German WW1 Fighters and Recce Aircraft Prototypes and Projects

[hesham]

Hi,


the Hansa-Brandenburg GW/3 was three engined biplane of 1916,may be torpedo aircraft,
and powered by three Mercedes D III engines.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


is there any picture survivor to Hansa-Brandenburg W.37,there was three prototypes,but
never completed.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

The Hansa-Brandenburg GW was a twin engined torpedo aircraft with two Mercedes-Daimler D IIIa. It had a single rudder.
I have this photograph of the GW/3 Marine Nr. 646 with triple rudder (source: Pawlas, Deutsche Flugzeuge 1914-1918, p. 142). At least the prototype of the GW had triple rudders. I suppose GW/3 indicates the triple rudder?
Marine Nr. of the GW: 528, 620-624, 646-650, 700-704,1080-1084.
The was also the GDW, a bigger version of the GW, with 2 x Benz Bz IV, 200 hp. A single prototype, Marine Nr. 746.

And sorry, but I don't have a picture of the W 37.

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the KW company had two "B" aircraft,one was appeared in 1915 with Mercedes D I
engine,and the second was appeared in 1916 with Benz Bz III engine.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

There was no company called KW. KW stand for Kaiserliche Werft (Imperial Shipyard), and the Kaiserliche Werften Danzig-Putzig, Kiel and Wilhelmshafen built some naval aircraft under license and some of own design.
The two mentioned "B" type naval recce aircraft/trainers should have been the following KW Wilhelmshafen types:
1. an unnamed biplane with Mercedes/Daimler D I: three built or copied (where?) - a rather obscure type
2. W 10, a float biplane, Marine Nrs 461 and 462

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,


and yes,it is KW Wilhelmshafen,which also built CHFT,No.945 and No.947.

 

[Jemiba]

The N° 945 actually was an own design by the Kaiserliche Werft Wilhelmshafen, inspired
by the Hansa Brandenburg W12, shown in Jack Herris "German Seaplane Fighters of WW I"
But "CHFT" to my opinion wasn't a type, but a category of combat aircraft, the abbreviation
standing for an aircraft fitted with an r/t set and a flexible, but no fixed gun.

 

[richard]

A comprehensive list of the K.W. seaplanes can be found , among other sources , here : Kiel Seeflugzeug (Sch
Total : 8 different types built ( the #1650 was never finished ) .


I don't have any pic for the #401/403 ; the #404/405 and the #467/470.


The #463/466 and #945 are here and in the previous Jemiba's reply .


at last , illustrations for #461/462 ; #947 ; #1105/1106 and the projected #1650 .

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dears Jemiba nd Richard,


for the Project 1650,it's new for me.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the DFW C Type was a recce biplane,powered by one Benz Bz III engine,not related
to C series as I guess.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

Dear Hesham, I suppose the DFW C Type mentionned is the one found on p. 318 of Gray & Thetford, German Aircraft of the First World War.

In 1916 Hermann Dorner, who was by then constructor at DFW, built a prototype single bay C Type with I struts, that was not accepted. Afterwards he built the more conventional C IV.

This airplane could be a candidate for the "missing" C III designation, even if it is generally accepted that the DFW prototype two seater pusher biplane was designated C III (eg. Lange, Typenhandbuch, p. 52: "… ist sicherlich identisch mit dem dreistieligen Gitterschwanz-Doppeldecker …").

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

It was a model from 1914-1915 for tests with cantilever wings. The article in Flugsport contains a number of photographs of test on real size wings.
Sp, not a real project...

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a LVG D.9 (C.III) drawing,only one aircraft was built as I know.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205358120

 

[Tuizentfloot]

Indeed, one built with Daimler (Mercedes) D III

 

[hesham]

Indeed, one built with Daimler (Mercedes) D III

That's right my dear Tuizentfloot.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the DFW company used a strange many series;T,F,MD,MRD & KD,and this Scout
biplane didn't get a designation ?.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft28844.htm

 

[Maveric]

Mmhh, this could be the D.F.W. B-Typ, Biplane with I-Stiel, Prototyp from 1914

 

[hesham]

Mmhh, this could be the D.F.W. B-Typ, Biplane with I-Stiel, Prototyp from 1914

I think it was anther one.

