Early european rocketry projects

[Michel Van]

Astronautics & Aeronautics - sorry but I didn't write down the year...

Regards,
Barry

Sorry pardon, the 2,200 kg to GSO was for a Triple Blue Streak with LH/LOX upper stages. Not the one shown.

Barry was the year of the illustration circa 1967~68?

Spark, is that Triple Blue Streak a Europa Tust Augmented ?
(from the "Advisory Committee on Programmes" set up by the European Space Conference during its meeting in Rome in July 1967.)

to Europa IV that must be one of last proposal for Blue Streak in 1970's
because after literature, Europa IV program was planed to start in 1978 !

 

[Barrington Bond]

Might have been earlier - I can only check when I am next able to attend the library I got it from... that may not be soon.

Regards,
Barry

 

[Barrington Bond]

The mag in question was a 1968 issue...

 

[Barrington Bond]

Whiling away my time in London on Sunday waiting for my evening 50th Anniversary Radiophonic Workshop concert I decided to visit the Science Museum in Kensington...

 

[Spark]

The perfect crime!

Introduce the Delta cukoo within Ariane future nest ;D and let Nature do the rest...
I think Delta would have filled the gap... until today. Ariane would never have existed!

What did it cost to develop the first Ariane SLV?
What did they charge for Deltas?

 

[Spark]

i reading on Europa space "in deep" History here
1958-1973 ESRO-ELDO 459 pages
http://www.esa.int/esapub/sp/sp1235/sp1235v1web.pdf
1973-1987 ESA 691 pages
http://www.esa.int/esapub/sp/sp1235/sp1235v2web.pdf


found interesting news thinks

ELDO-C
is another name for ELDO-B2 (with 2 stage LOX/LH2 )
up to 7000 kg in low orbit

Europa IV
had to planed 3-4 years after Europa III (around 1978)
for payloads of 2 tons into GEO

another new find
it seem that the french VULCAIN proposal from LRBA was also EUROPA-1 alternative
in 1969 UK Labour minister Wedgwood Benn wanted to kill Blue Streak and ELDO

there was the L.95 Proposal by French Nord Aviation, LRBA, SEREB and Germand Bölkow
Nord Aviation proposed as alternative to L95 stage, a cluster of seven L17 (Diamant B) for first stage of Europa rocket
and LRBA propose VULCAIN
first stage, cluster of four L17, second Coralie, third stage P4 Solid fuel
(in the time the German third stage Astris on Europa-1 show during testflight serious malfunction )

so by Kenneth W. Garland in Flight International 16 may 1968

Hi Michel,
Sorry, the history of Blue Streak as written in this document is piffle. It is not helped by the fact that Macmillan wanted the UK to join the EU and UK Aerospace could be given away to gain membership and the UK Government told Fibs.
Hint,
Allowing for maintenance Woomera LOX plant production was potentially 18,000 ton annually, How many Blue Streaks would you have to build in a year to use 18,000 ton of LOX?
Area 6, 6A and 6B launch pads each were built to take 1,000,000lbf SLV?
The planned comsat net for TSR2 was to have been launched by RAF Blue Streaks, these were not the same as used for ELDO, the RZ14 with a much bigger payload!
The RZ14 reduced vehicle mass by about the equivalent of a Austin Mini, and gave more thrust!

 

[Michel Van]

Hi Michel,
Sorry, the history of Blue Streak as written in this document is piffle. It is not helped by the fact that Macmillan wanted the UK to join the EU and UK Aerospace could be given away to gain membership and the UK Government told Fibs.
Hint,
Allowing for maintenance Woomera LOX plant production was potentially 18,000 ton annually, How many Blue Streaks would you have to build in a year to use 18,000 ton of LOX?
Area 6, 6A and 6B launch pads each were built to take 1,000,000lbf SLV?
The planned comsat net for TSR2 was to have been launched by RAF Blue Streaks, these were not the same as used for ELDO, the RZ14 with a much bigger payload!
The RZ14 reduced vehicle mass by about the equivalent of a Austin Mini, and gave more thrust!

RZ14 is that not this 4-3,8 meter ø x 12 meter rocket with 4 RZ.2 ?
18000 tons LOX that more wat NASA neede for Saturn V launches per year !!!

