Dassault Mirage 2000

[yasotay]

If true, nice pics !

While I cannot say anything about the St. George artwork picture. There is the wonderful Corinth Canal in Greece. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinth_Canal) it is pretty straight, and that is a Greek M2000.

 

[F.L.]

If true, nice pics !

While I cannot say anything about the St. George artwork picture. There is the wonderful Corinth Canal in Greece. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinth_Canal) it is pretty straight, and that is a Greek M2000.

It is true that it looks a lot like the Corinth Canal ! Here are two pictures to compare.

 

[F.L.]

Found that :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1304464380088725504

View: https://twitter.com/world/status/1304464380088725504

 

[F.L.]

This is not impossible either ! but in M2000...

Flying through the Corinth Canal | WordlessTech

Red Bull Air Race competitor Peter Besenyei, one of the most talented pilots in the world, recently flew through the Corinth Canal, Greece, in his aerobatics plane. Watch the video… The aircraft…

wordlesstech.com

 

[F.L.]

Does the Mirage 2000-5 retain the ability to use the Super 530 ?

 

[Deltafan]

Does the Mirage 2000-5 retain the ability to use the Super 530 ?

Yes, as it can use all the missiles used by the Mirage 2000-C.

 

[aonestudio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613452328832757760

View: https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1613452328832757760

 

[Deltafan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611396795749244934

View: https://twitter.com/warnesyworld/status/1611396795749244934?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1611396795749244934%7Ctwgr%5E7591c18def5040c4d7ec54d33c3f3f7761739f90%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.air-defense.net%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fwarnesyworld%2Fstatus%2F1611396795749244934


@stealthflanker : could you confirm ?

 

[Archibald]

Better for the Mirage 2000 to lose sales, than the Rafale. Since 2007, we no longer care about the 2000... and since 2015, all hail Egypt, the real deal is the Rafale.

 

[TomcatViP]

So why not sell Rafale to Taiwan?

 

[Maro.Kyo]

So why not sell Rafale to Taiwan?

Because a, China and b, the Taiwanese seems way less interested in French weapons systems.

 

[TomcatViP]

They look pretty satisfied with their 2K. After so much years at a sustained activity level, we would have heard their dissatisfaction at a louder level. To my knowledge, France has never offered them Rafale when there is a potential of 50 airframe to sell.

 

[GTX]

They look pretty satisfied with their 2K. After so much years at a sustained activity level, we would have heard their dissatisfaction at a louder level. To my knowledge, France has never offered them Rafale when there is a potential of 50 airframe to sell.

I have heard they have had supportability problems. See below for example:

Mirage jets a strain on budget, need replacing - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

 

[Deltafan]

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dassault-rafale-news-only.17813/post-413461

I just edited ($ 223 million ==> € 227 million)

 

[Topi]

Better for the Mirage 2000 to lose sales, than the Rafale. Since 2007, we no longer care about the 2000... and since 2015, all hail Egypt, the real deal is the Rafale.

I think I know a certain Eastern European country which would be more than happy to purchase these Mirage 2000-5s given that funds be available...

 

[Archibald]

They look pretty satisfied with their 2K. After so much years at a sustained activity level, we would have heard their dissatisfaction at a louder level. To my knowledge, France has never offered them Rafale when there is a potential of 50 airframe to sell.

I have heard they have had supportability problems. See below for example:

Mirage jets a strain on budget, need replacing - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

Circa 2009 the ROCAF Mirage fleet was in severe hardships. They had serious maintenance issues and it was considered dumping them ASAP. Wikipedia has a brief summary and links to some secondary sources.

Dassault Mirage 2000 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Mirages survived 2009 nonetheless and are still there, although the issues are returning - now that the fleet is nearing the end of its useful life. But 1997 (first squadron) to 2009 was merely 12 years.

Taiwan has three major issues unrelated to the well known Mirage 2000 pros & cons

- their military had many "ups" and "downs" related to corruption and the youth being no longer motivated to fight the PRC giant ogre

- being an island Taiwan is kind of giant carrier so the climate for fighters is more akin to "saltwater corrosion" as in "Super Etendard"... the Mirage 2000 is not a naval aircraft. Seems some USAF aircraft in Okinawa often had similar issues.

- Taiwan 2000 fleet is a standalone (if not an oddity) amid largely US systems. What makes the problem worse is that any major repair or upgrade in France seemingly cost ROCAF an eye-watering amount of money. Dassault there ain't cheap by any mean. Plus the 1992 contract was won in an extremely controversial way - lot of corruption and people ending dead or in jail. A very ugly business not unlike the F-104 horror of the 1970's.

