D
Deleted member 4286
Guest
No, it is movie based on comic books from 60's and 70's
Dassault Mirage 2000
- Thread starter Triton
- Start date
Deltafan
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 8 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,674
- Reaction score
- 2,161
Possibly the first official M2K aerial kill scored against a Houti drone. M2K-5 could have been operating from Djibouti.
www.aerobuzz.fr
Mirage 2000-5 français contre drones Houthis en Mer Rouge - Aerobuzz
Des avions de combat français sont intervenus dans l’interception de drones Houthis en Mer Rouge. On évoque à ce propos une première victoire aérienne officielle de l’armée de l’air et de l’espace depuis… 1945. L’affrontement entre rebelles Houthis soutenus par Téhéran et puissances occidentales...
www.aerobuzz.fr
I've checked the last official French air to air victory. Was on April 24, 1945 when Henri Suisse flying a Spitfire shot down a Me-109.
Of course in September 1987 a lybian Tu-22 ate a Hawk missile near N'Djamena, Tchad. Mirage F1s almost did the job but were told to give it up. And so an Army missile got the kill, instead of an AdA pilot.
Of course in September 1987 a lybian Tu-22 ate a Hawk missile near N'Djamena, Tchad. Mirage F1s almost did the job but were told to give it up. And so an Army missile got the kill, instead of an AdA pilot.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 4286
Guest
MIRAGE 2000-5 fighter aircraft model by DASSAULT AVIATIO… | Drouot.com
MIRAGE 2000-5 fighter aircraft model by DASSAULT AVIATION on base Scale: 1/48 Height: approx. 22 cm - Length: approx. 30 cm
Forest Green
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 11 June 2019
- Messages
- 8,208
- Reaction score
- 13,878
Greece Plans To Sell F-16s, Mirages To Rationalize Its Fighter Inventory
Greece is set to sell off some of its F-16s and Mirage 2000s as it plans to reduce its diverse combat aircraft fleet.
www.twz.com
Just the usual TWZ fail… as post #243 indicates the EGM/BGMs were retired in early 2022 and have already been offered for sale (for parts) as they are no longer flyable.
Air Force looking to sell 18 Mirage fighters | eKathimerini.com
The Hellenic Air Force General Staff is looking for a buyer willing to take 18 of its 4th generation Dassault Mirage 2000EGM/BGM multi-role fighters, which served until 2022.
- Joined
- 3 January 2006
- Messages
- 1,118
- Reaction score
- 740
It occurs to me that India is a good paying customer and has a large Mirage 2000 fleet of similar vintage. As I recollect, their Mirages are almost entirely strike oriented.
In any case, France really needs to cultivate good relations with their paying customer base. The Rafale has been a fabulous export success in recent year, thanks to its serviceability and France’s ability to sell to fairly neutral countries like India. From what I can see, India might be up for very significant three digit Rafale order totals in coming years if Macron supports Dassault. Helping to maintain the numbers of Mirage 2000 fleet can only help build good will and overcome reluctance for further Rafale orders. India is literally the future for defense export sales.
Last edited:
-The upgraded Mirage 2000 saga started with Taiwan, in 1992.
-Then the Armée de l'Air upgraded 37 Mirages to the same standard from 1997 [as stopgap PESA - MICA interceptors waiting for the Rafale F2s - which arrived in 2004].
Besides these two, only Greece and two Gulf states (UAE and Qatar) bought upgraded Mirage 2000s. Red spots in the picture below.
All the others - Peru, India, Egypt - had bought first generation 2000s, in the 1980's. As for Brazil, it got second-hand Mirage 2000C from AdA stocks. Hopeful foot-in-the-door for Rafales... except Gripen decided otherwise. Drats.
Now, since neither Taiwan nor France can afford to dump their 2000-5s... because China threat and lack of Rafales...
... thus, on paper at least, the number of upgraded Mirage 2000s that could be delivered second hand to Ukraine someday should be
- Greece: 25 airframes
- UAE: 31 airframes
- Qatar: 12 airframes
So, 68 Mirages ? Without counting attrition, obviously. Probably drop the number to 50- something.
-Now, I have no idea whether Indonesia got any of the above aircraft...