The perfect crime!

Introduce the Delta cuckoo within Ariane future nest ;D and let Nature do the rest...
I think Delta would have filled the gap... until today. Ariane would never have existed!

What did it cost to develop the first Ariane SLV?
What did they charge for Deltas?

good question
after ERSO Plans
the Delta had buy at McDonnel-Douglas and also pay them for the launch.
sorry have no data on Delta cost
Delta 2314 payload 500 kg, Delta 2914 payload 724 kg, Delta 3914 payload 951 kg in LEO
the Ariane 1 had Payload 1400 kg in LEO

the Development cost for Ariane 1 was 2 Bilion €
(not include the cost on Europa III Study who used later Ariane hardware)
Launch cost 46 million €

Whiling away my time in London on Sunday waiting for my evening 50th Anniversary Radiophonic Workshop concert I decided to visit the Science Museum in Kensington...

I have a question on Fotos:
how big is the X-3 Prospero Satellite ?

 

[Spark]

Hi Michel,
Sorry, the history of Blue Streak as written in this document is piffle. It is not helped by the fact that Macmillan wanted the UK to join the EU and UK Aerospace could be given away to gain membership and the UK Government told Fibs.
Hint,
Allowing for maintenance Woomera LOX plant production was potentially 18,000 ton annually, How many Blue Streaks would you have to build in a year to use 18,000 ton of LOX?
Area 6, 6A and 6B launch pads each were built to take 1,000,000lbf SLV?
The planned comsat net for TSR2 was to have been launched by RAF Blue Streaks, these were not the same as used for ELDO, the RZ14 with a much bigger payload!




The RZ14 reduced vehicle mass by about the equivalent of a Austin Mini, and gave more thrust!

RZ14 is that not this 4-3,8 meter ø x 12 meter rocket with 4 RZ.2 ?
18000 tons LOX that more wat NASA neede for Saturn V launches per year !!!

The perfect crime!

Introduce the Delta cuckoo within Ariane future nest ;D and let Nature do the rest...
I think Delta would have filled the gap... until today. Ariane would never have existed!

What did it cost to develop the first Ariane SLV?
What did they charge for Deltas?

good question
after ERSO Plans
the Delta had buy at McDonnel-Douglas and also pay them for the launch.
sorry have no data on Delta cost
Delta 2314 payload 500 kg, Delta 2914 payload 724 kg, Delta 3914 payload 951 kg in LEO
the Ariane 1 had Payload 1400 kg in LEO

the Development cost for Ariane 1 was 2 Bilion €
(not include the cost on Europa III Study who used later Ariane hardware)
Launch cost 46 million €

Whiling away my time in London on Sunday waiting for my evening 50th Anniversary Radiophonic Workshop concert I decided to visit the Science Museum in Kensington...

I have a question on Fotos:
how big is the X-3 Prospero Satellite ?

Hi Michel,

The RZ2 was a development engine for Blue Streak.

The RZ12, two RZ2 made a cluster designated as RZ12 by Rolls Royce.


The RZ3 was the original basic light weight engine for the operational Blue Streak Missile. (First planned test flight 1963)

The RZ13, two RZ3 made a cluster designated as RZ13 by Rolls Royce originally plan was for use in operational missile

The RZ14 was a super advanced single engine connected to two RZ2 thrust chambers to retain the original Blue Streak gimballed control.. Was for use in the RAF SLV giving potentially in excess of 400,000lbf thrust.


The RZ1? Was a the Definitive military engine for the Blue Streak Missile that used storable propellants but would have been deployed Globally. Not sure about production line?

ALL these engines RZ12, RZ13 and RZ14 could be substituted when necessary on the assembly line that was planned by the MoS to produce Fifty units each year..

The RZ 14 when substituted for RZ12 saved over a thousand pounds of weight and only used one and a half pints of oil when compared to forty gallons of lubricating oil for the RZ12, this is an additional saving of 320lbs


The RZ 14 was also planned with a single thrust chamber giving again potentially in excess of 400,000lbf thrust.

Two RZ14 could be substituted on the 14ft Diameter SLV during manufacture.

LOX, correct answer, hard to believe but YES the RAF would have had the ability to orbit the equivalent of over One hundred Saturn 1 payloads annually if called for with the Existing Woomera facilities.


