Current mystery aircraft / urban legends

[Q-nimbus]

I

It was one of two patches associated with Col Joe Lanni

What was the other patch associated with Col Joe Lanni?

I wondered at the time whether the F-117A might be serving the Dark Knights in a similar capacity to that of the A-7s assigned to the earlier 4450th Tactical Group at TTR. Back when the F-117A was still classified, the A-7s provided both a plausible cover story for the existence of the 4450th and a platform for daytime proficiency flying. Those A-7s also served in a variety of unclassified mission support roles including flying chase for cruise missile testing. Now, the F-117A is providing support in a "Red Air" capacity. This is happening in a very visible way, and attracting a great deal of attention. Is it distracting us from something else? I don't have the answers but it is interesting to ponder.

It is a very nice theory, but there is one problem: if they want the F117A to act as a cover for a classified program, it isn’t working. The F117A operations are attracting way to much attention if you want to keep something under wraps.

But then of course there is a lot going on at TTR, and it seems unlikely that all the recent construction works were for the F117A. So something is probably going on there…

Based on the pictures taken from the air about a year ago I would guess that there’s a spooky semi operational drone based at TTR (but probably not the RQ-180 as the hangars are to small for it’s reported wingspan).

Perhaps Quellish has an idea?

 

[Dynoman]

I received a Dark Knights challenge coin from Tonopah Test Range (TTR) in 2014, the one with the current unit emblem.

Is this the same Challenge Coin? Its interesting as this appears to be connected to the F-117A coming out of retirement and working as a 'Red Air' Bandit. From Latin it means "From the Past to the Future" and "License from Domination." If a cover for an existing program I wonder if the shield gives any clues to a configuration. A diamond planform or half of the shield being triangular? An article from the Drive breaks down this coin.

Challenge Coin For The Secretive Unit That Still Flies The F-117 Nighthawk Emerges

While the "Dark Knights" appear to operate the remaining flyable F-117s, very little else is known about the shadowy unit.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Hicks]

I received a Dark Knights challenge coin from Tonopah Test Range (TTR) in 2014, the one with the current unit emblem.

Is this the same Challenge Coin? Its interesting as this appears to be connected to the F-117A coming out of retirement and working as a 'Red Air' Bandit. From Latin it means "From the Past to the Future" and "License from Domination." If a cover for an existing program I wonder if the shield gives any clues to a configuration. A diamond planform or half of the shield being triangular? An article from the Drive breaks down this coin.

Challenge Coin For The Secretive Unit That Still Flies The F-117 Nighthawk Emerges

While the "Dark Knights" appear to operate the remaining flyable F-117s, very little else is known about the shadowy unit.

www.thedrive.com

Shield remind me of this F-117, belly minus wings and flag inverted between head and tail.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Licentia ex dominatus is better translated as "freedom from tyranny". Its also a World of Warcraft clan.

 

[Whisperstream]

I received a Dark Knights challenge coin from Tonopah Test Range (TTR) in 2014, the one with the current unit emblem.

Is this the same Challenge Coin? Its interesting as this appears to be connected to the F-117A coming out of retirement and working as a 'Red Air' Bandit. From Latin it means "From the Past to the Future" and "License from Domination." If a cover for an existing program I wonder if the shield gives any clues to a configuration. A diamond planform or half of the shield being triangular? An article from the Drive breaks down this coin.

Challenge Coin For The Secretive Unit That Still Flies The F-117 Nighthawk Emerges

While the "Dark Knights" appear to operate the remaining flyable F-117s, very little else is known about the shadowy unit.

www.thedrive.com

I have several versions of the coin. The basic design is essentially the same but one is the unnumbered coin as seen above. The first variant I got had a cartouche on the reverse side upon which to stamp a number. The third variant was numbered and also had a pilot's call sign.

The diamond shaped shield is indeed interesting, as is the shape you get if you draw an outline around the group of eight stars on the standard unit emblem. The lightning bolts may be a reference to electronic warfare (EW) systems. I have met a couple of EW specialists who had been given Dark Knights patch. What I find most curious is that the skeletal knight is armed only with a dagger with a 7-inch blade (7.125 inches if you wish to be precise).

