Outsourcing a sovereign democratic government function to for hire mercenaries does strike me as an extremely bad idea. When you get commercial entities involved in performing government functions, you will *ALWAYS* end up paying more in the end, because of profit motives.
There is actually a long history of the use of "mercenaries" going back many centuries. While many like to characterise all such mercenaries as borderline criminal, soldiers of fortune types but that is not the same as we are talking about when I suggest the likes of Drake International (or similar) offering a interceptor solution. In fact, one could argue that likes of the Swiss Guard are technically mercenaries. Same goes for the hundreds of thousands (if not more) of contractors offering all sort of logistics and other support, often in the field.

In the case of the air domain, we have the likes of Omega Air offering aerial refuelling services as well as numerous organisations offering training up to and including aggressor services. Others offer surveillance services.

So before making comments about "Outsourcing a sovereign democratic government function to for hire mercenaries" please remember that a lot already happens and indeed has been the case for many years.

In the case of the interceptor role here, I see this as likely being more akin to an air policing style role. After all, it's not like Ireland is facing a frontline combat threat of bombers or the likes crossing their borders. More than likely the real threat here is likely to be wayward airliners or other commercial aircraft, possible smugglers, or the like.

As to the cost effectiveness question, yes private contractors are looking for a profit. there is nothing wrong with that. ?However the advantage they offer, and where it often does become attractive for governments is that by procuring a service the government doesn't need to pay for acquisition, upgrade and maintenance costs not to mention the broader military organisation. Yes, often similar are rolled up into the contractor price but the contractors have the ability to amortise that across multiple customers thus reducing the price for individual ones.
 
You could ask the very same question for Switzerland and might perhaps even come up with some of the same answers.
Ah but Switzerland has long adopted a policy of Armed Neutrality (think the Porcupine approach - you may be able to hurt me but you will be hurt badly in response). For a long time, until recently, Sweden did much the same. Others such as Ireland, as is the subject of this discussion, have not taken that approach and have gotten by perfectly well. In fact, even in WWII you didn't see the Luftwaffe or broader German forces deliberately targeting Ireland even though doing such might have aided their cause in the early years.
 
Nevermind the questionable legality of mercenaries flying combat missions.

It's for Irish Sovereignty, FFS, some Irishmen can do the job! [/rant]
Said contractors could be 'deputised' to act on the Government's behalf. And please remember that what I am suggesting here isn't a case of the contractor being off the leash. The government would still remain in the loop. They just don't have to be the one wproviding the aircraft or the pilot - be that wont he cockpit or in a control centre if talking about a uninhabited platform (which should also be considered).
 
I am confident that Ireland will decide what is best for its own interests, irrespective of the opinions (including my own) voiced here or on other forums.
 
What is the threat?
Commercial airliner full of hostages, pilots determined to fly it into something expensive/important? Some Tu-160s taking the back door into the UK or maybe deciding to do several billion dollars of "rapid urban renewal" to Belfast or wherever?



Going back to the topic of the thread, the reality is Ireland does NOT need 'interceptors'.
MPA. and Coast Guard ASR. would be the only justifiable roles for an air arm otherwise its just posturing with the bigger boys and draining already thin resources.
Air Policing. You know, fly up to the radar contact that isn't squawking the right transponder codes (or is squawking the wrong ones), get their attention, escort to land if needed. Pray you don't have to shoot them down. Shoot them down if required. Yes, this requires a plane armed with AAMs, because otherwise you're playing USAF on 9/11, where the plan of all the fighters that scrambled was to aim for the tail or wing root and pray they'd stay stable enough after the impact to eject.

Same basic needs that EVERY nation on Earth has for a minimal air force. Which a dozen LIFTs like FA-50s would accomplish. And you can't go too much less than that, as most fighter type aircraft have about a 60-75% availability rate but the statistics get distorted at extremely small population sizes. A dozen fighters will just about guarantee you have a couple birds available to go escort someone, barring a fleet-wide grounding. Less than a dozen birds and you may have situations where each plane is unable to fly for different reasons.
 
Hmm, this all seems to be a continuation of ... 'Commission floats idea that Ireland purchase 12 to 24 fighter jets' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ireland-purchase-12-to-24-fighter-jets.38861/
Except that I consider getting an Air Policing squadron to be part of LOA2, not LOA3.
LOA 2 enhanced capability: Building on current capability to address specific priority gaps in our ability to deal with an assault on Irish sovereignty

While Ireland should be aiming towards LOA3, the funding increase for a dozen aircraft is easier to sell as part of LOA2.

LOA 3 conventional capability: Developing full spectrum defence capabilities to protect Ireland and its people to an extent comparable to similar sized countries in Europe.
Emphasis mine, this to me implies funding the IDF to roughly 2% of GDP.
 
or maybe deciding to do several billion dollars of "rapid urban renewal" to Belfast or wherever?

Is that possible?

In all seriousness though....there are so many other pressing priorities on Irish Defence monies, even if they got a massive increase, that purchasing a small number of fighter aircraft would be so far down the list as to almost not be visible...
 
Is that possible?
Doing several billion dollars of urban renewal to (insert city you don't like)? Sure, it's possible. I'm sure some yahoo will take offense at the Irish for drinking and try to destroy all the breweries and distilleries.


In all seriousness though....there are so many other pressing priorities on Irish Defence monies, even if they got a massive increase, that purchasing a small number of fighter aircraft would be so far down the list as to almost not be visible...
Can you say you're a sovereign nation if you cannot keep someone from trespassing?
 
A bit of a moot point really, for either good or bad, the EU. generally has an agreed open border network. 'tresspassing' in recent years is mostly illegal immigration and the responsibility of border control
 
A bit of a moot point really, for either good or bad, the EU. generally has an agreed open border network. 'tresspassing' in recent years is mostly illegal immigration and the responsibility of border control
With the way things are going these days, I would not be surprised at all to learn about some TU-95 or other overflights of Ireland in the very near future. That's *EXACTLY* what interceptors are for.
 
With the way things are going these days, I would not be surprised at all to learn about some TU-95 or other overflights of Ireland in the very near future. That's *EXACTLY* what interceptors are for.

What would that gain the Russian's though? No intelligence to be collected, just another country to add as an opponent. The Russian's have played their diplomatic hand spectacularly badly recently but even they have limits on stupidity. Don't get me wrong the UK would be very happy if Ireland had primary radar (discretely linked into their own air picture) and 12 or so Gripen....but the real threat to Ireland is Russia messing with undersea infrastructure...
 
The RI has simply done to the UK and Europe what Europe generally, has done to the USA. Namely, If you are willing to do the job, why should I?

Things are better than in the past but not yet good enough and we need to improve but, what will RI citizens do when they find out how much it all costs?

ROTFLMAO.
 
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