That's my understanding of ROCAF Mirage hardships, at least.

 

[TomcatViP]

Absolutely but that doesn't mean their Mirage didn't meet their expectations, as a fighter interceptor.
Corruption and political will are not engineering variables.

 

[stealthflanker]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611396795749244934

View: https://twitter.com/warnesyworld/status/1611396795749244934?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1611396795749244934%7Ctwgr%5E7591c18def5040c4d7ec54d33c3f3f7761739f90%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.air-defense.net%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fwarnesyworld%2Fstatus%2F1611396795749244934


@stealthflanker : could you confirm ?

Well apparently so. tho nothing official yet.

The Mirage purchase was rather political as it's related to our plan of new capital. This megaproject requires investors which includes UAE and Qatar. The Mirages will come from either of them, the purchase is a kind of sign of "political good gesture" so those Gulf states will invest in our new capital.

 

[Deltafan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611396795749244934

View: https://twitter.com/warnesyworld/status/1611396795749244934?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1611396795749244934%7Ctwgr%5E7591c18def5040c4d7ec54d33c3f3f7761739f90%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.air-defense.net%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fwarnesyworld%2Fstatus%2F1611396795749244934


@stealthflanker : could you confirm ?

Well apparently so. tho nothing official yet.

The Mirage purchase was rather political as it's related to our plan of new capital. This megaproject requires investors which includes UAE and Qatar. The Mirages will come from either of them, the purchase is a kind of sign of "political good gesture" so those Gulf states will invest in our new capital.

Thanks for your answer.

But, sorry, my English is not good (or maybe too my question was poorly worded) and I don't understand very well : You confirm the purchase of Mirage or the fact that Dassault will not give the clearance ?

 

[stealthflanker]

But, sorry, my English is not good (or maybe too my question was poorly worded) and I don't understand very well : You confirm the purchase of Mirage or the fact that Dassault will not give the clearance ?

Yes. Dassault and French govt intervened. So the Mirage purchase and transfers is unlikely.

 

[Archibald]

Wait - you mean the UAE or another country tried to dump the 2000-9 Shrodinger / Heisenberg to Indonesia - and the French said "not without our consent" ?

 

[TomcatViP]

Probably that too many French MK2 pilots seating idle while waiting for their Rafale conversion asked for their transfer into the TNI-AU.

 

[H_K]

Probably that too many French MK2 pilots seating idle while waiting for their Rafale conversion asked for their transfer into the TNI-AU.

I’m assuming you’re being tongue in cheek?

The only Mirage 2000 pilots potentially waiting for their Rafale conversion are the 15 instructors from EC 2/5 Île de France, the last M2000C squadron which was disbanded last year. Presumably many of these valued pilots have found homes in one of the 4 remaining Mirage squadrons (3x 2000D + 1x 2000-5, with ~100 pilots total). The rest will now be in the Rafale conversion pipeline - where the availability of experienced pilots could actually be a good thing as it reduces the training burden compared to ab initio pilots who would use up more Rafale hours.

 

[TomcatViP]

Quoting the recent official statement by French air Force's head of Staff, a post that can be found in the Rafale thread:

Faute d’un nombre de Rafale suffisants, des pilotes sur 2000 C n’ont pas pu basculer sur Rafale.
-----------

“For lack of a sufficient number of Rafale, pilots on 2000 C could not switch to Rafale.

More sourcing, less presuming

 

[TomcatViP]

Testimony of an AdlAE M2K pilot that had to punch out In last November while on final:

TEMOIGNAGE RTL - Un pilote de chasse s'éjecte de son Mirage 2000 avant le crash

Entre le moment où la panne se déclare et le moment où il atterrit en parachute sur la terre ferme, il se passe 90 secondes pour le capitaine Julien.

www.rtl.fr

 

[F-2]

Farnborough 2022: Raytheon PhantomStrike radar ready for export by 2025

Raytheon plans to have its PhantomStrike active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar ready for export by 2025.

www.janes.com

AESA for the mirage?

 

[TomcatViP]

France has opened discussion for transferring some M2K for Ukraine. The subject remain highly sensitive and no decision have yet been arrested.