 

[In_A_Dream]

I have several versions of the coin. The basic design is essentially the same but one is the unnumbered coin as seen above. The first variant I got had a cartouche on the reverse side upon which to stamp a number. The third variant was numbered and also had a pilot's call sign.

The diamond shaped shield is indeed interesting, as is the shape you get if you draw an outline around the group of eight stars on the standard unit emblem. The lightning bolts may be a reference to electronic warfare (EW) systems. I have met a couple of EW specialists who had been given Dark Knights patch. What I find most curious is that the skeletal knight is armed only with a dagger with a 7-inch blade (7.125 inches if you wish to be precise).

It's possible the Air Force has replaced a legacy EW platform that worked alongside the F-117s with a modern variant and it's stationed out of TTR and they're providing some type of training with them.

 

[Dynoman]

I have met a couple of EW specialists who had been given Dark Knights patch

Were these EW specialist aircrew members or ground based technicians? If members of an aircrew, then obviously the F-117A is single seat, so if they were EW aircrew members then they are flying on a multicrew aircraft (i.e. flight test support aircraft or an EW aircraft).

I've always wondered what the services would do after the EF-111 and EA-6B were retired (retired in 1998 and 2019 respectively). The official line is that the Growler was the Navy's replacement and was being used jointly in Air Force operations, however believing that the Air Force would rely on the Navy for their continual EW needs doesn't sound logical. The cancellation of the EF-111 would fit some of the testing that may have occurred at Groom Lake in the 1990s. Possibly a follow on to Lockheed's Model 100 HAVE KEY (Cold Pigeon), which led to the A-12 Avenger II (a shape similar to the triangle in the Dark Knight shield).

 

[Grey Havoc]

There was a fair bit of work done on 'virtual crew members' during the late 1990s and 2000s though, IIRC.

 

[Whisperstream]

I have met a couple of EW specialists who had been given Dark Knights patch

Were these EW specialist aircrew members or ground based technicians?

As far as I know they were strictly ground-based tech/engineering types. If the Dark Knights are connected to the older program (circa 1992-2002) then that seems likely to involve something other than the F-117A, which was still quite a few years from retirement at the time.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There have been an extraordinary number of black projects flown at Groom Lake and TTR over the past three decades. It's mind boggling that there have been so very few sightings or leaks.

 

[greenmartian2017]

Whisperstream, could you hazard a guess as to quantifying the "extraordinary number" of black projects flown at Groom Lake and TTR?

 

[Whisperstream]

Whisperstream, could you hazard a guess as to quantifying the "extraordinary number" of black projects flown at Groom Lake and TTR?

I couldn't begin to offer any sort of precise number. Years ago someone suggested that there had been "at least seven and as many as 11" black projects flown since the 1980s that had yet to be declassified. That estimate was based on bad data. If anything, it now seems like a low number. These programs remain largely hidden but they cast shadows. Hints can be found in military budgets, financial disclosures from major aerospace contractors, satellite imagery of test sites, movement of commuter shuttles between the test ranges, and the menagerie of spooky program logos and insignia.

 

[Q-nimbus]

A page from a MoD report on UAPs produced in 2000 covering Black Project aircraft that are frequently reported as UAPs. See the attached photo.

The SR-71 Blackbird is in there with a photograph but descriptions of 2 other photo’s and descriptions of aircraft are redacted.

It’s 21 years later. After all these years, does anyone have idea what aircraft the report is referring to?

 

[In_A_Dream]

A page from a MoD report on UAPs produced in 2000 covering Black Project aircraft that are frequently reported as UAPs. See the attached photo.

The SR-71 Blackbird is in there with a photograph but descriptions of 2 other photo’s and descriptions of aircraft are redacted.

It’s 21 years later. After all these years, does anyone have idea what aircraft the report is referring to?
View attachment 670242

Good find.

 

[Nik]

On a lighter note: When is a **** not a **** ??
"I saw on the face of Rock Hill, up which I can now stride with scarcely a deep breath, a strange light. It moved. My eye couldn't make sense of it. I was thinking it was a drone or some sort of robot. A UFO maybe, controlled by micro-sized aliens. But then I saw a man and his dog coming down the path out of shadow and the dog had an LED collar. I have noticed that, all of a sudden, LED lights on dogs are everywhere. Some of the LED collars look pretty good in the dark and obviously contribute considerably to a dog's safety where there are lots of cars."

