Extraterrestrials: Hope or Threat

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Turning the problem.on its head. We are now approaching the time when our telescopes in space might reveal an earthlike planet showing signs of intelligent life in a planetary system which we could send s probe to reach in several hundred years.

The US and Chinese governments meet to consider doing just that. What would you suggest they do and why?
I can’t remember where I read this but they figured we should wait until we can reach at least .1c no point sending a probe that would more than likely be passed by something faster developed and built decades later.
 
Turning the problem.on its head. We are now approaching the time when our telescopes in space might reveal an earthlike planet showing signs of intelligent life in a planetary system which we could send s probe to reach in several hundred years.

The US and Chinese governments meet to consider doing just that. What would you suggest they do and why?
I can’t remember where I read this but they figured we should wait until we can reach at least .1c no point sending a probe that would more than likely be passed by something faster developed and built decades later.
Imagine the caravans of wagons that conquered the West being overtaken by a steam train and this in turn being overtaken by a Ford Trimotor and this in turn surpassed by the F8U Crusader of John Glenn and above, flying much higher in the sky an SR 71.
 
Religion serves to fill in the gaps in our knowledge. Lightning, thunder, comets, eclipses, diseases, earthquakes, death...

Those gaps are largely already filled with actual knowledge, yet you will find people who still apply religion to them. Diseases are, after all God's Judgement or something.

In my opinion an alien race with great knowledge should not be very religious, especially if they have achieved some form of immortality.
That viewpoint depends on the aliens being rational in a way that seems rational to *you.* I'm currently watching France descend into the third circle of Hell and it's pretty clear that a whole lot of people don't rationalize the way that *I* do. Why should I expect me-level logic out of aliens?

What do you expect from the French? Hat drops and riots start.

Get a copy of Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF5bPI92-5o


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVEuQg_Mglw


https://www.bethinking.org/atheism/the-john-lennox-richard-dawkins-debate

https://wisedisciple.org/podcast-episodes/debate-teacher-reacts-john-lennox-richard-dawkins
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Dawkins is an evangelical atheist; arguing with him about God has all the pleasure of arguing with a YEC about the age of the Earth and an equal chance of influencing his feelings about the subject.

I think it's quite clear, based on the number of scientists who are believers, that there is no contradiction between belief and science. After all, the "Big Bang" theory was first proposed by Msgr Georges Lemaître a practicing Catholic, indeed, even an ordained priest.

Back to ET!

We haven't found ET, yet, and may never do so if they exist in a few hundred light-years of Earth, let alone in a different galaxy.
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?
 

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Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Dawkins is an evangelical atheist; arguing with him about God has all the pleasure of arguing with a YEC about the age of the Earth and an equal chance of influencing his feelings about the subject.

I think it's quite clear, based on the number of scientists who are believers, that there is no contradiction between belief and science. After all, the "Big Bang" theory was first proposed by Msgr Georges Lemaître a practicing Catholic, indeed, even an ordained priest.

Back to ET!

We haven't found ET, yet, and may never do so if they exist in a few hundred light-years of Earth, let alone in a different galaxy.
There was a time when no one argued about the age of the earth because believers knew for sure that Bishop James Usher had already been calculated: the early morning of October 23, 4004 B.C. Non-believers were simply burned alive.
There was a time when it was thought that science was meaningless because Aristotle had already invented everything, in some kingdoms the paradigm lasted more than a thousand years.
 
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"In 1889, Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office. He is widely quoted as having stated that the patent office would soon shrink in size, and eventually close, because… “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” '
 
"In 1889, Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office. He is widely quoted as having stated that the patent office would soon shrink in size, and eventually close, because… “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” '
Einstein worked at the Swiss Patent Office from 1902 to 1909. :)
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
 
Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?
Would be funny if the plot twist turns out to be that science deciphers science and finds that science itself is a plot twist.
 
What bums a lot of folks out is that science is really good at telling you what *isn’t* possible. No FTL, no this, no that. Atheists don’t have a hell for those who murdered Hypatia, or an afterlife for Hitchens..so unfair. It ain’t for wimps.

In the past, fundies were Bible-only…go burn your D&D manuals. In the era of Coast-to-Coast, they adopted other paranormal things in. Thor was real…but he’s a Nephilim or something.

And then religion is a short-cut. As one comedian said:

As a kid, would you rather sit for hours and learn biology…or have your parents say god did it so you can go out and play?

And space operas are the worst about getting your hopes up.

