Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault Aviation, put into perspective on Monday the announcement Friday of agreements at governmental and industrial levels for the launch of the next phase of development of the future combat aircraft SCAF (future air combat system).

"There's a political pseudo-announcement that was made. I think the German clearances - which were difficult to get - came out and that resulted in leaks. It's not quite done yet," he said on RTL.

"Before the hour is not quite the hour," he added.

For the moment, no agreement has yet been signed between the industrial groups Dassault and Airbus, specified Eric Trappier, suggesting that it was not guaranteed that the signature would take place within the week.

Even if "it has progressed", the CEO of Dassault Aviation warned that "we are at the very beginning of the process" because it is only a question for the moment of agreeing on the realization of studies. "There are other steps behind that will have to come, fly a demonstrator and then launch a development program," he explained.

(...)

-for "within the week", I understand that it is because the French Prime Minister will be in Germany on November 25.

-for "German clearances", I understand that the Bundestag has given its approval for the expenditure (in Germany any expenditure over 25 million euros depends on the agreement of the The Bundestag Budget Committee). This French article of November 19 evoked the sums at stake:

(...)
Why an agreement now? Because there are budgetary appropriations to be spent and which are available. In August 2021, Berlin, Madrid and Paris had explained that they were going to finance phase 1B to the tune of 3.6 billion euros, or 1.2 billion each, it was then assured to the cabinet of the former Minister for Armies, Florence Parly. France has programmed 1.26 billion euros in payment appropriations between 2023 and 2025 (372.8 million in 2023, 471.17 million in 2024 and 416.51 million in 2025). Being very pragmatic by nature, the manufacturers, (...), did not want to see these available budgetary credits slipping away under their noses.
(...)
 

Looks like the SCAF will be going ahead after all with the French PM going to Germany. All they will need to deal with is what happens to who get what percent of the stakes in the building of the airframe.
 
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In the National Assembly, some went so far as to evoke a “plan B” in the event of failure of this cooperation with Germany [not to mention Spain]. Plan B that Éric Trappier regularly mentions…

But the Senate obviously intends to go much further. Indeed, within the framework of the examination of the finance bill [PLF] 2023, its finance committee adopted an amendment which, submitted by Dominique de Legge, proposes to finance studies "intended to establish the conditions of feasibility of a new generation fighter project financed by France outside of any cooperation".

For this, the text proposes an opening of 10 million euros in commitment authorizations and payment appropriations for the benefit of program 144 “Environment and prospective of Defense”. Which seems modest in view of the stakes... But as Senator Cédric Perrin explained, during the work of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, this amendment aims to remind the government that it must "give guarantees on the preservation of a certain number of strategic interests of France”. And to insist: “The needs of our armies must be taken into account – deterrence and navalization – as well as the protection of intellectual property. Export rules need to be clarified.”

More specifically, taking note of the delay already accumulated by the SCAF and the difficulties in reaching an agreement between the three countries involved in this programme, the amendment considers it necessary to explore the feasibility of a national "plan B" "in order to anticipate a possible impasse in the negotiations", but without calling into question the "plan A" in the immediate future. And all this while arguing that “every day of additional delay in the negotiations is a day lost for the preparation of the French armies for the air war of the future”.

In addition, with regard to negotiations with Germany and Spain, the amendment insists that France "must remain firm on certain points of essential national interest, such as the ability to provide equipment and systems of weapons corresponding to the degree of autonomy in action" that it wishes. Or even as the “maintenance over time of an industry independent of foreign regulations, in terms of export control in particular”.

By acting in this way, the Senate is responding to the Bundestag, which recently adopted a resolution to demand that the German government "better take into account the interests of industry" both in the SCAF and in the MGCS [future combat tank] project. ].

Frankly, I was very enthusiastic at the beginning of the program, but, for three years and the first divergences, I have the impression that it is always going straighter into the wall...

I don't know what will come out of it in the end, but I still doubt that it will be in the form of a program where France AND Germany will be involved...
 
It does seem almost inevitable that France will build a Rafale successor. In that sense the other countries have to decide whether the US or UK offer them better terms for co-operation or off the shelf purchase.
Unlike Britain France is prepared to invest in big long term programmes on its own if necessary.
Personally I hope Dassault does build its own design. From Mirage to Rafale his products have a certain flair. The alternative of more F35 clones is too dull to contemplate.
 
All these drama regarding SCAF really reminds me of everything wrong with the FS-X program and US-Japan relations back then. No, since the diplomatic relations are not as one sided, it actually makes things even worse. I've always thought that FS-X was a great template for "how to not manage an international development project" but the French and the Germans seems to have never heard anything about it.
 
Why does this not surprise me?

I knew from the start that the only way France would stick with this is if Germany and Spain basically said "OK, we'll buy whatever France decides to build, with whatever scraps of industrial participation they will gift us".

France NEVER is willing to compromise with anyone in order to have a multinational program. Its always "the French way or no way".
 