Blue Streak COST per first stage SLV was £250,000 (1960£ value) Black Knight cost per vehicle £43,000 (1960£ value)

 

[Spark]

Here is a piccie of the Z124 concept

Hi PMN1

Just a thought but the Victor Bomb-bay was much bigger and the Victor was faster with a higher ceiling and greater carrying capacity than the Vulcan.
The Cryogenic Black Arrow would have fitted in the Victor ; plus 1965 RAE or Elliot’s Electric drive as eventually planned for Black Arrow would give say Half a ton to GSO well before 1970 how does this compare to Atlas at that time or even Blue Streak.

 

[Michel Van]

The RZ1? Was a the Definitive military engine for the Blue Streak Missile that used storable propellants but would have been deployed Globally. Not sure about production line?

can be the RZ1 was for prototype design and testmodel
a uprated LOX/RP-1 fuelled S2D engine by Rocketdyne ?

after ESA History PDF http://www.esa.int/esapub/sp/sp1235/sp1235v1web.pdf
on page 82

Rolls Royce acquired the design rights on the engines developed by the Rocketdyne division of NAA!
De Havillands collaborated closely with Convair on the structure of the rocket.

Blue Streak cost until February 1960 £240 million of research and development.
another £240 milion were need to make the MRBM operationell in 1967-68
production and install 125 missiles in hardened underground silos.
total cost (at least) £500 million spread over eight years.

how much in today Pound Sterling ?
this pdf cover the inflation of Pound from 1750 to 2005
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2006/rp06-009.pdf
15.4 more or £3.7 billion for development the Blue Streak and per launch £3.85 milion

 

[Barrington Bond]

Prospero size?! Titchy...

 

[Michel Van]

Prospero size?! Titchy...

thanks for picture, is that wat i looking for

Prospero is still in orbit and it transmitt data on 137.560 MHz !
Not bad for some thing was build from leftover parts

 

[PMN1]

OK, so we have two Blue Steaks attached to a third Blue Streak to form a Delta IV / Atlas V type common core booster design - would this have required any changes to the basic Blue Streak and if so what were they?

If you have two Blue Streaks around a third Blue Streak, then could you attach 2 or more Blue Streaks to a larger diameter core to make an equivalent of Energia-M or Energia but with less capability?

 

[Barrington Bond]

Don't know I'm not an engineer - the article it came from I didn't bother having copied any other page because it was purely about the politics and agendas of the different participant countries.

Regards,
Barry

 

[Michel Van]

OK, so we have two Blue Steaks attached to a third Blue Streak to form a Delta IV / Atlas V type common core booster design - would this have required any changes to the basic Blue Streak and if so what were they?

If you have two Blue Streaks around a third Blue Streak, then could you attach 2 or more Blue Streaks to a larger diameter core to make an equivalent of Energia-M or Energia but with less capability?

question had we here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2906.0.html

not with normal Blue Streak
The B S was build like ICBM Atlas, Tanks made out 0,48 mm thin metal Sheets.
the central stage has to be reinforced
ticker metall sheet or Kerosene tank structure Stringer (or stiffener) are extended to top of stage

as Boosters for a central core? could work !

 

[Spark]

OK, so we have two Blue Steaks attached to a third Blue Streak to form a Delta IV / Atlas V type common core booster design - would this have required any changes to the basic Blue Streak and if so what were they?

If you have two Blue Streaks around a third Blue Streak, then could you attach 2 or more Blue Streaks to a larger diameter core to make an equivalent of Energia-M or Energia but with less capability?

Hi PMN1

Minimum. The idea was looked at in detail by De Havilland Engineers. The four points near the base of the missile that the clamps locked on to hold it down during tests were considered ideal points for attachment.

With minimal changes and strengthening at the top.

The external panniers had to be removed and the contents distributed with in the engine bay to clean up the external profile.

Note. With high energy upper stages the payload LEO was in excess of ten tons a mature system would have given about a 20ton payload.

The RAF RZ14 variants must have been even better. If you strip the equivalent of three Austin Minis from theses stages it has to be good.