By Martyn Fogg, on Facebook this week. (Flagged to me as 'By Friend')

FWIW, a long-term BIS member, Martyn literally wrote the book on Terraforming: 'Engineering Planetary Environments'. My now-priceless copy has been packed away for a decade since house move, I should dig it out...

 

[Nik]

"I should dig it out..."
I did. It was in 7th of the 9 hi-racked crates within easy reach.
Also found remarkable number of books I thought I'd given away. And the missing twin to my lonely sash-clamp...

Would have liked the relative orbital inclination of tau Ceti inner system, to resolve the habitable zone's 'f' planet's mass better than Doppler's 'Sin(i)', but I've a good fortnight's reading...

 

[flateric]

A page from a MoD report on UAPs produced in 2000 covering Black Project aircraft that are frequently reported as UAPs. See the attached photo.

The SR-71 Blackbird is in there with a photograph but descriptions of 2 other photo’s and descriptions of aircraft are redacted.

It’s 21 years later. After all these years, does anyone have idea what aircraft the report is referring to?

Let me guess. U-2S

 

[serg.gonzp]

A page from a MoD report on UAPs produced in 2000 covering Black Project aircraft that are frequently reported as UAPs. See the attached photo.

The SR-71 Blackbird is in there with a photograph but descriptions of 2 other photo’s and descriptions of aircraft are redacted.

It’s 21 years later. After all these years, does anyone have idea what aircraft the report is referring to?
View attachment 670242

Maybe some a classified uav project of that time

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

I have met a couple of EW specialists who had been given Dark Knights patch

Were these EW specialist aircrew members or ground based technicians? If members of an aircrew, then obviously the F-117A is single seat, so if they were EW aircrew members then they are flying on a multicrew aircraft (i.e. flight test support aircraft or an EW aircraft).

I've always wondered what the services would do after the EF-111 and EA-6B were retired (retired in 1998 and 2019 respectively). The official line is that the Growler was the Navy's replacement and was being used jointly in Air Force operations, however believing that the Air Force would rely on the Navy for their continual EW needs doesn't sound logical. The cancellation of the EF-111 would fit some of the testing that may have occurred at Groom Lake in the 1990s. Possibly a follow on to Lockheed's Model 100 HAVE KEY (Cold Pigeon), which led to the A-12 Avenger II (a shape similar to the triangle in the Dark Knight shield).

Andreas Parsch notes that HAVE KEY was the codename for the design effort by General Dynamics, part of the design work that led to the canceled A-12A Avenger II. The Cold Pigeon you mentioned was a General Dynamics tech demonstrator, not a Lockheed one, because Lockheed was not involved in the A-12 competition given its preoccupation with the F-117 but also development of the F-22.

 

[RanulfC]

On a lighter note: When is a **** not a **** ??
"I saw on the face of Rock Hill, up which I can now stride with scarcely a deep breath, a strange light. It moved. My eye couldn't make sense of it. I was thinking it was a drone or some sort of robot. A UFO maybe, controlled by micro-sized aliens. But then I saw a man and his dog coming down the path out of shadow and the dog had an LED collar. I have noticed that, all of a sudden, LED lights on dogs are everywhere. Some of the LED collars look pretty good in the dark and obviously contribute considerably to a dog's safety where there are lots of cars."

By Martyn Fogg, on Facebook this week. (Flagged to me as 'By Friend')

FWIW, a long-term BIS member, Martyn literally wrote the book on Terraforming: 'Engineering Planetary Environments'. My now-priceless copy has been packed away for a decade since house move, I should dig it out...

Walked out of my house one early spring morning to get into my car and noted a huge, blazing light on the mountains to the east.... "What the heck...." and then the camper turned the light down to illuminate his tent and I was once again struck by how damn close that mountain actually is...
(And how ludicrously bright some camp lights have gotten )

Randy

 

[RavenOne]

WhaT would be the YF-24? Switchblade swing wing fighter jet?

cheers

 

[RavenOne]

Whisperstream, could you hazard a guess as to quantifying the "extraordinary number" of black projects flown at Groom Lake and TTR?

