Apparently Turkey and Qatar have created a joint squadron at Qatar that is composed of Qatari Eurofighters and Turkish F-16s.

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Source: View: https://x.com/MOD_Qatar/status/1828323594352390173
 
Just exactly what I was thinking kqcke for you. Let's see what happens to the Turkish order and of course how many they actually buy in the end if it does go through.
 
Apparently Turkey and Qatar have created a joint squadron in Qatar that is composed of Qatari Eurofighters and Turkish F-16s.

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Source: View: https://x.com/MOD_Qatar/status/1828323594352390173
Here's a video report from the Turkish MoD showing the visit, it seems they deployed 6 F-16s in Qatar.
Air Force Commander Air General Ziya Cemal Kadıoğlu visited Qatar following the permanent deployment of the newly established Air Component Command within the Qatar Turkish Combined Joint Force Command. General Kadıoğlu made the first flight with Qatar Air Force Commander Major General Jassim Mohammed Ahmad Al-Mannai.
View: https://x.com/tcsavunma/status/1828431739364036848
 
Turns out there's some truth to this news from 2022 after all (⊙⊙)

"A set up of 250 Qatari personnel with a number of Qatari airforce planes (12 Rafale and 8 Mirage 2000) was already put in place in Türkiye for ”training” purposes in 2022 for a period of 5 years."
Qatar will soon deploy some 250 military personnel and 36 warplanes to Turkey as part of a military cooperation agreement between Doha and its close ally. This operation aims to get Qatari fighter pilots to train in Turkey.
https://www.blogbeforeflight.net/2022/10/qatar-deploy-fighter-aircraft-turkey.html?m=1#:~:text=Qatar will soon deploy some,pilots to train in Turkey.
 
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Very interesting blog post by Billie Flynn on the Eurofighter. He has never been the greatest advocate for the aircraft but more interesting is the experience. I doubt the Eurofighter program was the first or the last to face these types of challenges and he has commented on challenges within the F-35 and F-16E test programs previously.

Fate, Luck and Choice – Truth versus Honesty – The Eurofighter Oscillation​

I have never worked for an organization that overtly lied to a customer, but I have been involved in programs where leaders certainly were not forthcoming about product issues or problems encountered in development.

In my world, there is a clear distinction between Truth and Honesty.

My first encounter with Truth versus Honesty was as a test pilot on Eurofighter Typhoon. Early in its development, I encountered a severe oscillation during aerial refueling which ultimately led to a complete redesign of the flight control system, 7 years after first flight. The tale was one of blame and obfuscation, trying to hide from an issue that no one wanted to acknowledge or fix. At a time of very fragile political support for Eurofighter, a very bad news story could certainly have wreaked havoc on the program’s hopes for success. While the program ultimately solved the technical issue, the ethical dilemma tainted my view of Eurofighter and every subsequent test program that I flew in.
 
Billy Flynn: "I encountered a severe oscillation during aerial refueling which ultimately led to a complete redesign of the flight control system"
A complete redesign of the FCS? I think I might have noticed given I was on the FCS team throughout that period. (aka it didn't happen).

The reality is fixing an unguarded PIO might have need a couple of tweaks to some filters, or maybe a new filter or two. That wouldn't even show up in the noise of the level of changes we were doing on an annual basis.

It does sort of show up how things look different from different perspectives. To a test pilot the flight control laws are the be-all and end-all of the FCS. To the flight control team they're one of the simpler bits, it's the redundancy management that's really complex.
 
Does the Typhoon still use a backup analogue FCS (In the event there's a total failure of the digital FCS)?
 
Turkish Chief General Staff General Metin GÜRAK, who was in the United Kingdom as part of an official visit , inspected the Coningsby Air Base and examined the Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4 fighter jets that Turkey is negotiating to purchase.
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British EF-2000 FGR at Anatolian Eagle exercise in Konya
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In the interview conducted by Tolga Özbek, Airbus Türkiye Manager Simon Ward said: "Export licenses on the way to being resolved" "We may see Eurofighter in Turkey soon"

View: https://youtu.be/rRA4JsmoFmY?si=jZLhAM4C_DiWegSi&t=741
 
In the interview conducted by Tolga Özbek, Airbus Türkiye Manager Simon Ward said: "Export licenses on the way to being resolved" "We may see Eurofighter in Turkey soon"

View: https://youtu.be/rRA4JsmoFmY?si=jZLhAM4C_DiWegSi&t=741
Here's a machine translation of the transcript:
We are currently at a civilian fair, but I will also have questions for military aviation. One of the agenda items for Turkey is Eurofighter. What is the situation in Turkey from the Airbus perspective?