-While the Greek ones were not for sale until now, the UAE and Qatar Mirages have a long and rich saga of "almost sold !" to many countries: Iraq, Marocco, and of course Indonesia.
-Then the Armée de l'Air upgraded 37 Mirages to the same standard from 1997 [as stopgap PESA - MICA interceptors waiting for the Rafale F2s - which arrived in 2004].
Besides these two, only Greece and two Gulf states (UAE and Qatar) bought upgraded Mirage 2000s. Red spots in the picture below.
All the others - Peru, India, Egypt - had bought first generation 2000s, in the 1980's. As for Brazil, it got second-hand Mirage 2000C from AdA stocks. Hopeful foot-in-the-door for Rafales... except Gripen decided otherwise. Drats.
Now, since neither Taiwan nor France can afford to dump their 2000-5s... because China threat and lack of Rafales...
... thus, on paper at least, the number of upgraded Mirage 2000s that could be delivered second hand to Ukraine someday should be
- Greece: 25 airframes
- UAE: 31 airframes
- Qatar: 12 airframes
So, 68 Mirages ? Without counting attrition, obviously. Probably drop the number to 50- something.
-Now, I have no idea whether Indonesia got any of the above aircraft...
-While the Greek ones were not for sale until now, the UAE and Qatar Mirages have a long and rich saga of "almost sold !" to many countries: Iraq, Marocco, and of course Indonesia.
I had never quite realized that, after Taiwan and the AdA 2000-5F upgrade (let's say, 1992-1997: 54 and 37) Dassault over the next decade only landed three additional contracts: to Qatar, to the UAE, and to Greece.
No surprise that by 2007 after the last Greek deliveries they stopped the Mirage production line and put all their energy on Rafale sales. Which failed every time: until Egypt early 2015 (god bless them !).
And things got even worse when the 2008 crisis sunk Falcon bizjet deliveries... probably another nail in the Mirage coffin.
No surprise that by 2007 after the last Greek deliveries they stopped the Mirage production line and put all their energy on Rafale sales. Which failed every time: until Egypt early 2015 (god bless them !).
And things got even worse when the 2008 crisis sunk Falcon bizjet deliveries... probably another nail in the Mirage coffin.
- Joined
- 3 January 2006
- Messages
- 1,118
- Reaction score
- 740
At this point, it seems that the Indonesians purchase of the Qatar airframes died last month.
The last transfer of used French Mirage 2000s was two dozen retired airframes back to India in 2021, of which more than half were apparently inducted and the rest broken up for spares. I could see the Indians taking every available airframe as a politically acceptable short term alternative to “Make in India.” Taiwan is politically tricky, but with the recent and (extremely public) $329 million support contract until December 2028, it’s clear that they are keeping the Mirage 2000 in service for quite a while more and could soak up any available low hour 2000-5 or 2000-9 airframes. The Taiwan fleet has seen a lot of flight hours and the climate is far more adverse than Greece or the Persian Gulf.
On the other hand, giving away fighter planes is an expensive exercise because you also have to pay for the support of said fighters. Honestly, I’m not sure Argentina will be able to support 24 F-16s without substantial ongoing financial assistance. And believe it not, keeping China defense contractors out of South America is now a higher foreign policy priority than a certain ongoing conflict.
An unspoken factor is the inevitability of attrition in a war zone….. and the negative effect of combat losses on the marketability of a fighter or an entire manufacturer. The MiG-29 got an undeservedly bad reputation despite being a contemporary of the Su-27. Why? The MiG was more widely exported early on and there were highly visible combat losses, inevitably through no fault of the MiG OKB itself. Obviously, the Mirage brand hasn’t been marketed since the end of 2000-5/9 production, but the loss of any Dassault type will undermine the current marketing of the Rafale. This is also why providing Rafales to the suggested combatant is commercial suicide for Dassault. Attrition is inevitable in a war. And it always looks bad.
Honestly, the F-16 and F-15 benefited from their reputation for invincibility in Israeli hands. You think of the sheer luck (not to mention superior mission planning, piloting and maintainence) that not a single one was lost in the Osirak raid, or over Lebanon in 1982 or on the long distance F-15 raid on the PLO in Tunisia. Honestly, the American funding of the fighters for Israel was paid back many times over in increased export sales. Looking further back, the Mirage’s reputation was largely built on the 1967 War.