It is easy to think FTL is just an engineering challenge like flying faster than the speed of sound.

The universe is really good about dashing one’s hopes and dreams. So we make crap up….to tell ourselves it’ll all be okay…

One thing to remember is that—-in the popular American imagination—-an atheist is not someone who doesn’t believe in god…that’s Uncle Bill who drinks and doesn’t go to church.

I’ve had several African-American women say I was too nice to be an atheist.

Now—admittedly—when I was growing up, what little Free-Thought literature I had in the South just had photos of Kurtz and Gardner scowling at the camera before Sagan and Shermer proved that…yes…you can smile!

-but I don’t think that is it.

The term “atheist” makes some people think of Hellfire Club plantation-owners…images of Lestat, powdered wigs and snobbery, I suppose.
 
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Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Leo Szilard, who jokingly suggested that Hungary was a front for aliens from Mars, used this term. In an answer to the question of why there is no evidence of intelligent life beyond Earth despite the high probability of it existing, Szilárd responded: "They are already here among us – they just call themselves Hungarians." This account is featured in György Marx's book The Voice of the Martians.
 

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Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...
 
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Maybe ET has such a high standard of living that only idiots would want to come here...
That would explain crop circles: Alien graffiti
I agree, if they aren’t interested in resources which can be easely obtained by a far more powerful civilzation, Earth would just be a touristic/research destiny
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
Nah, I look at the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. After WWII West Germany had shall we say the opportunity to learn from established democratic political systems around the world and combine the best features of different models in an optimized solution.
 
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Maybe ET has such a high standard of living that only idiots would want to come here...
That would explain crop circles: Alien graffiti
I agree, if they aren’t interested in resources which can be easely obtained by a far more powerful civilzation, Earth would just be a touristic/research destiny
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
Nah, I look at the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. After WWII West Germany had shall we say the opportunity to learn from established democratic political systems around the world and combine the best features of different models in an optimized solution.
I think you miss the part of history that also before WWII there was a democratic system in Germany. So I would more say it was some kind of learning from the Weimar Republic under the control of the Western victorious powers. Besides, I think the established and still active system is far away from being optimized compared to other democratic systems.
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
Nah, I look at the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. After WWII West Germany had shall we say the opportunity to learn from established democratic political systems around the world and combine the best features of different models in an optimized solution.
I think you miss the part of history that also before WWII there was a democratic system in Germany. So I would more say it was some kind of learning from the Weimar Republic under the control of the Western victorious powers. Besides, I think the established and still active system is far away from being optimized compared to other democratic systems.
Germany has not yet overcome its exclusion from the Roman Empire, its political thought functions with different frequencies from the rest of Europe.
 
Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
Nah, I look at the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. After WWII West Germany had shall we say the opportunity to learn from established democratic political systems around the world and combine the best features of different models in an optimized solution.
I think you miss the part of history that also before WWII there was a democratic system in Germany. So I would more say it was some kind of learning from the Weimar Republic under the control of the Western victorious powers. Besides, I think the established and still active system is far away from being optimized compared to other democratic systems.
I am not missing any part of history (believe you me, 20th century European history was drilled into my generation in a post war West German gymnasium with a righteous laser focus on the evils of the nazis), so there's really no need to try to lecture me on the Weimar Republic, and I deeply resent your obviously wholly uninformed and completely uneducated glib and slanderous assertion (you're american, I presume?). I'm awaiting with baited breath though which other current democratic systems you would consider superior to the German one though, and *precisely* why (cough *electoral college* cough).
 
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Richard Dawkins? Seriously? Science hasn't buried religion.
Not yet, but it has already debunked many myths that humanity in its ignorance attributed to “supernatural” causes: the fire god, the sun god, the moon goddess, rain, snow, hail, flat earth, lightning, thunder, eclipses, meteorites, comets, earthquakes, tidal waves, diseases (Yertsynia Pestis), unicorns (rhinos), mermaids (manatees), werewolves (porphyria), Kraken (Architeutis), dragons (dinosaurs fossils) ... Science advances methodically and is unstoppable... What will be the next myth deciphered and archived?

How about the other aliens living among us? They are always right, they will lead humanity to all truth. They never do wrong. They are perfect.

Any ideas?
Thank you, Ed! What a very nice thing to state - I am a green (it's actually pink these days, but never mind) card carrying resident alien and truly appreciate your confidence in our wisdom and capabilities, although you might be a tad overconfident in our collective faculties - there *are* European idiots, too, you know. But now let's start by completely updating your... antiquated over two centuries old two party political system...