 

[richard]

DFW "Doppeldecker 1914" for "Der Luftverkehr" 1914
It had a belly (!) Windhoff radiator .
It certainly had an intern DFW designation , but I don't know it ...

 

[Tuizentfloot]

I can’t positively identify this biplane.

Apparently it has something to do with the Militär-Doppeldecker MD 14 (B I), even if it is a single-bay biplane and the MD 14 was a three-bay. Both have parallel struts.

In 1914 there was a single-bay biplane Renndoppeldecker variant of the MD 14 with aerodynamic modifications and a large I-strut (apparently an aerodynamic cover around the parallel struts). On this racer Max Schüler became the winner of the Dreiecksflug Berlin-Leipzig-Dresden. It had the typical MD 14 upper wing. Could the biplane in the photograph be the same, but without the modifications???

Another DFW single-bay biplane racer had the swept-back wing of the earlier Mars Pfeildoppeldecker, and was certainly not the plane on the photograph.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

and the Renndoppeldecker variant of the MD 14 :

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Richard and Tuizentfloot,

and I heard that,the DFW D.I had three versions.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

At least three...

With different tail surfaces.

 

[Maveric]

Sorry that I say such, but I believe I´m right...

 

[hesham]

Many great thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.

 

[hesham]

My dear Tuizentfloot,

you did a great work in explanation Hans Grade aircraft before WWI,can you tell us
what was his activities during WWI;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22491.45.html

 

[Tuizentfloot]

Very short answer, my dear Hesham... During WWI the Grade Fliegerwerke did only aircraft repairs. And in 1917 Aviatik took over the company. The end...

 

[hesham]

Many thanks my dear Tuizentfloot,

and can I ask you about Hannover C.IV & C.V,and if there was C.I,C.II and C.III or not ?.

 

[Maveric]

Horrido hesham,
Hannover had no C.II to C.V, only the C.I was a license build Aviatik C.I. After the C.I Hannover had CL.II up to CL.V.
Maveric

 

[hesham]

My dear Maveric,

who said that,I know CL series very well,but the Hannover C.IV was a recce biplane,powered
by one Maybach Mb IV engine and C.V was also a recce biplane,powered by one BMW IIIa
engine,the C.Va was a recce aircraft version,but no more details about it are known,they
all appeared in 1818.

 

[Maveric]

Please tell me your source. In my sources there are NO Honnover C.-aircrafts without C.I !!!

 

[hesham]

Please tell me your source. In my sources there are NO Honnover C.-aircrafts without C.I !!!

I remember only C.IV,it was from the book; German Aircraft of the WW1;

 

[Tuizentfloot]

I really don’t know. Most sources agree with Maveric. But some use the C IV and C V designations (even in German sources).

Both the CL IV and the CL V are 1918 types, but before late 1917 there was no differentiation between C and CL types, and in everyday language a confusion certainly subsisted. Is this the reason?

 

[hesham]

My dear Tuizentfloot,

maybe just a development of them ?.

 

[Maveric]

Hi Tuizentfloot,
please take a look in Lange´s Typenhandbuch..., there is the same picture on page 66 like heshams scan, this is a HAWA CL.IV and also the technical data are the same!!!!
I´m shure HAWA built NO C.-Series.
Maveric

 

[Tuizentfloot]

Indeed! And Lange's technical data for the CL IV are the same as in Gray & Thetford for their so-called C IV...

Concerning the CL V, the photograph of the CL V in Gray & Thetford and in Lange is the same as in Pawlas, Deutsche Flugzeuge 1914-1918, where this plane is called C V. Pawlas is the sole German source that mentions a C IV and C V instead of CL IV and CL V.

You don't need to convince me, Maveric, I agree with you. There are no C IV or C V in the Hannover series and all this history is the result of a confusion.

And Lange is clear: the CL IV and the CL V had their origins in the CL III. So why call them C-types?

 

[hesham]

My dear Tuizentfloot,

the only evidence I have,that there was an aircraft called C.Va,and as you know the
Honnover CL V never developed into this designation.