Dassault Rafale NEWS ONLY

[Archibald]

I personally think the Aéronavale Rafale number is already too low: 40-47, when the initial target was 60 and (a long time ago) 71 or even 100 were the "classic" numbers for aircraft like the Etendard IV, Jaguar M, or Super Etendard.

With a number already uncomfortably low, sharing 4 Rafales with India isn't negligible. Damn, 4 of 40, that's 10% of the fleet !

On a more positive note, I hope that first foreign order, ever, for the Rafale-M will help the case of the Aéronavale. They need a little more than 40-something airframes. Give them 50 or a bit more.

(personal note: that post is not a provocation toward @TomcatViP . But if that post gets deleted - I'm OK with that.)

 

[Deltafan]

https://theprint.in/defence/dassault-aviation-seeks-to-buy-out-reliance-stake-in-defence-facility-set-up-100-venture-in-india/1672150/

 

[isayyo2]

With a number already uncomfortably low, sharing 4 Rafales with India isn't negligible. Damn, 4 of 40, that's 10% of the fleet !

I can only imagine that small fleet of 40 has been used hard. Do you know when the MN received their last Rafale M?

 

[Deltafan]

I can only imagine that small fleet of 40 has been used hard. Do you know when the MN received their last Rafale M?

According to Wikipedia : October 2015.

 

[H_K]

According to Wikipedia : October 2015.

Small correction: The last new Rafale Ms were delivered in April 2016, according to the excellent DeltaReflex site.

Delta Reflex - Rechercher

These were M46 and M41. Which is an interesting side story as the original M41 was wrecked while still on the assembly line (apparently it fell from its rig) so a replacement M41 had to be built and this was the last Rafale M delivered!

I personally think the Aéronavale Rafale number is already too low: 40-47, when the initial target was 60 and (a long time ago) 71 or even 100 were the "classic" numbers for aircraft like the Etendard IV, Jaguar M, or Super Etendard

I can’t find the relevant news article quotes, but official explanations have mentioned some more or less convincing reasons for the smaller Rafale fleet, including low attrition, less maintenance, easier to fly, improved networked simulators etc.

There’s probably some truth to this… 30% to 50% of all Etendards/ Super Etendards/ Crusaders were lost in accidents. The Crusaders were maintenance hogs, the Etendard IVP was a micro fleet etc… so basically back in the day the Aeronavale was buying/operating large fleets just to keep 3.5 flotilles operational, plus a small conversion unit. Today there are still 3 flotilles, all on one multirole type, with some of the conversion training burden shared with Air Force Rafales. So while a few more Rafale Ms would be welcome, the Aéronavale appears to make do without impacting the CdG’s ability to operate to its maximum potential with 24-30 Rafales.

 

[Scorpion82]

I personally think the Aéronavale Rafale number is already too low: 40-47, when the initial target was 60 and (a long time ago) 71 or even 100 were the "classic" numbers for aircraft like the Etendard IV, Jaguar M, or Super Etendard.

Where did you get that numbers from? 86 was the original requirement. It went directly down to 60 in 1996. IIRC France was originally planning for two new carriers, not just one.

 

[TomcatViP]

A multi-billion Carrier group must be built for attrition. Otherwise it is not much relevant. With an aircraft fleet that can't sustain a 2 weeks fight against a peer, France would probably do better without them, focusing on missile launcher and frigates.
This is why you need aircraft, in number, with a potent flight potential (Rafale M are the oldest ones).
See in posts above how Rafale deliveries are postponed by two years.

Crusader in French Naval aviation was a maintenance hog because it was so old that no spare parts were available.

 

[Ainen]

With an aircraft fleet that can't sustain a 2 weeks fight against a peer

From that i remember about naval peer operations involving carriers, '2 weeks' is not the number to worry about...

 

[TomcatViP]

You might then remember that after 2 weeks on station you are supposed to resuply...
2 to 4 aircraft missing (5 to 10% of the fleet) for being on lease with a foreign Navy can only exacerbate the paradigm. It should not be hard to understand.

 

[Ainen]

You might then remember that after 2 weeks on station you are supposed to resuply...

I meant that peer carrier action sustainability problems are not that long, carrier is not an airbase.

Within 12 hrs of high sea action, if carrier had sudden sustainability problems - it was typically either half of the airwing gone(in combat or due to damage to the deck), or a desperate DC effort, often with an unhappy torpedo ending.

 

[BlackBat242]

Crusader in French Naval aviation was a maintenance hog because it was so old that no spare parts were available.

Except for those in airframes at a desert storage facility in the US southwest.

France did periodically send "grave robbers" to pick the bones of the USN's retired Crusaders.