I suggest you look at The House of Commons and The House of Lords.
Nah, I look at the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. After WWII West Germany had shall we say the opportunity to learn from established democratic political systems around the world and combine the best features of different models in an optimized solution.
I think you miss the part of history that also before WWII there was a democratic system in Germany. So I would more say it was some kind of learning from the Weimar Republic under the control of the Western victorious powers. Besides, I think the established and still active system is far away from being optimized compared to other democratic systems.
Germany has not yet overcome its exclusion from the Roman Empire, its political thought functions with different frequencies from the rest of Europe.
Would you perhaps care to exactly elaborate on your apparent German inferiority complex insinuation theory? I assume you have access to Wikipedia in the southern european parts where presumably you reside, so I hope it will not blow your mind irreparably to become aware that the socalled Holy Roman Empire was also known as the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation after 1512, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire. But if you will, please discuss which current Roman Empire you're referring to - is that perhaps the one where Spain is supplying several luxury car and appliance company brands around the globe and is the economic powerhouse of the European Union? Oh wait, I think I got that mixed up - my bad... But you sure produce nice B/W line drawings of other countries' airplanes, my kind sir...
 
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As a citizen of one of Germany's neighbouring countries, I consider the German Federal Republic to be one of those rare nations that have actually learned from history. German democracy is not perfect, but since WW2, it is stable, changes in government have been remarkably smooth and it is a good neighbour.
 
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Richard D I'm awaiting with baited breath though which other current democratic systems you would consider superior to the German one though, and *precisely* why (cough *electoral college* cough).

One point: an electoral college system is a *fantastic* approach to a government of a *large* nation composed of a number of independent-minded semi-sovereign states. A "United States of Europe" or a "United Federation of Planets" would do well to have something like this, and like the US's split Senate/House approach, where it's partially based on population ratios, and partially based on set political regions.

For itty-bitty countries like, say, Belgium, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But if you tried to turn the EU into a single nation... the smaller countries like Belgium would be simply steamrolled by the likes of Germany. Without *disproportionate* controls, German interests would dominate the new nation. And the smaller nations would quickly come to regret having been involved in that mess.

How to return this discussion to relevance? Hmmm. Assume an alien invasion of, say, the EU. Aliens move in in large numbers and start voting for things to be made *their* way. Soon enough, the lands of the EU would no longer resemble what they were that inspire the Zeta Reticulans to move there in the first place, but would become chaotic versions of Zeta Reticuli. The indigenous population would become like aliens in their own lands...

Nah, that's crazy. The EU would never allow such obvious insanity.
 
Richard D I'm awaiting with baited breath though which other current democratic systems you would consider superior to the German one though, and *precisely* why (cough *electoral college* cough).

One point: an electoral college system is a *fantastic* approach to a government of a *large* nation composed of a number of independent-minded semi-sovereign states. A "United States of Europe" or a "United Federation of Planets" would do well to have something like this, and like the US's split Senate/House approach, where it's partially based on population ratios, and partially based on set political regions.

For itty-bitty countries like, say, Belgium, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But if you tried to turn the EU into a single nation... the smaller countries like Belgium would be simply steamrolled by the likes of Germany. Without *disproportionate* controls, German interests would dominate the new nation. And the smaller nations would quickly come to regret having been involved in that mess.

How to return this discussion to relevance? Hmmm. Assume an alien invasion of, say, the EU. Aliens move in in large numbers and start voting for things to be made *their* way. Soon enough, the lands of the EU would no longer resemble what they were that inspire the Zeta Reticulans to move there in the first place, but would become chaotic versions of Zeta Reticuli. The indigenous population would become like aliens in their own lands...

