Horten Jet Aircraft Projects

[Justo Miranda]

My opinion

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sources post-1

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sources post-2

 

[blackkite]

Excellent brilliant Justo!

 

[Justo Miranda]

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sources post-3

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sources post-4 "Volksjäger"
Reimar Horten dixit

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Reimar Horten is the source for all Ho X information I believe.


Horten weren't invited to bid. Apparently they got wind of the requirements and drew something which could fulfil them. Their design wasn't asked for or submitted.


Now, whether the drawings provided are originals or Horten's own redrawings, etc. Don't know.

 

[Vladimir]

Thank you, Justo! Thank you guys, really great staff! But did any one have scanned page 17 and page p19 from the Ingolf Meyer's Luftwaffe Advanced Aircraft Projects to 1945 Volume 2: Fighters & Ground-Attack Aircraft Lippisch to Zeppelin? . I'm looking illustaration, drowings and other info about this two concepts to create paper models

 

[Justo Miranda]

Original drawing here

 

[Justo Miranda]

 

[Vladimir]

Thans to all for posts! But, Guys, did any one have scanned pages with Horten's projects from Ingolf Meyer's Luftwaffe Advanced Aircraft Projects to 1945 Volume 2: Fighters & Ground-Attack Aircraft Lippisch to Zeppelin? According to newsdeskdan its pages 17-19...
Thanks

 

[Vladimir]

Thans to all for posts! But, Guys, did any one have scanned pages with Horten's projects from Ingolf Meyer's Luftwaffe Advanced Aircraft Projects to 1945 Volume 2: Fighters & Ground-Attack Aircraft Lippisch to Zeppelin? According to newsdeskdan its pages 17-19...
Thanks

Vladimir, aren't you even a little bit curious about what's on page 18?

newsdeskdan, i dont know whats is the book, if there is nothing on page 18-Ok, then i need only page 17 and 19 ;D

 

[FighterJock]

Hi all, just stumbled upon this video about the Horten 229 on Youtube, I don't know how many of you have seen it, but I thought I would post it anyway as it deals with the Stealth qualities of the aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqgfjXaJxV8

 

[Justo Miranda]

My opinion

 

[sienar]

Worth a read about the actual properties of the preserved horton

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/horten-ho-229-v3/about/is-it-stealth.cfm

 

[sienar]

I once found a nice little collection of interrogations of various german engineers and scientists, and one of the interrogations was of the horten brothers.

In this interview they mentioned that they used Kaurit-whk resin in the construction of the 229, as well as another Kaurit family resing in certain areas (I think this other one was mixed with sawdust for use as a sort of filler, but not 100% sure)

The Smithsonian link I posted above did some chemical analysis of the 229 and found the layers of glue to be very consistent with the composition of Kaurit-whk. The black specs that some believe to be evidence of charcoal is apparently little more then discoloration due to age.

I wish I could find this set of interrogations again, but I think its a very telling nugget of information.

 

[Vladimir]

My opinion

It seems jet Justo completely right about the Horten X entwurth I! Here is what i faund from the old "Flight"

 

[Justo Miranda]

 

[red admiral]

They were not working on materials that had anything to do with radar either. I would ask you to show me a single WW2 document that mentions the effect of aircraft shapes or materials with regard to radar but I know that such a thing does not exist.

I did see a UK technical report from 1941 or 42 that outlined this in theory, how a RAM would work, what materials might be suitable etc. It was in the back of an old textbook but could probably be found in TNA.

 

[Vladimir]

colorful horten x, looks like made from wood, note the engine on bottom,not on top and vertical stabilizator

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

.

 

[Vladimir]

colorful horten x, looks like made from wood, note the engine on bottom,not on top and vertical stabilizator

Colourful and entirely fictional.

Hi, not fictional, but rather reconstruction from texstual report

 

[Jemiba]

Hi, not fictional, but rather reconstruction from texstual report

Well, we could speak of a drawing with source garde 1 (I would highly recommend this
thread about "source grading": http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2849.0.html )
So, it's not actually fictional, that means, it's not just the invention of a wanton imagination, but the
drawing probably has not much to do with the real thing.
You can have a look at the results of similar reports here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.0.html
There are some cases, were the artists impressions were really near to the types, they were
portraying. And there were others actually without a real equivalent.