D'après les informations de BFMTV ce vendredi, si l'export de Rafale à destination de l'Ukraine semble d'emblée exclu, les échanges ont bien débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour d'une possible livraison française de Mirage 2000, avions de chasse construits par Dassault, selon un haut-gradé proche de ces échanges. Mais la France se montre pour le moment rétive à l'idée d'accéder à la requête ukrainienne.
--------------------------

According to information from BFMTV this Friday, if the export of Rafale to Ukraine seems ruled out from the outset, discussions were started from some time between kyiv and Paris around a possible French delivery of Mirage 2000, [...] according to a senior officer close to these discussions. But France is for the moment reticent to the idea of acceding to the Ukrainian demand.

Guerre en Ukraine: pourquoi la France hésite à fournir des Mirage 2000 à Kiev

Après les chars et autres blindés, l'Ukraine espère à présent que ses alliés voudront bien l'équiper en avions de chasse, moyens aériens dont elle est dépourvue. Des tractations ont débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour des Mirage 2000 mais la France rechigne à lâcher ses chasseurs.

www.bfmtv.com

 

[F-2]

France has opened discussion for transferring some M2K for Ukraine. The subject remain highly sensitive and no decision have yet been arrested.

D'après les informations de BFMTV ce vendredi, si l'export de Rafale à destination de l'Ukraine semble d'emblée exclu, les échanges ont bien débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour d'une possible livraison française de Mirage 2000, avions de chasse construits par Dassault, selon un haut-gradé proche de ces échanges. Mais la France se montre pour le moment rétive à l'idée d'accéder à la requête ukrainienne.
--------------------------

According to information from BFMTV this Friday, if the export of Rafale to Ukraine seems ruled out from the outset, discussions were started from some time between kyiv and Paris around a possible French delivery of Mirage 2000, [...] according to a senior officer close to these discussions. But France is for the moment reticent to the idea of acceding to the Ukrainian demand.

Guerre en Ukraine: pourquoi la France hésite à fournir des Mirage 2000 à Kiev

Après les chars et autres blindés, l'Ukraine espère à présent que ses alliés voudront bien l'équiper en avions de chasse, moyens aériens dont elle est dépourvue. Des tractations ont débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour des Mirage 2000 mais la France rechigne à lâcher ses chasseurs.

www.bfmtv.com

That would be very good, but don’t they have a very limited supply of M2000-5? The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

 

[TomcatViP]

France has opened discussion for transferring some M2K for Ukraine. The subject remain highly sensitive and no decision have yet been arrested.

D'après les informations de BFMTV ce vendredi, si l'export de Rafale à destination de l'Ukraine semble d'emblée exclu, les échanges ont bien débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour d'une possible livraison française de Mirage 2000, avions de chasse construits par Dassault, selon un haut-gradé proche de ces échanges. Mais la France se montre pour le moment rétive à l'idée d'accéder à la requête ukrainienne.
--------------------------

According to information from BFMTV this Friday, if the export of Rafale to Ukraine seems ruled out from the outset, discussions were started from some time between kyiv and Paris around a possible French delivery of Mirage 2000, [...] according to a senior officer close to these discussions. But France is for the moment reticent to the idea of acceding to the Ukrainian demand.

Guerre en Ukraine: pourquoi la France hésite à fournir des Mirage 2000 à Kiev

Après les chars et autres blindés, l'Ukraine espère à présent que ses alliés voudront bien l'équiper en avions de chasse, moyens aériens dont elle est dépourvue. Des tractations ont débuté entre Kiev et Paris autour des Mirage 2000 mais la France rechigne à lâcher ses chasseurs.

www.bfmtv.com

That would be very good, but don’t they have a very limited supply of M2000-5? The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

You can't give them derelict models.

 

[F.L.]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

 

[Archibald]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

Came as a shock to me too, I guarantee it. Had not realized it. Made the 2000C pretty toothless for sure. But then again, they were third-line only - long behind the 2000-5F and Rafales. Still plenty enough to patrol French airspace and shoot down rogue airliners if the needs ever happened (it didn't).

 

[F.L.]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

Came as a shock to me too, I guarantee it. Had not realized it. Made the 2000C pretty toothless for sure. But then again, they were third-line only - long behind the 2000-5F and Rafales. Still plenty enough to patrol French airspace and shoot down rogue airliners if the needs ever happened (it didn't).

During the last 10 years, did the 2000C retain a ground attack function ?

 

[Archibald]

French 2000-5F are too few and too useful, with Rafale numbers growing way too slowly.

But there are 2000-5/ 5 mk.2 / 9 elsewhere in the world.

Mirage 2000-9
Mirage 2000-9 is the export variant of Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2. The UAE was the launch customer, ordering 32 new-build aircraft, comprising 20 Mirage 2000-9 single-seaters and 12 Mirage 2000-9D two-seaters. A further 30 of Abu Dhabi's older Mirage 2000s will also be upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard.

