KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

[FighterJock]

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

Can't say that I'm surprised, would make a lot of sense considering the the f-50 order and the work being done with the K-2PL

Will not happen anytime soon. Their fighter jet procurement plan (originally called for around 100 fighter jets in the late 90s) is now complete with the purchase of the FA-50PL. Should they procure any Boramaes, it would be to replace their F-16s, but those were introduced between 2006 and 2009 and the Polish defence planning outlined a planned upgrade for these Falcons.

Though, it is safe to assume that their upgraded Falcons will get phased out around the time (or a bit later than) the point when Korean Falcons will start to get phased out, which means there's a room for cooperation for a future joint Falcon replacement fighter program.

Consdering the state of the world right now i wouldn't be supised if poland dose join in (after all that 100 fighter then was dropped in 2000 for a different plan anyway) russia looks like its starting to unfuck its airforce and if thats the case poland is probably going to be looking for a kf-21 block 2 5th gen fighter to go along with there f-35 order ( i doubt the polish air force would consider upgraded f-16s good enough in that case)

Poland purchasing the KF-21 would not surprise me either Cjc, it would be a good choice for the Polish Air Force in the long run and with a new variant potentially being at the back of the order as well.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Consdering the state of the world right now i wouldn't be supised if poland dose join in (after all that 100 fighter then was dropped in 2000 for a different plan anyway) russia looks like its starting to unfuck its airforce and if thats the case poland is probably going to be looking for a kf-21 block 2 5th gen fighter to go along with there f-35 order ( i doubt the polish air force would consider upgraded f-16s good enough in that case)

That is true indeed and I also know that the 100 fighter procurement plan was altered. I mean, it's apparent when they still fly MiGs and Sukhois. Though the underlying force demand wouldn't have changed all that much I expect.

 

[kaiserd]

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

Can't say that I'm surprised, would make a lot of sense considering the the f-50 order and the work being done with the K-2PL

Will not happen anytime soon. Their fighter jet procurement plan (originally called for around 100 fighter jets in the late 90s) is now complete with the purchase of the FA-50PL. Should they procure any Boramaes, it would be to replace their F-16s, but those were introduced between 2006 and 2009 and the Polish defence planning outlined a planned upgrade for these Falcons.

Though, it is safe to assume that their upgraded Falcons will get phased out around the time (or a bit later than) the point when Korean Falcons will start to get phased out, which means there's a room for cooperation for a future joint Falcon replacement fighter program.

Consdering the state of the world right now i wouldn't be supised if poland dose join in (after all that 100 fighter then was dropped in 2000 for a different plan anyway) russia looks like its starting to unfuck its airforce and if thats the case poland is probably going to be looking for a kf-21 block 2 5th gen fighter to go along with there f-35 order ( i doubt the polish air force would consider upgraded f-16s good enough in that case)

By that same reasoning Poland shouldn’t have bought the FA-50; by that logic how are they going to survive/ prove useful long term against the current yet alone future Russian airforce and air defences?

A KF-21 buy in the future is possible but at least equally likely would be more F-35s or interest in the joint projects being under taken by France/Germany/Spain and by Japan/UK/Italy respectively. And if it is ultimately survivability and capability that is really driving Polish requirements the F-16 force could/ should out live the newer FA-50s.

And this isn’t meant as an attack on the FA-50; it’s procurement (as with a lot of the other Korean equipment being procured) by Poland is at least as much about costs, availability and local industry development as absolute capability. If the latter had been the critical matter more new F-16s, more new F-35s or other options such as Rafales or Typhoon would provide better long term capability than the FA-50. The same cost, availability and local industry development factors could also come into play re: a potential future KF-21 procurement.

However it is hard to shake the suspicion that at least some of the reason a future KF-21 procurement is being touted is as a rationalisation/ defence of the FA-50 procurement which from a pure capability perspective definitely looks a bit odd (only real justifications would be much more rapid availability/ delivery/ in service than all the more capable alternatives, and/or an inability to afford those more capable alternatives).