The frustrating thing is that the problems now holding up progress seemed to have been already resolved (and very sensibly at that) in the very beginning, when work shares were tentatively agreed. Including French overall leadership. So this entire conflict is undoing stuff that was ostensibly agreed upon a long time ago :(

No idea who is primarily to blame (based on the public information, I'm inclined to look at Airbus DS here - who knows how accurate that portrayal is though), but it's very damaging.
 
The saga of Jaguar and AFVG in the 60s comes to mind as another partnership full of lessons.
The great irony was that cancelling AFVG forced both France and Britain to have Jaguar as their main tactical strike aircraft in the late 70s. But UK were able to build Tornado with Germany and Italy and relegate the Jaguar to three UK based air support sqns.
So you could argue that France came off worse in that one. Though if Mirage G had replaced those Jaguars...
 
It's nothing more than a lobby of large industrial groups. The law of capital applies.

BUT: In the mid-1980s, Dassault convinced Mitterrand that France definitively withdraw from FEFA and go the Rafale development route. Does anyone today consider this a bad decision from a security, economic and political point of view?

AND: This is what it looks like today, when politics and business together understand the meaning of the phrase "national interest".
 

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I don't think the news article regarding Plan B is drastically bad news. So the Senate is going to bung 10 million Euros into the programme for a Plan B feasibility study? At this stage that's loose change. The sticking point seems to be to exporting to anyone who can afford the price tag and maintaining France's industry. On the first point the German politicians seem to be weakening (at least for now) on tight export controls and Airbus' workshare is never going to threaten Dassault's future as a builder of fighters.
And the news from last week was looking more positive that a political solution was near at hand. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of fantasy that Senator Cédric Perrin and the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee are somewhat lagging behind the latest developments given the inertia inherent in politics.

Even so I don't think that Trappier is done yet stirring the pot until the bottom falls out.
 
I don't think the news article regarding Plan B is drastically bad news. So the Senate is going to bung 10 million Euros into the programme for a Plan B feasibility study? At this stage that's loose change.

I think that 10m EUR will never get spent. Its an extra bit of leverage in negotiations that are tight at the present. The French state is backing Dassault politically and sending a timely reminder that they could go on their own, but I don't think they really want to. The sensible thing for the German and Spanish negotiators to do is ignore it as a transparent tactic and hold their line.
 
Targeting 2029 for the demonstrator’s first flight… 2 years behind Tempest.

And that’s assuming a smooth transition from Phase 1B (design) to Phase 2 (demonstrator) which remains to be negotiated and will offer the German Parliament another opportunity to throw a wrench in the process…
 
Airbus and Dassault-Aviation made it through their differences. SCAF is moving forward:


About time too. What will happen now with the agreements on production rights? 50:50 split on the SCAFs fuselage and wings?


in English

 
An horrendous piece on the subject to not read, sadly found in a main stream journal.

I don't know who write this, hidden behind their congregation name, but there is so much hate behind those few lines that it would certainly be a good thing to let those guys way away from any decision process.

Really, the Versailles treaty?!


In another piece, France is reportedly considering Saudis interest for the SCAF.

Well, if that is true, I have a great name for the manned component, very trendy.
Call it...

Blade.

:mad:
 
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Germany brings a big budget as it did with Tornado and Typhoon. But the political delays and sales limits imposed by German politicians make me wonder if Paris is looking at the looser Tempest set up with some envy.
Paris does have some friends around the world who might join in, like Brazil and South Africa or Egypt and Qatar.
 
Germany brings a big budget as it did with Tornado and Typhoon. But the political delays and sales limits imposed by German politicians make me wonder if Paris is looking at the looser Tempest set up with some envy.
Paris does have some friends around the world who might join in, like Brazil and South Africa or Egypt and Qatar.
When did either Brazil or South Africa last buy new-built fighter aircraft from France?

Except for the temporary use of used Mirage 2000’s by Brazil between 2006 and 2013 I think we are talking about Mirage III’s purchased more than 50 years ago.

Dassault/ France’s now very historic contacts in Apartheid South Africa or military junta Brazil probably not all that useful to them any more.
I am not really having a go at Dassault/ France in this context (though they may well deserve criticism on these grounds) - the point I’m making here is it’s just that the people involved in the Mirage III deals and operations are likely all long retired and/or dead.

South Africa and Brazil both Gripen operators and chose the Gripen instead of Mirage 2000’s and Rafale, respectively.
 
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Kaiserd Accurate account of the history. BAe certainly in South Africa played a part there. Probably also in Brasil.
I would not rule Dassault out in the future though.
 
It's now called FCAP. This way via several renaming iterations: FCAS -> FCAP -> FCRAP -> FSCRAP ;)


FCAS-NGF.jpg
 
LEVCON, LERX... Not something transcendentaly innovative. Let's hope there is a bit more for the money (and the wait).
 

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Yeah, the planform definitely resembles the tailless early Dassault config. As Tomcat correctly says though, I'm not sure that concept ever included LEVCONs (while conversely the contemporary Airbus' proposals certainly did).
 

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