Airbus plays a major role in the implementation of the Eurofighter project. Eurofighter is also a consortium. It consists of England, Germany, Italy and Spain. In addition to Airbus, it consists of BAE Systems and Leonardo. Each company has different duties. For example, BAE Systems is responsible for finding new customers and making contracts. Airbus is providing serious support both to the development of the project and to Turkey's step towards Eurofighter as an important partner. There is also the export permit aspect of the business. Airbus is providing great support to these efforts in order to overcome political problems. We may see Eurofighter in Turkey soon.


Türkiye is also a major user of the A400M military transport aircraft. The Turkish Air Force is also pleased with the aircraft. Is there any progress on a new order?
The Turkish Air Force is pleased with the planes. They use them very well. They offer significant flexibility for missions to be carried out. But the main problem in such projects is money and budget. Like the rest of the world, Turkey is tightening its belts regarding budget. However, right now, the primary project for Türkiye is a fighter jet.

There were studies on Spain transferring some of its A400M orders to Turkey and giving HÜRJET in return. In fact, TAI recently sent HÜRJET to Spain. What do you think about these developments?

I do not have much information about the details of the subject. Because this is a step taken between the two countries. Such steps are being taken between Turkey and Spain. Spain is negotiating to give some of its A400M orders to Turkey and Turkey is negotiating to sell HÜRJET. But this step is between the two countries.

My last question will be about Turkey's tanker aircraft project. When I interviewed you at İDEF last year, you drew attention to the fact that Airbus also offered Turkey a tanker aircraft to be developed from A330neos.

Turkey has a plan to purchase 7 aircraft to renew its current tanker fleet. The second most important project of the Turkish Air Force, after the fighter plane, is the tanker plane. This is a detailed project. We are discussing many issues such as new or second-hand aircraft, engine options.

How do you see Turkey's regional aviation market for the Airbus A220?

First of all, airlines can use these aircraft on what we call narrow and long routes, flights with low passenger numbers and an average of 4 hours. These types of aircraft are very suitable for Turkey. Because Turkey is the center of the world. Routes can be opened and developed with these aircraft and then lines can be developed for larger aircraft such as A320-A321neo.

Turkish Airlines is growing on the Australian route in long-range flights. Sydney flights will start soon. What are the features of the A350-1000 model that Airbus will deliver compared to the current A350-900s?

First of all, THY will be one of the world's largest A350 users. We are proud that THY's long-range fleet consists of A350s. The issue of Australia is a very exciting step. The start of direct flights is very important for expats living here. As Airbus, we will start delivering the first A350-1000 model as of next year. An important gap will be filled with the delivery of the aircraft. When we compare the A350-900 and 1000 series, the new aircraft has a much longer fuselage. Its fuel tanks are larger and it has a different engine. In this respect, the aircraft are of great importance for non-stop flights from Melbourne to Sydney.

Will there be a difference between the A350-1000 series that THY will receive and the standard A350-1000 that you produce? Will there be extra fuel tanks?

No, these will be standard A350-1000s. They will carry passengers, cargo and fuel within normal standards.
Source: https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/airbus-eurofighteri-kisa-surede-turkiyede-gorebiliriz/
 
I distinctly remember reading years ago that it did have an analogue backup FCS channel in the event of the total failure of the digital FCS, maybe it was fitted only to the prototypes and preproduction aircraft.

You may confuse it with Gripen, or Rafale, which both have a triplex digital system and an analogue backup channel.
 
Did SABB not have to install an analogue system in the Gripen after one of the prototypes crashed during flight testing? I seem to remember that the Gripen was notorious for having problems with it's digital flight control system early on.
 
Did SABB not have to install an analogue system in the Gripen after one of the prototypes crashed during flight testing?

IIRC it was the first prototype and I recall watching its crash on a six o'clock news article, IIRC it lost control when flying over Stockholm and I think it was in 1989 (The pilot managed to eject safely and survived).
 
IIRC it was the first prototype and I recall watching its crash on a six o'clock news article, IIRC it lost control when flying over Stockholm and I think it was in 1989 (The pilot managed to eject safely and survived).

Linköping (now the home of Gripen final assembly line), not Stockholm. The cause of the crash of JAS 39-1 was pilot-induced oscillation which the fly-by-wire FCS was too slow-responding to successfully counteract. Test pilot Lars Rådeström didn't eject, he rode out the crash (the Stockholm crash - on Långholmen - occurred on 08 Aug 1993 and involved a JAS 39A - from which Rådeström did eject).

It wasn't uncommon at that time for PIO 'issues' to emerge during the test-phase of prototypes with fly-by-wire - and, fortunately, Rådeström survived that spectacular 'hard landing'! The fix for Gripen was a faster-responding fly-by-wire (I haven't seen any mention of Saab reverting to an early F-16-style analogue FCS).
 
