Barrington Bond said:http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200202.html?search=blue%20streak
Michel Van said:those looks more like upperstage for Blue Streak...
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Hi Barringtoin Bond.
Super posting. My first impression was yes.
Now not sure
Now Agree with Michel Van
It was planned that Blue Streak No 11 the first UK/Commonwealth Military SLV was to have launched dummy upper stages.
These upper stages were also to be launched separately, in a development series.
Believe the option was for either Two, Three and Four vehicle launcher package.
Not sure until I find document and read it again but maybe the three upper-stages also being capable of independently launching a small satellite to LEO?
I believe but not certain that these were different and bigger than the proposed Black Knight derived civil vehicle.
Have No details but these models seem to fit the planned first Military phase.
The planned TSR2 secure communication net north would have needed to cover the high latitude regions and a four stage vehicle might be useful?
The proposed RR LH/LOX rockets are of interest have seen drawings of different engines but do not know the vehicles they were intended for.
Fifteen ton thrust engine is big and seems more likely atop the cargo SLV.?
Would the Tree ton or Six ton LH /LOX Rolls-Royce engine fit the Second stage?
OMG Wat a Discovery !Barrington Bond said:They are not definitely named but the article mentions Blue Streak with Italian boosters and Blue Treak boosters but I'm not sure that is what the pics are of?!
Regards,
Barry
Michel Van said:Interesting
B5 sound ELDO-B study
on Italian solid Booster for TA Europa Rockets
can this be a spin off from the ALFA missile ?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2808.0.html
next to that was Europa IIIC by FIAT (yes the Car builder)
odd proposal of a 4xRZ.2 Engine Blue Streak, but Build by the French and Italy ! ! !
French Nord Aviation build the propellants Tanks and FIAT the rest
then the stages had move to England for test firering
(the 4XRZ.2 are thrust reduce !)
and there to Launch site, with Italy that had be San Marco Launch platform :
Spark said:Hi Michel
This may explain why the only existing detailed drawings of the 4xRZ2 cluster are to be found in Italy
Michel Van said:i Found littel bit more Info
in 1970 were FIVE Proposal for EUROPA III
Europa IIIA Blue Streak with H14 - launch mass 110t
Europa IIIB French L120 with H25 - launch mass 160t
Europa IIIC L140 (4xRZ-13) with H17 - launch mass 175t
Europa IIID H50 with H17 - launch mass 78t
Europa IIIE Cluster
the IIIE design is very vague a 3 stage rocket from Cluster of fuel tanks
7 tanks in first stage 3 in second and Coralie as Third stage
is Europa IIIE identical with Supervulcain B ?
got some one info about this, Please !
in end Europa IIIB was the winner and later reborn as Ariane 1
source (in German)
http://www.bernd-leitenberger.de/europa.shtml
1972
MAN in co-operation with LRBA develops an economical concept for a satellite launching system. M.Simon. MA JV. Res. Eng. Mfg. (Germany), no. 1. p.7-9 (1971)
The following satellite launching system programme EUROPA III E is presented; In a first phase, short-term development of the optimal-cost system with medium-energy (N:0»/UDMH), parallel-clustered modules in the 1st and 2nd stage
blackstar said:Does that Turquoise H enlarge for the upper stage, then get a little narrower? Or is that just a scanning issue?
If so, I think that's cool, but it strikes me as impractical. Engineers prefer to avoid hammerhead shapes on rockets if they can, because it makes the aerodynamics more complicated. Best to keep the same diameter if possible, but if you have to change it, don't then change it again.
blackstar said:Thanks. There are probably other reasons why Turquoise was not built.
They could easily solve the diameter problem by making the shroud the same diameter as the upper stage. That would increase weight, but probably not too much.
Michel Van said:What for surprise
on NTRS got a PDF about ELDO-B1 B2 program !
http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19660001120
Michel Van said:I wandet to this today
blackstar said:Michel Van said:I wandet to this today
Er... what?
Too bad the original quality is poor. The lines are faded.
mz said:Michel Van said:What for surprise
on NTRS got a PDF about ELDO-B1 B2 program !
http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19660001120
European public relations and information outreach are about a thousand times worse than American. We have to rely on NASA for information on European launchers.
Archibald said:So true ! Recently I located a 1982 CNES paper on early Ariane 5 concepts; it was on NTRS, and inj english, that I red and downloaded it...
Archibald said:Thank you Michel. I wanted to post the link to the document, but I've lost it on my hard disk... it sunk without a trace