Those are what I call the Heisenberg / Schrodinger Mirages. They have popped out in Marocco and Iraq and more recently in Indonesia - without ever moving out of the UAE.

The Greek and Taiwanese Mirages are not for sale any time soon - not with angry Turkey and menacing China.

 

[Archibald]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

Came as a shock to me too, I guarantee it. Had not realized it. Made the 2000C pretty toothless for sure. But then again, they were third-line only - long behind the 2000-5F and Rafales. Still plenty enough to patrol French airspace and shoot down rogue airliners if the needs ever happened (it didn't).

During the last 10 years, did the 2000C retain a ground attack function ?

Dumb iron bombs, probably. Was never a strike fighter in the first place...

 

[F.L.]

Le C est passé par leur approvisionnement en 530D il y a une dizaine d'années.

Hein !!! Cela fait dix ans que l'AdA exploite le M2000C uniquement avec le missile Magic !!!

Ça m'a aussi choqué, je le garantis. Ne s'en était pas rendu compte. Rendu le 2000C assez édenté à coup sûr. Mais encore une fois, ils n'étaient que troisième ligne - loin derrière les 2000-5F et les Rafales. Encore assez pour patrouiller dans l'espace aérien français et abattre des avions de ligne voyous en cas de besoin (ce n'est pas le cas).

Au cours des 10 dernières années, le 2000C a-t-il conservé une fonction d'attaque au sol ?

De stupides bombes de fer, probablement. N'a jamais été un combattant de grève en premier lieu...

En réalité, cela faisait dix ans que la France gardait un avion qui lui était "inutile" ?

 

[F-2]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

Came as a shock to me too, I guarantee it. Had not realized it. Made the 2000C pretty toothless for sure. But then again, they were third-line only - long behind the 2000-5F and Rafales. Still plenty enough to patrol French airspace and shoot down rogue airliners if the needs ever happened (it didn't).

During the last 10 years, did the 2000C retain a ground attack function ?

Dumb iron bombs, probably. Was never a strike fighter in the first place...

Actually, it was ten years that France kept an aircraft that was useless to it !

No I wouldn’t say that. They had a ton of old airframes they needed to retire and couldn’t build enough Rafales to replace them. At least the 2000c had a lot in common with the 5 and D.

 

[H_K]

Actually, it was ten years that France kept an aircraft that was useless to it !

No the 2000Cs were used very effectively till the end, including in combat. To recap their many uses:

1) Close air support: 2x 2000Cs were deployed to Mali from 2015-2020. They paired up with Mirage 2000Ds, using GBU-12s, MK 82s and 30mm guns (much like F1CTs were used at the end of their life in Afghanistan)

2) QRA: 2x 2000Cs were always on alert, covering the airspace over all the south of France

3) OCU: All Mirage pilots trained on 2000Cs, learning how to fly supersonic jets, how to do air refueling, bombing etc before going on to specialize in air-to-air or air-to-ground on 2000-5s or 2000Ds

4) Red Air: The 2000Cs were the primary FAF adversary unit… ideal to simulate Mig-29s and Su-27s

 

[TomcatViP]

The C went through their supply of 530D about ten years ago.

Huh !!! It's been ten years that the AdA operates the M2000C only with the Magic missile !!!

Came as a shock to me too, I guarantee it. Had not realized it. Made the 2000C pretty toothless for sure. But then again, they were third-line only - long behind the 2000-5F and Rafales. Still plenty enough to patrol French airspace and shoot down rogue airliners if the needs ever happened (it didn't).

During the last 10 years, did the 2000C retain a ground attack function ?

Dumb iron bombs, probably. Was never a strike fighter in the first place...

The C was as good as the F-16 in the 90's for A2G, according to Air international... And I do believe it.

 

[Manuducati]

If I could make an aside: people tend to forget that before the very late 90's/early 00's and the MLU program, the "deal of the century" F-16s (Netherlands, Belgium, Norway and Denmark) were basically just day fighters with IR missiles, unguided bombs and rockets.
Interestingly, the losing contenders (Mirage F1E and Saab 37 Viggen) had SARH missiles from the beginning.

 

[TomcatViP]

People have forgotten the infamous F-16 battle against SAM over Irak during GW1 where score of ANG F-16s were mission killed after the lack of appropriate ECM.

(Nuclear force French Mirage didn't do much better over Kososo, one being lost from a simple Sa-7)