 

[Deltafan]

https://www.capital.fr/entreprises-marches/dassault-aviation-pourrait-signer-une-nouvelle-commande-de-rafale-avec-le-qatar-1475078#:~:text=De%20son%20c%C3%B4t%C3%A9%2C%20le%20Qatar,un%20lot%20de%2024%20appareils

(...)
Qatar (...) already has 36 (Rafale), delivered in 2022. But according to information from (French economic Daily Newspaper) La Tribune, the emirate could sign a new order very soon: 2024 or 2025, the date is not decided, but it would be a batch of 24 devices. Nothing has yet been formalized, but according to information from La Tribune, the subject was discussed on the sidelines of the visit of the Minister of the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu, to Doha on July 17. The minister met with the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, and the discussions focused on "strengthening the Franco-Qatari strategic partnership, based on diplomatic, operational and industrial cooperation", as Sébastien Lecornu explained in a press release.
(...)
There would even have been a "dense interview" with Khalid bin Mohammed Al-Attiyah, the Minister of Defense. Qatar would indeed like to upgrade its 36 Rafale to the F4 standard.
(...)

To be confirmed (or not) ...

 

[TomcatViP]

India requests Rafale to be equipped with ASTRA missile and SAaw gliding bomb:

https://www.capital.fr/entreprises-marches/linde-a-demande-a-dassault-aviation-de-modifier-ses-rafale-pour-les-equipes-de-ses-propres-armes-1475108

 

[stealthflanker]

WIll that be really got funded tho... At some point they were also proposed their Rafale to fire Kh-31. But nothing comes from that.

 

[TomcatViP]

French AdlAE Rafale got spare part airlifted by an... F-35.

White had one other example of how agile basing drove unorthodox responses, one akin to wartime operations. It involved one of the French Rafale fighters taking part, along with the Japanese Self Defense Force, which needed a replacement part. The team communicated with Guam, found the part and got it loaded on an F-35A headed that way, he said.

Agile basing gets real world test in Pacific Northern Edge: replace F-15 engine on small island - Breaking Defense

"They worked basically until the end of their duty day, got up early the next morning to finish it off, ran the engine and had it ready to go within about 12 hours of the C-130 touching down."

breakingdefense.com

 

[stealthflanker]

Step to a firmer order. Guess 24 out of total 42 got funded.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1689618752885645312

View: https://twitter.com/Dassault_OnAir/status/1689618752885645312

 

[H_K]

With this Indonesian tranche and the Indian Navy’s Rafale M selection (26 aircraft - not yet officially signed though), this puts total Rafale exports at 293 aircraft.

… so Rafale exports are now officially ahead of Mirage 2000 (284 aircraft).

 

[Deltafan]

Step to a firmer order. Guess 24 out of total 42 got funded.

The effectiveness of this contract has been confirmed by the Indonesian Ministry of Defense:

Indonesian Rafale Combat Aircraft Increases by 18

With the effectiveness of the second phase of the Rafale fighter contract, it means that the manufacturing process for 18 Rafales will begin in about two weeks.

www.kompas.id

 

[Deino]

Well ... this would be intersting!

A potential first-of-its-kind fighter-jet purchase could be a sign Saudi Arabia isn't happy with what it's getting from the US

The easiest move would be to buy more jets from the US, but recent events may have led Riyadh to have doubts about its longtime patron.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[snne]

Well ... this would be intersting!

A potential first-of-its-kind fighter-jet purchase could be a sign Saudi Arabia isn't happy with what it's getting from the US

The easiest move would be to buy more jets from the US, but recent events may have led Riyadh to have doubts about its longtime patron.

www.businessinsider.com

Just think about it, Typhoons AND Rafales!

 

[TomcatViP]

And Eagles

 

[TomcatViP]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697240159958552890

View: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1697240159958552890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1697240159958552890%7Ctwgr%5E831b48e9a5a974d98659685dfa5914a270210888%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lindependant.fr%2F2023%2F08%2F31%2Fguerre-en-ukraine-apres-les-f-16-kyiv-souhaite-renforcer-son-aviation-de-combat-grace-a-la-france-et-son-modele-rafale-11424573.php

Obviously, a bit of adjustment is needed

 

[Deltafan]

First Croatian Air Force Rafale B flying

First Croatian Air Force Rafale B flying On 14 September 2023, the first Hrvatsko Ratno Zrakoplovsto (Croatian Air Force) Dassault Rafale B was photographed while landing at Base a...

www.scramble.nl

 

[H_K]

To add to the above, the 2 Croatian two-seaters are former B315 and B318, delivered in late 2006, so have been flying for 17 years.

