one pre-1910 design IIRC (Schnell und Stark and/or Stortebecker II),

You mean Stortebecker II fast battleship? S&S is Nassau like hull but long, narrow armed with 28cm and 21cm, i might to post the rests and hoping their file sizes bearable.

 

[lukasgrul]

Didn't you put the bridge superstructure on the wrong side?

I actually didn´t if you click on link on google drive i posted yesterday you can find blueprint this is based on.

 

[lukasgrul]

I am so happy reading that the Flugzeugtrager B is finally digitalized.

 

[Wurger]

Aircraft Carrier B also digitalized too, only the first part (main drawings) and there are two designs (one with island and one full flush-deck, with side exhausts.)

Alexi, can you please give the link to the flush-deck version?

 

[alexi]

Alexi, can you please give the link to the flush-deck version?

Here's picture, direct link doesn't work on invenio am afraid.

 

[Wurger]

Here's picture, direct link doesn't work on invenio am afraid.
View attachment 705842

Thanks a lot. Are you sure it was a flush-decker?

 

[Kanga]

If it was flush-decked, how would it be conned? There doesn't appear to be a bridge structure under the front of the flight deck, where it was located on the flush-decked Japanese carriers.

 

[alexi]

Thanks a lot. Are you sure it was a flush-decker?

Ah sorry for misinformation, i was assuming because some minor differences and there's some ducts tapering on the side, so i thought is a flush-decker, that one probably show a different sections of the hull.
Here's island one.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Here is some intresting armoured cruiser projects from the Bundesarchive (Ive reduced the size of each file bymyself)
First a some sort of preliminary layout for Fürst Bismarck, then a seriously upgunned (18 15cm !) Prinz Heinrich, and set of 1907 vintage of small (~7000ts) armoured cruisers from the era of battlecruisers. I would really be intressed to find out more of these designs, as they go so much against the main trends of the time and the rather sticky Fleet-law based construction plans.

Love the look of the German St. Louis. That's a lotta 15cm guns.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Ah sorry for misinformation, i was assuming because some minor differences and there's some ducts tapering on the side, so i thought is a flush-decker, that one probably show a different sections of the hull.
Here's island one.
View attachment 705848

Noting the inclusion of the 15cm secondary battery and unchanged machinery plant...virtually 1:1 GZ 1936. I wonder if there are later revisions of Fzt B.

 

[lukasgrul]

Do you think that flugzeugtrager B as it shows trumpeter is at least a bit realistic?

 

[alexi]

Here's the recently digitalized 20000 tons hybrid cruiser-carrier with 12.8cm DP, no specifications and seems to be inspired from Prinz Eugen hull.

 

[lukasgrul]

Super cool I didn´t know anything like this germans would propose. I don´t understand placement of this rangefinder. It is always much lower.

 

[alexi]

It screams low-profile when you look at it, short island height and single hangar (20-22 aircraft) and an pick up crane to recover spotter plane?, don't think its an actual proposal nor any serious design, it definitely designed by one of the many committees who works on hybrid battleship-carriers.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Here's the recently digitalized 20000 tons hybrid cruiser-carrier with 12.8cm DP, no specifications and seems to be inspired from Prinz Eugen hull.
View attachment 706016

128s are in Drh L C/38's, but the elevation is much higher than the 65 degrees on the production model. Maybe an altered design with greater elevation. Still odd...only in were 1942 was diesel-only designs considered, and of course only in 1940 was there V-engine designs such as this one...the shape of the Drh L C/41 was well-known by this point, so these are certainly Drh L C/38s. I wonder if they are using the SK C/34.
Either way, that's a 10-gun 5" broadside. Enough to make DDs think very carefully, and with that elevation aircraft should also be wary. Well, I would say that if the 10.5cm/65 wasn't a vastly superior AAA weapon to pair with those SL triaxial directors, unless modifications to the Drh L C/38 suddenly include triaxial stabilization.
Maybe. Maybe not.
I wonder if this design features the V12Z 42/58 or the 32/44? Given the sizes, probably the 32/44...in which case 120,000 hp at 10,000 hp 100% output to be expected around 1942. No different than the steam plant, yet offers greatly increased range and survivability.