I couldn't begin to offer any sort of precise number. Years ago someone suggested that there had been "at least seven and as many as 11" black projects flown since the 1980s that had yet to be declassified. That estimate was based on bad data. If anything, it now seems like a low number. These programs remain largely hidden but they cast shadows. Hints can be found in military budgets, financial disclosures from major aerospace contractors, satellite imagery of test sites, movement of commuter shuttles between the test ranges, and the menagerie of spooky program logos and insignia.

Wonder how many projects now theee @? A handful flight testing? Cheers

 

[Nigelhg]

I'm sure a few have already seen this but some decent investigation has revealed a decent copy of the Scottish UAP photograph from the early 90's.

 

[sublight_]

Looks a lot like a secret airship that a lot of SPF members fiercely deny could possibly exist.

 

[Nigelhg]

View: https://youtu.be/IgekUVzMSCc


This gives the more of the story about the investigation

 

[Q-nimbus]

I'm sure a few have already seen this but some decent investigation has revealed a decent copy of the Scottish UAP photograph from the early 90's.

View attachment 682519

Fascinating, and I’m glad after all these years the original picture has been found.

Some interesting background info about this story; https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/

But does anyone have any idea what we’re looking at? I would love to hear everybody’s theories but my initial stance with these kind of things is that it’s fake until proven real. If this picture turns out to really show a classified aircraft, people who are in the know will come forward in the coming weeks.

 

[Nigelhg]

I'm sure a few have already seen this but some decent investigation has revealed a decent copy of the Scottish UAP photograph from the early 90's.

View attachment 682519

Fascinating, and I’m glad after all these years the original picture has been found.

Some interesting background info about this story; https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/

But does anyone have any idea what we’re looking at? I would love to hear everybody’s theories but my initial stance with these kind of things is that it’s fake until proven real. If this picture turns out to really show a classified aircraft, people who are in the know will come forward in the coming weeks.

Given the time frame (early 90's) I would speculate that this is a unknown Lockheed platform given the faceting.

 

[shedofdread]

Look at the shape and work backwards - Unless it's 'lighter than air', and without a significant AoA, that form can't generate lift. So, IF it's an airship of some sort, it would need internal structure to hold that form (too many straight lines) and what purpose would that form serve (answers on postcard to the usual address...)?

So, my guess it's either a fake or 'not of this world' and we all know the latter aren't real, right?

*chuckles*

Edit - after looking at the picture on something with a better screen, it could be something with a diamond planform banked toward the camera but if it is, it's still not a good shape to either control or be required for LO.

 

[Hood]

So the world's best UFO photo was actually taken by an RAF Press Photographer (either retired or then active, David Clarke doesn't say)... rather coincidental is it not?
The MoD UFO desk guy involved had no idea who the two walkers were, even musing they might have been poachers and yet it was actually an RAF Press man who might have had sufficient MoD contacts (even if he was retired) to send them the photos directly but instead sent them to a tabloid newspaper. You would have thought that having served and signed the Official Secrets Act he might have thought twice about that?

Also, the David Clarke implies six colour photos were taken, the photo above looks black and white to me... (even allowing for low light at 9pm on an early August day and low cloud behind the aircraft).

 

[Nigelhg]

So the world's best UFO photo was actually taken by an RAF Press Photographer (either retired or then active, David Clarke doesn't say)... rather coincidental is it not?
The MoD UFO desk guy involved had no idea who the two walkers were, even musing they might have been poachers and yet it was actually an RAF Press man who might have had sufficient MoD contacts (even if he was retired) to send them the photos directly but instead sent them to a tabloid newspaper. You would have thought that having served and signed the Official Secrets Act he might have thought twice about that?

Also, the David Clarke implies six colour photos were taken, the photo above looks black and white to me... (even allowing for low light at 9pm on an early August day and low cloud behind the aircraft).