Last edited:
Forest Green
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 11 June 2019
- Messages
- 8,208
- Reaction score
- 13,878
Warning, low altitude...
Wut ?
Forest Green
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 11 June 2019
- Messages
- 8,208
- Reaction score
- 13,878
The kill the EF-111A got on a Mirage F-1.
- Joined
- 19 July 2016
- Messages
- 4,044
- Reaction score
- 3,086
The EF-111 Raven Managed to Take Down an Iraqi Mirage… Without Ever Firing a Shot
Rewind to the early hours of January 17th, 1991, in dark Middle Eastern skies. You’re flying in a two-seater General Dynamics EF-111 Raven, a heavily modified F-111 Aardvark strike swing-wing bombe…
tacairnet.com
Scott Kenny
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 15 May 2023
- Messages
- 9,155
- Reaction score
- 10,187
Yeah, but they also got steamrolled by the worlds best, trained for years to break the Soviet tactics, and flying lots of hours doing so.
Can't help that.
Reported rumors in Greek press of an oncoming transfer of M2K to Kiev (aside of their F-16 Bk30):
www.newsweek.com
Ukraine eyes unexpected F-16 boost from European ally
Greece is working through a major overhaul of its military, including its fighter jet fleet, and Ukraine may be set to benefit.
www.newsweek.com
Nope. They are antiquated first-gen Mirage 2000s from the 1980's. The ones unmodernized to -5 standard, it means they are still running on RDI and Super 530D. Provided of course the Greeks didn't retire their Super 530D, leaving the Mirage toothless... as did France after 2012 until the last RDIs were retired a decade later.
By the way it has been somewhat very convincingly demonstrated that the Ukrainians don't need Exocets to thoroughly devaste the Russian Black Sea Fleet...
By the way it has been somewhat very convincingly demonstrated that the Ukrainians don't need Exocets to thoroughly devaste the Russian Black Sea Fleet...
F-2
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 22 May 2020
- Messages
- 798
- Reaction score
- 1,517
I think only RDM Mirage carry Exocet?Nope. They are antiquated first-gen Mirage 2000s from the 1980's. The ones unmodernized to -5 standard, it means they are still running on RDI and Super 530D. Provided of course the Greeks didn't retire their Super 530D, leaving the Mirage toothless... as did France after 2012 until the last RDIs were retired a decade later.
By the way it has been somewhat very convincingly demonstrated that the Ukrainians don't need Exocets to thoroughly devaste the Russian Black Sea Fleet...
Not much of a difference except even older and less capable. RDM = Radar De Merde, also known as Tefal: a famous brand of frying pans. Why ? because the radar heat a lot, but doesn't stick - to a target.
This was French pilots very own "Blue Circle" radar joke. I can only imagine the day Dijon air base RDM Mirage 2000s trained with the ballasted Tornado F2s. Tefal versus blue circle - cement interceptors versus frying pan fighters...
This was French pilots very own "Blue Circle" radar joke. I can only imagine the day Dijon air base RDM Mirage 2000s trained with the ballasted Tornado F2s. Tefal versus blue circle - cement interceptors versus frying pan fighters...
Last edited:
The 12 Qatari Mirages 2000-5, having been replaced by Eurofighters, are also for sale, and so are the 62 Emirati Mirages 2000-9 as the Rafale is currentlyreplacing them. So, provided someone is ready to cough up the money and Ukraine is capable of adapting another western fighter, I could very well see the Greek, Qatari and Emirati Mirages 2000 ending up in the Ukrainian air force. They would provide a potent replacement for Ukraine's Su-24s (the Qatari RADs would also provide a useful reconnaissance capability) and maybe a squadron of MiG-29s.
France should buy some and use their seamless integration potential to up their fighter jet fleet size at the lowest cost possible. They are in need for their 1rapid/low logistics deployment capability.
See it also globally with the AdlAE having not much around South America and the Pacific. Inevitably, anything severe will see opportunistic attempt to grab lands by locals nations or groups. This is what the large reserve dissolved by the singular Macron bazaar endeavor could have stand for.
Just buy some, station them all around territories and use local resource, industry and reserve to man and sustain them.