The ECRS.Mk 2 first flight is covered at:

 
...I seem to remember that the Gripen was notorious for having problems with it's digital flight control system early on.
Some of the notoriety may have stemmed from both early crashes happening in front of TV crews....
ISTR other digital flight control projects (Eurofighter, Rafale, ... ?)paid close attention to what SAAB did to fix the issues.
 
It wasn't uncommon at that time for PIO 'issues' to emerge during the test-phase of prototypes with fly-by-wire - and, fortunately, Rådeström survived that spectacular 'hard landing'! The fix for Gripen was a faster-responding fly-by-wire (I haven't seen any mention of Saab reverting to an early F-16-style analogue FCS).
See the crash of the #2 YF-22 on 25 April 1992, which was a software failure which kept the computer from negating PIOs.

Also the 20 January 1974 runway excursion of a YF-16 due to PIOs - the roll-gain of the flight computer was reduced for all F-16s, both then and later.
 
The ECRS.Mk 2 first flight is covered at:


Good article, only one minor objection, the initial ECRS MK1 Step 0 features already new TRMs compared to the MK0. MK1 Step 1 will then introduce the new MRx.
 
Some of the notoriety may have stemmed from both early crashes happening in front of TV crews....
ISTR other digital flight control projects (Eurofighter, Rafale, ... ?)paid close attention to what SAAB did to fix the issues.
Not just the Gripen, but the YF-22 as well. And it was more it gave everyone a reason to stop and take a serious look at all the filters intended to stop PIO in their own FCSs rather than trying to expressly mimic whatever Saab (actually Lear Astronics IIRC) were doing to theirs.

(But that was about a year before I joined the Eurofighter FCS team, so it's basically hearsay).
 

Turkey has begun three weeks of negotiations on purchasing Eurofighter after Germany finally acquiesced, they want to purchase an initial 24 with options for a further 16.
 
Oh yes, this very day's Opposition newspaper says the German precondition is they will not fly over the Aegean. 24 being superior to 18 of Greeks and thus the only reason for purchase? The claim further goes on about no more territorial claims against Greece, this possibly involving almost 20 small islands "invaded in the last 20 years by Athens"... Yeah, should talk to people for some another ban.
 
"Germany has approved the start of technical talks for the Eurofighter Typhoon.A technical delegation from Germany, England, Spain and Italy, which form the Eurofighter consortium, came to Turkey and started negotiations.The talks, which are planned to last approximately three weeks, will discuss many technical details, including the stages of the procurement process for fighter jets, how personnel training will be provided, and how maintenance programs will be implemented.If Germany gives final approval to the sale after technical talks, Turkey will receive 24 Eurofighter fighter jets in the first phase as soon as possible. This number will be increased to 40 in the later stages of the process."

View: https://x.com/TyrannosurusRex/status/1844787638483722323
 
"Germany has approved the start of technical talks for the Eurofighter Typhoon.A technical delegation from Germany, England, Spain and Italy, which form the Eurofighter consortium, came to Turkey and started negotiations.The talks, which are planned to last approximately three weeks, will discuss many technical details, including the stages of the procurement process for fighter jets, how personnel training will be provided, and how maintenance programs will be implemented.If Germany gives final approval to the sale after technical talks, Turkey will receive 24 Eurofighter fighter jets in the first phase as soon as possible. This number will be increased to 40 in the later stages of the process."

View: https://x.com/TyrannosurusRex/status/1844787638483722323
In the interview conducted by Tolga Özbek, Airbus Türkiye Manager Simon Ward said: "Export licenses on the way to being resolved" "We may see Eurofighter in Turkey soon"

View: https://youtu.be/rRA4JsmoFmY?si=jZLhAM4C_DiWegSi&t=741
Update (Via: Sanchez/Defencehub)

Tolga Özbek claims Turkey is interested in second hand EF-2000s from gulf countries to speed up the procurement, probably Saudi or Qatar. But I doubt it, Yaşar Güler did state that they're not interested in second hand jets in the past. Unlike the previously reported UK T1s though, Saudi and Qatar jets are pretty new. Saudis have 48 T2 and 24 T3s and Qatar is still getting the delivery of its 24 T3s, I think only half or so were delivered until now. Maybe they want to get Qatar's yet to be delivered T3s as a stop gap(for the stopgap..)

There's also this to consider. Certifying Turkish munitions and avionics for EF-2000 will take time but it's very good that it's being worked on before a deal is possibly reached.

"...The most important condition for the purchase is the integration of these systems into Eurofighter aircraft. In the last few weeks, teams from Turkish defense companies such as ASELSAN, Roketsan and HAVELSAN have been meeting with Eurofighter teams. One of Turkey's important conditions for integration is that it wants local and national systems to be included in the aircraft."
https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/eurofighterda-ilk-adim-ikinci-el/
 

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