 

[Cjc]

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

Can't say that I'm surprised, would make a lot of sense considering the the f-50 order and the work being done with the K-2PL

Will not happen anytime soon. Their fighter jet procurement plan (originally called for around 100 fighter jets in the late 90s) is now complete with the purchase of the FA-50PL. Should they procure any Boramaes, it would be to replace their F-16s, but those were introduced between 2006 and 2009 and the Polish defence planning outlined a planned upgrade for these Falcons.

Though, it is safe to assume that their upgraded Falcons will get phased out around the time (or a bit later than) the point when Korean Falcons will start to get phased out, which means there's a room for cooperation for a future joint Falcon replacement fighter program.

Consdering the state of the world right now i wouldn't be supised if poland dose join in (after all that 100 fighter then was dropped in 2000 for a different plan anyway) russia looks like its starting to unfuck its airforce and if thats the case poland is probably going to be looking for a kf-21 block 2 5th gen fighter to go along with there f-35 order ( i doubt the polish air force would consider upgraded f-16s good enough in that case)

By that same reasoning Poland shouldn’t have bought the FA-50; by that logic how are they going to survive/ prove useful long term against the current yet alone future Russian airforce and air defences?

A KF-21 buy in the future is possible but at least equally likely would be more F-35s or interest in the joint projects being under taken by France/Germany/Spain and by Japan/UK/Italy respectively. And if it is ultimately survivability and capability that is really driving Polish requirements the F-16 force could/ should out live the newer FA-50s.

And this isn’t meant as an attack on the FA-50; it’s procurement (as with a lot of the other Korean equipment being procured) by Poland is at least as much about costs, availability and local industry development as absolute capability. If the latter had been the critical matter more new F-16s, more new F-35s or other options such as Rafales or Typhoon would provide better long term capability than the FA-50. The same cost, availability and local industry development factors could also come into play re: a potential future KF-21 procurement.

However it is hard to shake the suspicion that at least some of the reason a future KF-21 procurement is being touted is as a rationalisation/ defence of the FA-50 procurement which from a pure capability perspective definitely looks a bit odd (only real justifications would be much more rapid availability/ delivery/ in service than all the more capable alternatives, and/or an inability to afford those more capable alternatives).

I mean isn't that exactly the case? Both the f-35 and f-16 lines are basically running as fast as they can right now, any new order would have to whate into 2027 or later before poland would get anything, while the f-50 can help bulk out the polish air force very soon, for not a lot of money, especially if poland can finally push there sovet era stuff to Ukraine. while korea has show repididly that it is willing to whate for its own delivery if it means landing orders (see the k-2 and k-9) which is very important singnal for poland i think.

 

[kaiserd]

More info on the potential Polish connection:

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

 

[Geo]

More info on the potential Polish connection:

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

Maybe Koreans will switch the colors on the other flag, which for some unknown reason remains on the KF-21 prototypes.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

More info on the potential Polish connection:

Poland’s PGZ Looks To Join South Korea’s KF-21 Program | Aviation Week Network

The Polish military prime is hoping to participate in the KAI KF-21 fighter program which could see development of a new variant.

aviationweek.com

I think that's the same article posted by Cjc. Did you post a wrong URL?

Maybe Koreans will switch the colors on the other flag, which for some unknown reason remains on the KF-21 prototypes.

Just need to flip it upside-down

 

[Hanz2k]

I expect:
1) Mig 29 to be transferred in Ukraine quickly in boxes,
2) FA50 to follow them after the war, with FA21 replacing them,
3) Around 2030 our 48 F16 will be 25 years old and need to be replaced.
This will make Polish Air Force 32 F35 and around 100 FA21.

 

[TomcatViP]

Please, do bear in mind that everything that is quality built in Poland does not end up in their armed forces. PZL might just have attracted the interests of KAI.