See it also globally with the AdlAE having not much around South America and the Pacific. Inevitably, anything severe will see opportunistic attempt to grab lands by locals nations or groups. This is what the large reserve dissolved by the singular Macron bazaar endeavor could have stand for.
Just buy some, station them all around territories and use local resource, industry and reserve to man and sustain them.
- Joined
- 29 November 2010
- Messages
- 1,738
- Reaction score
- 3,388
Those UAE Mirages must have some low hours on them, could be a very good buy for many air forces.
But with Qatar and UAE selling theirs, Peru planning to retire theirs in 2025, Greece also beginning to retire theirs..
Who do you think will continue to operate them past 2030?
France with just the 2000N and Ds? India? Egypt?
It depends on many factors, but primarily on the availability of spares. The M53 engine is now long out of production and spares for it might start running low early next decade, so unless a re-engining effort is performed, there might not be much more than a decade remaining for the M2K. Similarly its analog fly-by-wire is dated and might run out of spares. Also, even the RDY-2 radar of the latest -5 Mk. 2 and -9 is mechanically scanned and starting to be rather outdated. However, as Rafale's radar has been continuously tested on a slightly modified M2KB testbed, an upgrade to an AESA and then even the integration of Meteor might be feasible. In any case, Taiwan seems to have decided to upgrade their M2K-5 fleet and retain it for at least some years. France's M2K-5F fleet will linger at least to the later half of this decade due to slow Rafale acquisition and the recently upgraded D's might endure well into the 2030's. India's and Egypt's Mirages 2000 are very old airframes so might not have much time left. If Ukraine is provided with M2K, they will serve until the end of the war and some time thereafter, but afterwards I expect major changes to the Ukrainian air force sometime after peace (neither the Soviet aircraft, F-16 A/B MLUs nor M2K's will last much more simply due to airframe life) with consolidation on one American (nearly certainly F-16V) and one European (Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen are all possibilities) type.
Service life is not really important in this conflict. What would prevail is availability. Something rugged as the M2K, but in some aspect, modern would reach that goal.
Easier to maintain for Kiev than an hypothetical F-16V.
Then there is the ammo pack: naval, A2A, A2G and recon. All at once. Everything Ukraine needs.
Remember also that a punctured aluminum skinned delta wing flies as well as a brand new one (just add a bit of gas and alpha) and requires only basic workmanship to be returned to combat. What would Kiev do with their F-16 composite skinned wings? Not an easy patch.
Also, a clean Mirage without a functionnal landing gear lands as well without. An F-16 deprived of a functionnal landing gear is in all probability one lost.
Yes, the M2K is not shinny new, but it can engage on its own term and do good. Adding Meteor would also bring them easily to parity with what Russian has best.
I am not saying that Kiev would do better with Mirage. On the contrary. The F-16/AMRAAM combo is what they need best. But having also the Mirage in their arsenal would give them an easier initiative on the offense with a bit of more margin in risk taking.
Easier to maintain for Kiev than an hypothetical F-16V.
Then there is the ammo pack: naval, A2A, A2G and recon. All at once. Everything Ukraine needs.
Remember also that a punctured aluminum skinned delta wing flies as well as a brand new one (just add a bit of gas and alpha) and requires only basic workmanship to be returned to combat. What would Kiev do with their F-16 composite skinned wings? Not an easy patch.
Also, a clean Mirage without a functionnal landing gear lands as well without. An F-16 deprived of a functionnal landing gear is in all probability one lost.
Yes, the M2K is not shinny new, but it can engage on its own term and do good. Adding Meteor would also bring them easily to parity with what Russian has best.
I am not saying that Kiev would do better with Mirage. On the contrary. The F-16/AMRAAM combo is what they need best. But having also the Mirage in their arsenal would give them an easier initiative on the offense with a bit of more margin in risk taking.
Last edited:
Scott Kenny
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 15 May 2023
- Messages
- 9,155
- Reaction score
- 10,187
I'm not seeing Gripen in that list. It's expensive to buy up front and isn't notably greater performance than the F16V. Also, if you went with the F16Vs as the high part of the split, there aren't enough Gripens around to fill out the numbers that the low split is supposed to bring.
I'd expect UkrAF to do a high/low split with either Eurofighter or Rafale as the high end and F16V as the low.