What a beautifully odd duck this is. You've been doing wonderfully well with these finds recently Alexi. However, an RM number posted along with it would be helpful in my search for them later.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Yes , I agree with you. The reduction of SL-6 rangefinders and 105mm guns is weird. But plating over 150mm casemates might indicate bigger hangar, or at least I think so. Or when germany didn´t need GZ for original role they would uninstall the 150mm guns to save weight and space for other AA ammo. Everything is only my idea, so don´t take it so seriously please, I am just wondering why trumpeter did these modifications.

I suspect Trumpeter believes that FzT B would be practically 1:1 GZ, at least until it was past the point of construction where the 15cm sponsons had already been added...from there the usual idea that they would be removed comes into play...while removing the ammo storage for alternative use would be a good idea, the 15cm twins actually do not take up much internal space themselves. Maybe some sort of story revolving around increasing aircraft fuel capacity by reducing ammo storage is in play here...but I definitely would not do that by removing 10.5cm AAA.

 

[alexi]

However, an RM number posted along with it would be helpful in my search for them later.

RM 25/22470, the same place you found the Atlantic Battleship-Carrier hybrids and invenio got updated again, time for some digging.

 

[MrMemerMan]

Is there any armor data regarding H-40a and H-40b?

 

[lukasgrul]

Is there any armor data regarding H-40a and H-40b?

Look in the google drive on first page there you will find almost everything that was shown on this forum.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Is there any armor data regarding H-40a and H-40b?

I believe there was, either in Breyer's Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905-1970 or in the NavTechEU documents for H-class battleships...I think I've posted both of those in the Share Drive.

 

[alexi]

Never mind that post, have a brainfart moment, what i means the rear catapult use as either launching scout planes (and recovered via loading crane) or act as 3rd launchers for faster strike pack.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Never mind that post, have a brainfart moment, what i mean the rear catapult could use as either launching scout planes (and recovered via loading crane) or act as 3rd launchers for efficiency.

This is one of the most interesting German carrier designs I have seen, with pure DP armament its closer to a pure carrier than the Atlantic hybrids were and the diesel propulsion should have offered very impressive range. I agree with @_Sarcasticat_ that the most likely engine is the V24Z 32/44 for a total of 120,00SHP. The rotating hangar deck catapult at the aft of the hangar is reminiscent of the hangar deck catapults the US Navy briefly used, the aircraft shown suspended from the hangar ceiling is also similar to USN practice.

The hangar deck catapult does impinge on hangar space though, it appears to take-up sufficient space for three additional Ju-87s. If the hangar deck catapult was removed and the Me-109 variants given folding wings it looks possible to comfortably fit 28 aircraft in the hangar where it currently shows storage (on the deck, excluding any hung from the ceiling) for 22 - a 27% increase.

It would be great if we could find a data table for this design.

 

[Hood]

It's one of the better of the German hybrids that I've ever seen.
Still not sure all those forward turrets would be a good idea given the turbulent air they would cause over the flightdeck but it seems a more usable design overall.
It seems to have a very heavy AA-oriented armament so I presume this dates from 1941-42 period? It still feels odd why they chose a cruiser layout given it only has 12.8cm guns, a traditional carrier layout with sided mounts would still provide good defensive arcs. I'm not particularly convinced such a battery really allows for traditional 'cruiser' employment, even against merchants.

 

[lukasgrul]

It's one of the better of the German hybrids that I've ever seen.
Still not sure all those forward turrets would be a good idea given the turbulent air they would cause over the flightdeck but it seems a more usable design overall.
It seems to have a very heavy AA-oriented armament so I presume this dates from 1941-42 period? It still feels odd why they chose a cruiser layout given it only has 12.8cm guns, a traditional carrier layout with sided mounts would still provide good defensive arcs. I'm not particularly convinced such a battery really allows for traditional 'cruiser' employment, even against merchants.

I think that would use Richelieu like tactic. They would go bow in against them and show as little broadside as possible.