Also, an FA-50 is not a replacement for a Mig-29 that has a much greater dynamics as an interceptor. Poland is a large country that needs fast climbing and accelerating planes.

 

[stealthflanker]

Our test pilot will start flying the KF-21 next year.

Tho news is in Indonesian.

Penuh Optimis, Pilot Uji TNI AU Akan Terbangkan Pesawat Tempur KF-21 Boramae Tahun Depan - Mylesat

MYLESAT.COM – Korea Selatan dan Indonesia telah menapaki kemajuan berarti dalam proyek pengembangan pesawat tempur generasi 4,5 KF-21 Boramae. Ibarat mobil, harus melalui medan penuh rintangan sejak ambisi ini diumumkan pertama kali oleh Presiden Korea Selatan Kim Dae-jung dalam upacara...

mylesat.com

 

[FighterJock]

Our test pilot will start flying the KF-21 next year.

Tho news is in Indonesian.

Penuh Optimis, Pilot Uji TNI AU Akan Terbangkan Pesawat Tempur KF-21 Boramae Tahun Depan - Mylesat

MYLESAT.COM – Korea Selatan dan Indonesia telah menapaki kemajuan berarti dalam proyek pengembangan pesawat tempur generasi 4,5 KF-21 Boramae. Ibarat mobil, harus melalui medan penuh rintangan sejak ambisi ini diumumkan pertama kali oleh Presiden Korea Selatan Kim Dae-jung dalam upacara...

mylesat.com

When are they expecting the first flight to be? First or Second Quarter?

 

[Umigami]

View: https://youtu.be/l4f9j93HJBk

3rd prototype flied

 

[Umigami]

View: https://youtu.be/8HU-YE2xieo

 

[helmutkohl]

some nice high res pics
im liking the color scheme on this one over the other two.
isnt this the version meant for Indonesia?
cant wait to see the two seater fly

Source Bemil

 

[Deino]

And in the air!

 

[AI098]

KF21 has a total of 6 prototypes, the remaining 4, 5 and 6 prototypes, which can also complete testing this year

 

[sferrin]

 

[Archibald]

KF21 has a total of 6 prototypes, the remaining 4, 5 and 6 prototypes, which can also complete testing this year

I just can't get enough of them. This is the Superbug + F-35 done right... can't help thinking this is the stealth bird the USN should have created after NATF kick the bucket (CALF or JAST, whatever the accronym). But I digress.

 

[FighterJock]

I just can't get enough of them. This is the Superbug + F-35 done right... can't help thinking this is the stealth bird the USN should have created after NATF kick the bucket (CALF or JAST, whatever the accronym). But I digress.

Same here Archibald I too cannot get enough of them either, further to your question relating to the CALF and JAST the CALF was the Air Force project the Common Affordable Lightweight Fighter which was amalgamated into the JAST the Joint Advanced Strike Technology program which was then changed into the Joint Strike Fighter and the rest as they say is history.

 

[red admiral]

I just can't get enough of them. This is the Superbug + F-35 done right... can't help thinking this is the stealth bird the USN should have created after NATF kick the bucket (CALF or JAST, whatever the accronym). But I digress.

Apart from if you want to do things like meet key USN requirements like approach speed, or internal carriage of air to surface weapons like JSOW.

Which force a larger aircraft so you'd have to use 3 x F414s

 

[njiiaf]

USN’s ideal stealth bird would ironically look more like the J-35 than anything else, possibly even a little larger. But that’s a topic for a different thread.

 

[sferrin]

I just can't get enough of them. This is the Superbug + F-35 done right... can't help thinking this is the stealth bird the USN should have created after NATF kick the bucket (CALF or JAST, whatever the accronym). But I digress.

Apart from if you want to do things like meet key USN requirements like approach speed, or internal carriage of air to surface weapons like JSOW.

Which force a larger aircraft so you'd have to use 3 x F414s

Just use two F414 EPEs to get you to 53k.

 

[Hafidz Rahman]

Hi...