You have a choice of RAF14D, RAF16D and RAF20D variants. As I understand it work at some level was progressing on the RAF14D and RAF16D up to the time of the June 1960 cancellation.
I was told by Charles Martin that a lot of work was also done on a 15D version assume this was later than 1958 and to be compatible with American military efforts.
The Woomera Facilities were built to accommodate the larger variants but not the three in a row would need a different stand.
There was a problem with the 20D. The existing Gantry was not larger enough and the gimballed thrust limit at Spadeadam was 1,000,000lbf. this may have been a problem as well.

 

[Spark]

OK, so we have two Blue Steaks attached to a third Blue Streak to form a Delta IV / Atlas V type common core booster design - would this have required any changes to the basic Blue Streak and if so what were they?

If you have two Blue Streaks around a third Blue Streak, then could you attach 2 or more Blue Streaks to a larger diameter core to make an equivalent of Energia-M or Energia but with less capability?

question had we here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2906.0.html




not with normal Blue Streak
The B S was build like ICBM Atlas, Tanks made out 0,48 mm thin metal Sheets.
the central stage has to be reinforced
ticker metall sheet or Kerosene tank structure Stringer (or stiffener) are extended to top of stage

as Boosters for a central core? could work !

Hi Michel
Interesting, agreed about general history but may one add a Ministry document in 1959 gave an estimate for cost per round for the operational missile of £500,000 plus £2.500,000 for each “H bomb” (1959£ value)
The missile cost included the military guidance system. With simple control, Pardoe gave an estimate in 1960/61 for a first stage Blue Streak SLV as £250,000 each (1960£ value)
But one assumes that cost is based on an annual capacity production run of fifty units.
Given that reasoning, if just one unit was produced it would cost about £12,500,000, (1960£ value)?

The impression is that inflation estimates appear contrived and are political. My personal opinion is that the UK inflation over that period is significantly worse. based on costs that I remember the UK£ Sterling since the middle fifties is now worth less than one hundredth of what it was then.


Blue Streak Tank structure was originally designed to take18g with a “heavy weapon package” on top. Think of that as six double-decker buses on top of a giant beer can by 1967 they discovered it was stronger than anticipated so you could probably add the passengers to the total? Keep to a maximum 3g you have an idea of the lifting capability. Agreed about top tank strengthening but I do not know at what point it would be needed They could also just increase thickness and have seen figures for the extra weight but can not recall what they were. At the start of the programme the English Electric Delta3 LRBM with conventional tanks were thought of as a suitable alternative.

 

[Spark]

relating to an earlier quote, ''The planned comsat net for TSR2 was to have been launched by RAF Blue Streaks'' what was the satellite system intended for this use (an earlier incarnation of Skynet? or something else?)
ill admit i havent come across anything in the TSR.2 files at the records office other than a passing mention of 'secure salellite communications link'

many thanks, Joe

Hi Joe
Sorry not a lot I remember about or before TSR2 cancellation it was said they would have to look at high flying Vulcans to act as com.relay because the original Satellite programme had been cancelled.
C. Martin said that number eleven from the BS production line was to have been the first dedicated Military trials satellite launch vehicle with dummy upper stages. The upper stages were to be trialled independently but this was for the Military system and sorry do not know the details but Rolls Royce, Bristol and maybe Armstrong were looking at LH/LOX upper stages at this period.
The systems orbits was to have been a bit unusual Not sure of the make but Marconi comes to mind

UK LH and LOX work started formally in 1951

 

[Michel Van]

The RZ1? Was a the Definitive military engine for the Blue Streak Missile that used storable propellants but would have been deployed Globally. Not sure about production line?

can be the RZ1 was for prototype design and testmodel
a uprated LOX/RP-1 fuelled S2D engine by Rocketdyne ?

after Nicolas Hill book "A Vertical Empire" on page 78
Rolls Royce build a Copy of S3 Engine called RZ-1

the S3 used in Jupiter MRBM
http://www.astronautix.com/engines/s3.htm#S-3D
S3 look almost like a twin of RZ-2

Source online:
http://books.google.com/books?id=AzoCJfTmRDsC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=Rolls+Royce+RZ20+engine&source=bl&ots=ckatncAx2g&sig=4I1Z5_z9bn15YWKvuoOPE49z8No&hl=de&ei=ivMbSrCLMoWsjAeUotnsDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA78,M1

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

A Vulcan as airborne coms relay? Intruiging, considering the era. Of course, today a UAV could be tasked with that mission. But the Vulcan idea is still fascinating no less. I think a thread on this over in Postwar would be good.