Nah, that's crazy. The EU would never allow such obvious insanity.
Boy howdy, I fer sure don't know what you're partakin' of this here pre 7/4 evening, son, but postulatin' an alien invasion of the EU only rather than of this here planet Earth as a whole with complete popular acceptance seems... farfetched/desperate, but dagnabbit I'm glad that even you admitted at the end that that's crazy, my dear boy. But you do you, bro! Also, please point me to *any* credible source that fantasizes about turning the EU into a single nation - believe you me, Europe is closely watching the US, and we certainly recognize a more than two century long failure in actual unified nation building when we see one... I am a proud German/European citizen working as an expat in the US for the last quarter century, so I have seen first hand how both political systems work (or not). But please tell me, dear Scott, kiddo, when was the last time that you have actually set foot outside of the continent you live on, let alone the country you reside in, rather than just mindlessly absorbing lies fed to you by feaux news or other even more disreputable misinformation sources that ignorantly disparage places that you have never actually physically been to in the first place. Based on my personal first hand experience, I do indeed consider the German/European parliamentary political system *vastly* superior to the severely outdated US one, which to me is more akin to a banana republic, but at least here in California, elections reliably go the way I would vote on a local, state, and federal level anyway (even though, as a US tax payer, I'm still equally amused and embittered by the contradiction between my status and the catchy slogan "no taxation without representation!" - I would vastly prefer to pay no taxes in order to maintain my status as a non voter, but I've long since learned that looking for consistency in the US political system is utterly futile). So, while over the decades I've learned not to take any US catchphrases seriously, I'm just copacetic and happy to see things politically consistently go my way in SoCal without even having to enter an election booth, and I just enjoy the sunny Mediterranean lifestyle of being around palms (they're not actually trees, you know :D) and sandy pacific beaches :), and I'm also happy to not ever become subject to being roped into any socalled "jury system" as a juror of socalled peers (for example, since I'm a German citizen, if I ever were charged with anything at all, I should be entitled to a jury of twelve male German resident aliens as my peers, right?). But who knows, if California ever grew the balls and decided to try to break away from the "union" and become its own nation with the world's fifth largest economy instead of having to subsidize mouth breather southeastern hick do nothing states with our tax dollars, I might even consider to change my citizenship to Californian ;).
 
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Then again, you can only miss what you aim for. What was the point of this topic anyway?
 
I vote we start discussing Paulus de Boskabouter. This topic could do with some more stretching.
 
Then again, you can only miss what you aim for. What was the point of this topic anyway?
Right. Extraterrestrials. But I dare to speculate that for certain forum members from a certain (half) continent Europeans fit that bill?
 
I'm feeling particularly able to present the alien POV today. To anybody else than my neighbours, that is. Zork, is that you?
 
As a true green/pink card carrying resident alien, I'm actually more in the ALF camp. But I'm really looking forward to the new season of Resident Alien with Alan Tudyk - he really makes me feel almost american human :D.
 
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Paraphrasing something a celebrity said a while back (and celebrities are wise, as we know): Not everything is about your thing. That is, no matter how deeply you hold an opinion, it is still not a law of physics.

Using discussion about the possibilities of ETIs, about which we have no concrete evidence, to comment on parochial political concerns makes as much sense as a troop of chimpanzees arguing about how other beings, who for some unexplained reasons are just like chimpanzees, would want to take all of their bananas and - shame! - how certain chimpanzees in the troop would let them. Somehow this is supposed to have some rhetorical significance? Jabs at the EU or the Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things or whatever group or cause our resident Comic Book Guy thinks is important to him are about as illuminating.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrdqQZ8FFc


At the end of Voltaire's Micromegas, an earthly priest declares with absolute certainty that the entire cosmos, including the eponymous extraterrestrial, were created entirely for the benefit of humanity, which is consistent with his doctrine. Micromegas of course convulses with laughter. The appearance of such a being would of course have an effect on our society that would reveal something unexpected about us, but their own nature, which we cannot at present predict, will determine our interactions in the long term.

Anyway, if they appear, I don't think that they'll be after our bananas and eventually we'll figure that out. Probably not immediately. Using their potential existence to argue about bananas is just silly.
 
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On topic! Yay!
 
Pessimist or absurdist as I am, I'd recommend Lem's ironic novels of first contact, Solaris, His Master's Voice, and Fiasco. In the last, a supposedly enlightened humanity tries to establish contact with an alien species. They are so thoroughly absorbed by their internal issues that they cannot acknowledge the human expedition on its terms and the human expedition is so thoroughly absorbed by its mythology of aliens who will welcome contact that they cannot retreat. The consequences of this paradox are not good. Star Trek it ain't.
 
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Something I wonder about occasionally. Many so called experts state that any inteligent life 'out there' will look nothing like human beings, no butts of maybe's at all.

Why do people think that? These inteligent species will have to evolve to deal with similar physical realities and problems so why there is no chance of some commonality at least I fail to grasp.

NOT suggestin they will look axactly like us but some common traits would seem to make sense.

They are also likely to face similar social pressures so the chance of 'them there aliens' being amenable to peaceful interaction would seem to be reasonable at least.

I agree it also means Ghengis Kahn being reincarnated in deed and action is also possible.
 
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