(Approx. 3,000-4,000 flight hours)

 

[helmutkohl]

First Croatian Air Force Rafale B flying

First Croatian Air Force Rafale B flying On 14 September 2023, the first Hrvatsko Ratno Zrakoplovsto (Croatian Air Force) Dassault Rafale B was photographed while landing at Base a...

www.scramble.nl

im glad the Croatian version looks slightly less boring (almost all the other Rafales except Qatar, more or less look the same as the French)
by having that fin flash

 

[Archibald]

Alas. Colorfoul paint schemes belongs to the past, except of course for special ocasions - and airshows.

 

[TomcatViP]

Now, brace for the gorgeous photo shoot along Croatian shore line...

 

[TomcatViP]

Crash report from the 2022 collision b/w 2 Rafale at an Airshow in France (both a/c managed RTB). Nobody was hurt (to my humble knowledge).

Nothing much to see past post crash pictures (already in this thread) but give some insight of AdlAE readiness level and procedures.

Rafale wings are sturby like hell. Basically they are made of a M2K wing structure leafed with composite skins.

 

[TomcatViP]

Rafale tail nbr 170 is the first delivered to Croatian Air Force:

Croatia receives first Rafale fighter from France

Croatia received the first of 12 Dassault Rafale combat aircraft from France on 2 October, the Croatian Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced.

www.janes.com

Remark that we still don´t know how many AESA are part of the deal.

 

[H_K]

Remark that we still don´t know how many AESA are part of the deal.

I’d be very surprised if they got any AESAs given the price they paid (€1B all in for 12 jets including simulators, ground equipment, initial training and spares).

Probably will also be delivered with older DDM missile warning receivers and OSF TV/IR sensors… or nothing at all. The first 2-seater is still carrying dummies for those equipments so too early to tell for sure.

Full gallery available here: https://www.morh.hr/ovo-je-prvi-hrvatski-rafale-povijesni-broj-170/

 

[helmutkohl]

nice! i like what they did with the tail

i remember seeing this Croatian Rafale "whatif" model from a decade and a half ago.
who would have thought it would come to reality, minus the tail

 

[stealthflanker]

I’d be very surprised if they got any AESAs given the price they paid (€1B all in for 12 jets including simulators, ground equipment, initial training and spares).

Daym so they could get a baseline RBE-2 PESA with Radant lens. Not a bad nose.. it's just bit on limited side.

 

[F-2]

Daym so they could get a baseline RBE-2 PESA with Radant lens. Not a bad nose.. it's just bit on limited side.

I think that would make them the only other RBE2 PESA operator correct?

 

[TomcatViP]

Why French AF and Navy hpave only 20 something AESA shared among their fleet via a bolt-on kit. It means that the vast majority of the fleet is PESA.

 

[F-2]

Why French AF and Navy hpave only 20 something AESA shared among their fleet via a bolt-on kit. It means that the vast majority of the fleet is PESA.

Yes but I think all the other export customers are AESA. I apologize if I wasn’t clear.

 

[stealthflanker]

Some product of things. I modeled some Rafale RCS in several configurations. namely Clean, A2A, A2G, Deep Strike with Scalp and Anti ship with single centerline Exocet.

Clean	BVR Oriented 8x Meteor	Air to Ground with Hammer	Anti Ship	Deep Strike with Scalp

They're all modeled inlet lined with absorber and assumed to have bandpass radome which means they will be mostly opaque to hostile radar. The purpose is to see how External payload affect RCS. Hopefully also allow a better modeling of radar range or engagement. As one probably cant just always use clean aircraft RCS for modeling.

I hosted some of the result in my YT channel but, not all configurations modeled above have vids. This example depicts the Scalp and Antiship configuration.

Scalp

Exocet

As for the numerical result.. the following graphics are hopefully clear.



It's kinda interesting to see how different loadout affect RCS.

 

[stealthflanker]

Well this is from Alman Helvas's channel. Apparently the funding for the last 18 of Rafale from the planned 42 has been agreed.

Sorry for YT shorts. probably it would be on La Tribune or other written media tomorrow.

Rafale procurement is thus become our biggest fighter jet procurement since Hawk (40 Aircrafts).

 

[helmutkohl]

Well this is from Alman Helvas's channel. Apparently the funding for the last 18 of Rafale from the planned 42 has been agreed.

Sorry for YT shorts. probably it would be on La Tribune or other written media tomorrow.

Rafale procurement is thus become our biggest fighter jet procurement since Hawk (40 Aircrafts).

im very curious to what kind of weapons it will come with.
it seemed like with the past Flanker deals, there was not much that came with it.

but looking forward to Indonesian Rafales, F-15s and KF-21s

 

[stealthflanker]

im very curious to what kind of weapons it will come with.

IF our past procurement is any indication, weapons are in separate deals. The first 6 Rafale will come without weapons. Ridiculous but that's how retarded our procurement can be.

 

[TomcatViP]

Probably that Dassault should reshape that refueling boom more like a spear.