Moonbat

 

[Spark]

The RZ1? Was a the Definitive military engine for the Blue Streak Missile that used storable propellants but would have been deployed Globally. Not sure about production line?

can be the RZ1 was for prototype design and testmodel
a uprated LOX/RP-1 fuelled S2D engine by Rocketdyne ?

after Nicolas Hill book "A Vertical Empire" on page 78
Rolls Royce build a Copy of S3 Engine called RZ-1

Hi Michel,

Many thanks for the reply, my fault it was not made clear what was meant when asking the question..

By chance I was at Derby looking at a RZ1 today and comparing it with the RZ2 and looking at the changes made at Rolls-Royce so was not asking after this engine.

I was asking what was the Rolls-Royce designation for the Storable bi-propellant Blue Streak engine was it RZ15 or maybe RZ16. a lot of the documentation from this period was deliberately destroyed by the company on Government orders. There just are not many key people surviving from that period, So today I asked at Derby if any one knew any one who might be able to help.
One lives in hope
Again today I showed a former top rocket man the drawings of the RZ14 who at that time worked for another British rocket engine manufacturer who was amazed that they infringed his work and his former company’s patterns. This, his work many years later directly influenced the French Ariane design and directly contributed to its success.
So I am looking for information on the RZ15 RZ16 RZ17 RZ18 RZ19 RZ21 and RZ22

 

[Michel Van]

So I am looking for information on the RZ15 RZ16 RZ17 RZ18 RZ19 RZ21 and RZ22

can this help you ?
the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust at UK archives network
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=144-pa1716_1&cid=1#1

to RZ-20 that was LOX/Lh2 engine with 60 kN trust approximately in size of a RL-10
http://www.spaceuk.org/hydrogen/rr.htm

 

[Spark]

So I am looking for information on the RZ15 RZ16 RZ17 RZ18 RZ19 RZ21 and RZ22

can this help you ?
the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust at UK archives network
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=144-pa1716_1&cid=1#1

to RZ-20 that was LOX/Lh2 engine with 60 kN trust approximately in size of a RL-10
http://www.spaceuk.org/hydrogen/rr.htm

Hi Michel,

Many thanks you have helped clear up the part of RZ21 and RZ22 mystery. Rolls Royce took over Bristol Siddeley designs new designation. In another case the original engine Siddeley designer did not know Rolls-Royce’s new designation for one of his own designs.

Hi Barry,

May I use your Pictures of Black Knight at the Science Museum to illustrate a talk, please?

 

[Barrington Bond]

Sure you can - but don't you mean Black Arrow

This is Black Knight (well a model anyway) and its re-entry body.

 

[Spark]

Sure you can - but don't you mean Black Arrow

This is Black Knight (well a model anyway) and its re-entry body.

Hi Barry,

Whooops, yes you are right, Black Arrow. Many thanks!

Another question, the The Black Arrow Firststage Gamma 8 engine cluster Dryweight?

 

[Barrington Bond]

Sorry, don't have that information

Regards,
Barry

best I can do is this link...

http://www.spaceuk.org/ba/ba_dimensions.htm

 

[Michel Van]

do no one use google anymore ?

i found this at http://www.astronautix.com/engines/gamma8.htm

Engine Model: Gamma 8. Designer: Bristol Siddley. Propellants: H2O2/Kerosene.
Thrust(vac): 234.800 kN (52,785 lbf). Thrust(sl): 222.400 kN (49,998 lbf).
Isp: 265 sec. Isp (sea level): 251 sec. Burn time: 142 sec.
Mass Engine: 342 kg (753 lb). Diameter: 1.98 m (6.49 ft).
Chambers: 1. Chamber Pressure: 47.40 bar.
Oxidizer to Fuel Ratio: 8.20. Thrust to Weight Ratio: 70.01.
Country: UK. Status: Out of production. First Flight: 1969. Last Flight: 1971. Flown: 4.00.

take 60 sec
to find it and post it here...

 

[Barrington Bond]

Doc Air Espace January 1966.