KAI want conducts another test flight to achieve supersonic speed:

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20230105008500325

 

[AnonSB]

The bird has gone supersonic!

[속보]국산 KF-21 전투기 첫 초음속 비행 성공

국산 초음속전투기 KF-21(보라매) 시제기가 17일 음속을 돌파한 초음속 비행에 처음 성공했다. 지난해 7월 첫 비행에 성공한 지 6개월 만이다. 소리의 전파 속도를 나타내는 마하 1은 시속 1천224㎞에 해당하며

n.news.naver.com

 

[Maro.Kyo]

KF-21 while in supersonic test flight


HUD indicating Mach 1.05

 

[helmutkohl]

lets hope the pilot doesn't take his test plane to Mach 10

in any case, which prototype is this? I can't tell from the fin as the resolution is low

 

[Maro.Kyo]

View: https://youtu.be/QyO2vGduk-g

On the right is a data monitor in MCR

 

[Maro.Kyo]

lets hope the pilot doesn't take his test plane to Mach 10

in any case, which prototype is this? I can't tell from the fin as the resolution is low

It's the first prototype. KF-21 prototypes could be id-ed by their color, most easily by looking at the tail painting.

 

[Umigami]

lets hope the pilot doesn't take his test plane to Mach 10

in any case, which prototype is this? I can't tell from the fin as the resolution is low

001

 

[datafuser]

This 2001 PhD paper by-then USAF Major Denhard noted that Mach 1.1 "strikes a good balance between increased missile range and adequate maneuverability".

https://scholar.afit.edu/etd/4545/

​

 

[Umigami]

View: https://youtu.be/dUdpwFjA4hs

 

[TomcatViP]

Notice also in those late video the excellent over the shoulder view of the pilot, seated height in a roomy cockpit.
A very descent aircraft that looks pleasant to fly.

 

[helmutkohl]

indeed, with the KFX and now TFX, these are some very exciting times for aviation, as we now have "western" systems that can be an alternative to products from Europe or the US.

They're not the most exciting looking (as they look like something Lockheed would make), but I am enthusiastic about the projects as a whole.

 

[Ainen]

They're not the most exciting looking (as they look like something Lockheed would make), but I am enthusiastic about the projects as a whole.

TFX is more towards unique side though.

 

[Bounce]

They're not the most exciting looking (as they look like something Lockheed would make), but I am enthusiastic about the projects as a whole.

TFX is more towards unique side though.

Yea the F-35 style hinged stabs with verts on top of the engines is interesting.

On topic of the KF-X does anyone know the dimensions of engine nozzles at their widest point?

 

[Deino]

lets hope the pilot doesn't take his test plane to Mach 10

in any case, which prototype is this? I can't tell from the fin as the resolution is low

001

Yepp

 

[windcalm]

Is the supersonic flight technically difficult? Or just symbolic event?

 

[TomcatViP]

Difficult:
- high altitude requires that all onboard safety system are functional
- sensors must be functional in their out of usual envelope
- engines are revved to a higher setup, increasing thermal stress, vibration...
- aerodynamics forces can threaten rapidly airframe integrity if something goes badly.

Obviously, some prototypes did go pass Mach1 as early as KFX did, or even during their first fight, but still, this is a challenge that needs attention.

 

[windcalm]

Difficult:
- high altitude requires that all onboard safety system are functional
- sensors must be functional in their out of usual envelope
- engines are revved to a higher setup, increasing thermal stress, vibration...
- aerodynamics forces can threaten rapidly airframe integrity if something goes badly.

Obviously, some prototypes did go pass Mach1 as early as KFX did, or even during their first fight, but still, this is a challenge that needs attention.

Aerodynamic load is much higher at low altitudes and transonic speeds than 40k and M1.05.

 

[Hafidz Rahman]

lets hope the pilot doesn't take his test plane to Mach 10

in any case, which prototype is this? I can't tell from the fin as the resolution is low

001

First prototype?

I think they used the same third prototype (003) for the supersonic test.