 

[Vladimir]

For example, a report in the British RAE № FA 259/1 of October 1945 stated:

"In view Horten X is similar to projects of high-speed and supersonic aircraft Lippisch, especially P13. Horten explains that he first learned about the work Lippisch only in London. The main difference of the project is that the Horten brothers special vertical surfaces was considered useless, while Lippisch preferred scheme with a very large keel. "

Perhaps that last sentence did not refer directly to the Horten X, especially in view of the overall philosophy of the project. In published in 1982 the book "Flying Wings, history of aircraft Horten 1933 - 1960" Reimar substituted methyl "With a length of 10 m, and the aircraft semispan only 3.6 m resistance rudder was quite insignificant. Therefore Horten But X (XIIIb) from the beginning was equipped with vertical fins, although the resistance of the rudder at transonic speeds was the cause of the shock wave on the upper surface of the wing. "

In the literature appeared distorted images of H X or N Xlllb, which have nothing to do with the statements Reimar Horten in the already mentioned book "Flying Wings ..." Based on this source, and with the help of the already mentioned British posts in which there is a pattern, you should try reconstruct the plane.

From the book Секретные проекты истребителей Люфтваффе (Вальтер Шик, Ингольф Мейер)

Thanks!

 

[Vladimir]

Hi to all,

newsdeskdan, i respect Your opinion...But i not agree with You. My version-this not fictional, but reconstruction, reconstruction attempt by Ingolf Meyer. Thank You for report info!

 

[Jemiba]

... reconstruction, reconstruction attempt by Ingolf Meyer. ...

No difference to what was said before, I think: A reconstruction which isn't based on
drawings or at least isometric pictures (photos or artist impressions), isn't it ?

 

[Vladimir]

... reconstruction, reconstruction attempt by Ingolf Meyer. ...

No difference to what was said before, I think: A reconstruction which isn't based on
drawings or at least isometric pictures (photos or artist impressions), isn't it ?

Hi, Jemiba
i think that reconstruction it is recovering by the surviving remains, descriptions.

 

[Jemiba]

As it was just a project, there weren't remains, but as you said by yourself,
it is based on descriptions (without any mention how detailed they were !).
Just have a try, let somebody describe an aircraft and then try to make a
drawing of it. I'm pretty sure, that the result will show differences to the
original. And that's just, what we tried to say.

 

[Vladimir]

Hi, another Horten X 3-view

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hi, another Horten X 3-view

The same as the image posted by Justo in Reply 127 but with the tyres and canopy coloured in. Another popular Horton X design from the 1990s for which there is (seemingly) no historical evidence whatsoever.

 

[Vladimir]

Hi, Horten X B, picture cuted from video on youtube about Horten brosers. Sorry have only this low quality picture...

(taken from David Myhra "The Hortens and Their All-Wing Aircraft")

 

[Vladimir]

Horten's aircraft family

 

[Vladimir]

Hi, newsdeskdan i take it from here: http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/5566c30e924173a7640f1505/german-interest-in-flying-wings-and-tailless-aircraft

P.S. Will be apprishiate if You help with that: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26299.0.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Original source article is by Mitch Williamson http://www.germanaircraftwwii.org/2015/04/german-interest-in-flying-wings-and.html

 

[FighterJock]

Original source article is by Mitch Williamson http://www.germanaircraftwwii.org/2015/04/german-interest-in-flying-wings-and.html

Went to the home page and bookmarked it, a highly interesting website.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBnBSJ9bz3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxx9iZMpook&list=PL6t-gcfz4-qZgY3JIjT10gvuaVPMie7su

 

[Vladimir]

plastic model of Horten X B Entwurf from here: http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/HortenHoXEntwurf2-AEscala.htm

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Horten Ho-Ⅸ V3(Go-229).

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDZh2MbzKFc