 

[Michel Van]

that french "Pierres précieuses" program (or gemstones in English)

its goal was to development and construction of missiles and there guidance system
for French nuclear strike force and launch of satellite.

Solid fueled rocket
Agathe: development of measuring equipment on board and on ground
Topaze: development & test guidance system
Rubis: development & test (with Agathe ) of stage separation
Liquid fueled rocket
Émeraude: test for reentry Warheads for Nuclear weapon
Saphir: development & test of stage separation - (Émeraude and Topaze)
(most Émeraude & Saphir launches were warhead test)

Diamant: launch rocket - Émeraude, Topaze, Rubis
Cora: better know as Coralie, second stage of Europa 1&2 was also a "Pierres précieuses"

note on Émeraude
in original French proposal for join venture British space Program
was to use Émeraude as second stage on Blue Streak

the Technology used on Émeraude origin from Véronique sounding rocket
Véronique (VERnon et electrONIQUE) aka Project 4213
is the only rocket from the project 4211 aka Super-V2

France got after WW2 parts of 30 V-2 and thirty German engineers
and try to rebuild them for own V-2 rockets
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/superv2.htm

but project 4211 was cancelled in 1948 and
the team concentrated on development of the one-tenth scale Project 4213 / Veronique

so ironically Véronique and "Pierres précieuses" got also German origins

 

[Barrington Bond]

Doc Air Espace No 98 Mai 1966.

ELDO C

 

[Michel Van]

Doc Air Espace No 98 Mai 1966.

ELDO C

interesting a new version

the first stage is 4 engine Blue Streak
that pop up back 1970 as EUROPA-IIIC

you got more info about this rocket ?

 

[Barrington Bond]

;D
I copied the whole article but as it is in French I cannot read it.

 

[Michel Van]

;D
I copied the whole article but as it is in French I cannot read it.

wat i can read very good ;D

 

[Michel Van]

and by Magic here Translation

the Original Article is from M.J. Ménard
chef of space study service at Center for cryogenic study of Society l'Air liquide

after general explanation over Hydrogene and oxygen fuel

he come to ELDO-A
if they replace second and third stage
with Lox/Lh2 of same mass, payload increase from 1t to 3 tons

for the ELDO-C
third stage H5 with 2 or 2,3 meter ø and fuel mass of 5 Tons

Ménard describes the thermal problem of stage structures
from 150 °Kelvin to 2500 °Kelvin and about the isolation of stage fuel tanks

also he describe the alloy for tanks
were he wonders about use of Aluminum AU4SG in Saturn II and S-IV stage
because its bad weld properties
in France AU4SG is labeled Aluminium-copper (série 2000)
Ménard proposed the use of Aluminium-Zink (sèrie 7000) or
Aluminium-magesium (série 5000) because they have better weld properties
he consider alloy AG4MC too poor in mechanical stress
and alloy AZ5G as promiss for future use
and warns about the use of Titan for LOX tank because it will form titanoxyde.

the next pages Ménard talks about Isolation of the tanks
he describe the technology used in Saturn Rocket and proposed also advance system
like gas barriers between the Tankhull shells

special thanks to Barrington Bond for providing the data ;D

 

[Barrington Bond]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%202762.html?search=kenya

 

[Barrington Bond]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%200785.html

 

[Barrington Bond]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%203423.html?search=blue%20streak

 

[Barrington Bond]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200202.html?search=blue%20streak

 

[Spark]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200202.html?search=blue%20streak

Hi Barry,

Interesting proposal, a friend had the third stage engines from this or the alternative 3rd stage Black Arrow as a door stop in his garage. But a vague recollection that they have now been passed on to a collection? The point is that it seems that the technology existed for a UK SLV civil programme and could have been in place by about 1962 and at less cost than the redundancies?

 

[Spark]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200202.html?search=blue%20streak

Hi Barry,

Interesting proposal, a friend had the third stage engines from this or the alternative 3rd stage Black Arrow as a door stop in his garage. But a vague recollection that they have now been passed on to a collection? The point is that it seems that the technology existed for a UK SLV civil programme and could have been in place by about 1962 and at less cost than the redundancies?

Sorry pardon, it was the alternative Black Arrow engine and only a model. Should have checked first