No- it was taken by one of the 2 chefs- he retained the b best photograph of the 6 that came across his desk. 9pm is still bright in Scotland in August (being that bit farther north and east (from my location in NI) helps. They weren't colour photographs - apparently taken on Ilford xp1 which is a B and W film that requires colour processing.

 

[CJGibson]

XP1 was a chromgenic monochrome film that could be processed and printed in a high street photo lab's shop window colour minlab.

Younger readers won't have a clue what I'm on about.

The results always had a sepia tinge which might explain where the reference to colour comes from.

I used it a lot.

Chris

 

[In_A_Dream]

The object looks to be a stretched diamond, steeply banked towards the camera, with the canopy in white on the center left.

The dark spot in the middle right could be the exhaust port located on center/top of the object.

The aft end (right) looks to be some sort of mechanism to either reduce the exhaust signature through chemical injection (possibly) or provide a means of aeronautical stability.

The escort aircraft appears to be behind the object in this photo rather than next to it.

 

[Hood]

My speculation was that this was an inflatable radar reflector (maybe even a powered inflatable decoy?). A faceted structure with regular light and dark spots.
Certainly ain't no hypersonic doodad being followed by a Harrier chase plane...

 

[seruriermarshal]

How big is an inflatable radar reflector ? They said the UFO is 30 meters long .

 

[Nigelhg]

How big is an inflatable radar reflector ? They said the UFO is 30 meters long .

My speculation was that this was an inflatable radar reflector (maybe even a powered inflatable decoy?). A faceted structure with regular light and dark spots.
Certainly ain't no hypersonic doodad being followed by a Harrier chase plane...

Fwiw- these are actually pretty useless as radar reflectors- much better marine designs exist.

 

[publiusr]

The escort aircraft appears to be behind the object in this photo rather than next to it.

It is more out of focus.

Pasteboard rocket…something tossed in the air and the best pic’ kept.

I took a photo of two pie tins glued together…with a silver Leggs egg on top. Most photos showed exactly that…but one caught the sun just right and looked great…though my friend’s mom thought it was a hubcap

 

[aliensporebomb]

Calvine is a strange duck. If it was fake why did the MOD put a D notice on it? There were other odd things about it too. The story about some british defense attache to the states called on the carpet because they felt the UK "created their own". As in "how dare you copy our technology". Huh?

 

[Q-nimbus]

Calvine is a strange duck. If it was fake why did the MOD put a D notice on it? There were other odd things about it too. The story about some british defense attache to the states called on the carpet because they felt the UK "created their own". As in "how dare you copy our technology". Huh?

There’s is absolutely no evidence that a D-notice was issued for the Calvine incident. Some people came to that conclusion based solely on the fact that the Scottish newspaper that first recieved the photo’s didn’t publish them, although they did send them to the RAF (probably because they believed something was on those pictures that wasn’t supposed to be seen.

Anyway, Christmas is coming up and I think we’re looking at a Christmas ornament from the side:



I also believe that’s the reason why the photographers haven’t come forward after 30 years: because it’s a hoax.

 

[Ravinoff]

My speculation was that this was an inflatable radar reflector (maybe even a powered inflatable decoy?). A faceted structure with regular light and dark spots.
Certainly ain't no hypersonic doodad being followed by a Harrier chase plane...

Regarding the chase plane, I'm seeing a BAE Hawk more than a Harrier. Which seems like a more reasonable chase plane if you're observing some kind of classified tech demonstrator.

 

[CJGibson]

Regarding the chase plane, I'm seeing a BAE Hawk more than a Harrier. Which seems like a more reasonable chase plane if you're observing some kind of classified tech demonstrator.

Would you like to buy an aircraft recognition book? It's more like a Hunter T7.

Chris

 

[Hood]

Regarding the chase plane, I'm seeing a BAE Hawk more than a Harrier. Which seems like a more reasonable chase plane if you're observing some kind of classified tech demonstrator.

It could be a Hawk.
It could be a Hunter.

I'd back a Hunter as the RAE definitely used them, I don't think they had any Hawk chase planes.
Of course, it could be BAe doing its own testing with one of its own company-owned Hawks/Hunters as chase planes. It could just be a hoax. We could guess at a number of scenarios.