Ukraine will probably get F-35 at the end of hostilities. There is nothing safer than having 50 Ukrainian owned F-35 to tune down Moscow velleities for the next 10 to 20 years. With NATO membership granted, why would they get F-16 only?
Taiwan can't get F-35 because of the invasion, with the risk of the technology falling in the hands of China, and to keep the statu-quo open. Not the same here.
Taiwan can't get F-35 because of the invasion, with the risk of the technology falling in the hands of China, and to keep the statu-quo open. Not the same here.
Last edited:
France Finally Agrees to Transfer 30 Mirage 2000 Fighter Jets from UAE to Morocco | Defense News April 2024 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2024 | Archive News year
France Finally Agrees to Transfer 30 Mirage 2000 Fighter Jets from UAE to Morocco
Forest Green
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
- Joined
- 11 June 2019
- Messages
- 8,208
- Reaction score
- 13,878
Legit??
liveuamap.com
View: https://x.com/lavoixdunord/status/1798783400611844473
Guess so:
www.france24.com
France will take a new step in aid to Ukraine. "We are going to launch new aid to Ukraine and announce the sale of Mirage 2000 to Ukraine," -announces Emmanuel Macron Caen - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
France will take a new step in aid to Ukraine. "We are going to launch new aid to Ukraine and announce the sale of Mirage 2000 to Ukraine," -announces Emmanuel Macron. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting...
liveuamap.com
View: https://x.com/lavoixdunord/status/1798783400611844473
Guess so:
Macron to supply Ukraine with Mirage 2000-5 warplanes and train fighter pilots in France
French President Emmanuel Macron, in interview with French TV stations on Thursday, said France planned to sell Mirage 2000 warplanes to Ukraine. The Mirage 2000 is a French multi-role, single-engine,…
www.france24.com
Ben voilà...
M2K-5 will do great. Hope that Meteor are part of this.
www.aerotime.aero
M2K-5 will do great. Hope that Meteor are part of this.
France announces transfer of Mirage 2000 fighters to Ukraine
Amid the D-Day commemorative ceremonies, French President Macron confirmed the transfer of Mirage 2000-5 fighter jets to Ukraine to help the country defend its airspace against Russia's invasion.
www.aerotime.aero
Last edited:
F.L.
ACCESS: Top Secret
France's defense will lose a valuable asset. Living without a Mirage in the sky is no longer France.
Living without a Mirage in the sky is no longer France.French media are talking about 12 Mirage 2000-5F, with pilot training complete by the end of the year. Macron also mentioned working in partnership with other Mirage users to determine the final number… presumably Qatar or Greece.
Clearly this is a response to the F-16 pilot training bottlenecks and disappointing level of support from F-16 nations.
@F.L. There will still be a dozen Mirage 2000-5Fs in France for a few more years, plus 48 Mirage 2000Ds and a handful of remaining 2000Bs.
Clearly this is a response to the F-16 pilot training bottlenecks and disappointing level of support from F-16 nations.
@F.L. There will still be a dozen Mirage 2000-5Fs in France for a few more years, plus 48 Mirage 2000Ds and a handful of remaining 2000Bs.
Enfin! So, as far as I know, Ukrainian pilots have been undergoing jet training on Alpha Jets in Cazaux for quite some time now and are about to move to type training. Apparently, they were originally intended to transition to type training for the F-16 in Belgium, but I assume that they are now to proceed to Luxeuil for type training on the M2K which normally takes about six months, so if the training of mechanics and base personnel is started immediately, we might see the first Mirages in Ukraine in about half a year's time. I find it highly likely, that the 12 retired Qatari M2K-5s have now found a purchaser. It is also likely that some of the French M2K-5Fs will be gradually provided to Ukraine, and I would be surprised, if the 24 Greek M2K-5-IIs are not bought for/by Ukraine. Some M2KDs and even the UAE M2K9s might not be completely out of the question (the latter assuming the Moroccans are given a good deal for purchasing Rafales instead and the Emirates allow re-export to Ukraine). The greatest bottleneck might be lack of engines as the SNECMA M53 has been out of production for over a decade and a half.
Similar threads
-
-
Société des Avions Marcel Bloch MB.480 Combat Scout Seaplane prototypes......- Started by Caravellarella
- Replies: 5
-
-
-