Current mystery aircraft / urban legends

[CJGibson]

Hunters at Lossiemouth, around 70 miles north of Calvine. Looks like a Hunter.

Chris

 

[Dynoman]

There are a couple new (to me) designations that I am unfamiliar with. According to Col. Dan Javorsek's official biography, he test flew the YF-220 and the X-273.

Since he completed USAF Test Pilot School in 2008 he flew as an F-16 and F-22 test pilot instructor until August 2011. His assignments following this were 'masked' until 2018.

Could the YF-220 or X-273 be affiliated with an Su-27 variant or the PCA fighter prototype/experimental aircraft or simply some other unknown aircraft? Has anyone else come across these two designations?

https://www.afotec.af.mil/Portals/69/Det-6-CC-Bio-Javorsek-Mar21.pdf

 

[Q-nimbus]

What a great find Dynoman! Let the hunt begin…

A few observations and questions:

There is a ‘Form 8’ mentioned. I understand a Form 8 is the USAF official piece of paper where your checkride/flight evaluation is annotated. Does this tell us anything about the kind of aircraft he flew? Would an experimental or captured foreign aircraft require these check rides for example?

Then, but this is speculation based on his resume: I wouldn’t be surprised that the reason that the F-117 is active again is that they act as a cover for a black program, just as the A-7’s were a cover for the F-117’s. All his public assignments on his biography have to do with the F-16, F-22 and F-35, and as far as I can see have little or nothing to do with the F-117. I think we can safely assume that the periods were his data is masked certainly have something to do with the YF-220 and the X-273.

I understood that the F-117’s were flown by Lockheed test pilots. I don’t think that if Col. Dan Javorsek was assigned as a test pilot with Lockheed on the F-117 that that would get his data masked, but I could be wrong - we just don’t know - but I think it’s unlikely. It certainly would draw a lot less attention to his bio than two classified aircraft.

Thinking along these lines it wouldn’t be a stretch to reason that the YF-220 and the X-273, or perhaps both, have something to do with the F-117. It’s speculation of course, but not unfounded.

I’m afraid it will take a while before we’ll know for sure, though.

Edit: this discussion might need a seperate or different topic.

 

[RavenOne]

Regarding the chase plane, I'm seeing a BAE Hawk more than a Harrier. Which seems like a more reasonable chase plane if you're observing some kind of classified tech demonstrator.

It could be a Hawk.
It could be a Hunter.

I'd back a Hunter as the RAE definitely used them, I don't think they had any Hawk chase planes.
Of course, it could be BAe doing its own testing with one of its own company-owned Hawks/Hunters as chase planes. It could just be a hoax. We could guess at a number of scenarios.

RAE had a few Hawks...at the time

- ETPS (Boscombe Down)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwROW_2pbY&t=51s


-Aviation Medicine

cheers

 

[Hood]

Yes the ETPS had three Hawks (2 T.1s and ASTRA), but I'm not sure the ETPS did chase duty.
In any case the aircraft looks like a Hunter to me.

 

[Dynoman]

Q-Nimbus, looking closer to at the Bio,

"In a previous command role, he served as a squadron commander and director of a combined test force conducting high-priority next generation air dominance flight tests of unique experimental aircraft."

His previous command role was:
"June 2014 – July 2016, Squadron Commander, Assignment data masked"

Which was likely the Classified Flight Test Squadron, or something similar to the 413th FTS. Therefore, I would translate that to mean that the NGAD aircraft test aircraft was designated YF-220 or X-273.

 

[In_A_Dream]

Q-Nimbus, looking closer to at the Bio,

"In a previous command role, he served as a squadron commander and director of a combined test force conducting high-priority next generation air dominance flight tests of unique experimental aircraft."

His previous command role was:
"June 2014 – July 2016, Squadron Commander, Assignment data masked"

Which was likely the Classified Flight Test Squadron, or something similar to the 413th FTS. Therefore, I would translate that to mean that the NGAD aircraft test aircraft was designated YF-220 or X-273.

Peter Merlin might know.

 

[Q-nimbus]

Q-Nimbus, looking closer to at the Bio,

"In a previous command role, he served as a squadron commander and director of a combined test force conducting high-priority next generation air dominance flight tests of unique experimental aircraft."

His previous command role was:
"June 2014 – July 2016, Squadron Commander, Assignment data masked"

Which was likely the Classified Flight Test Squadron, or something similar to the 413th FTS. Therefore, I would translate that to mean that the NGAD aircraft test aircraft was designated YF-220 or X-273.

I agree. It could even have both designations.

 

[bob225]

Anyone do a google search???

Could just be something very dull:-> https://myflightbook.com/logbook/mvc/AllMakes/397/5774

 

[Whisperstream]

Javorsek flew a "classified prototype" and a "demonstrator" (YF-220 and X-273, respectively). The term "classified prototype" has most frequently been used as code for a foreign asset such as the Su-27 or MiG-29. Officials have confirmed that an experimental NGAD demonstrator has been flown, so that may well be the X-273. Either of these designations could apply to something else entirely. There have been a surprising number of black programs undergoing flight testing over the past couple decades including, apparently, a number of manned platforms. All of the major industry players have been involved (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman), sometimes teaming up. Companies such as Scaled Composites (now part of Northrop Grumman) and others have had projects of their own. There are a lot of possibilities.

 

[Hydroman]

You know with the Russia/Ukraine war, the China build-up, it looks like the US black world is heating up.

 

[Dew]

There are a couple new (to me) designations that I am unfamiliar with. According to Col. Dan Javorsek's official biography, he test flew the YF-220 and the X-273.

X-273 was the DARPA X-plane technology risk reduction / experimentation precursor, where as YF-220 was an NGAD full build ala YF-22/23

from user 'Smythers' on DLR

 

[CiTrus90]

It makes me wonder if any of those might be something more "mundane" like the ‘Chrome’ Raptor, which may have gotten a different vehicle designation after undergoing such modifications? I mean, why redact his assignments but not the designations of those classified platforms, otherwise?

 

[CiTrus90]

To expand a little more on my line of thought (which I admit might be way off), what if YF-220 is nothing more than a demonstration craft (Y designator) of a F-22 using a digital century series approach (hence 220)?
Whereas the X-273 might be the experimental precursor to such a program and (given Javorsek familiarity with the F-117), this might be the Chrome F-117 (which may be an instrumented aircraft to conduct research)?

 

[CiTrus90]

Ok, once more I admit I may be just paranoid but I was thinking about the X-273 designation.
273-117=156.
1 star. 5 stars.*
6 as in Detachment 6.
I'm bordering on numerology BS, but hey, just in case I'm right I'd like to be the first one to put it out there

*5+1 stars is something usually seen on patches of programs associated with a place in Nevada.

 

[Dynoman]

From the eSeries website, which is the USAF's revolutionary means of translating digital design in to the acquisition of aircraft faster and cheaper and the technology used to produce the prototype PCA aircraft. (Note the raised aft dorsal spine, which forms a semi-vertical stabilizer which I haven't seen before in other NGAD/PCA designs. I believe this is a Boeing concept).

 

[Dynoman]

The eSeries drawing reminds me of the center tail of a Breguet 763 and the nose of the Northrop Grumman commercial PCA with inlets on the bottom instead of the top.

 

[Dynoman]

I don't know the origin of this patch, but one is the NGAD and the other is the AF Lifecycle Management Office with advance aircraft development division known as the Agile Development Office with the following description:
"The office was created to transform the Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program into the Air Force’s Digital Century Series initiative, using digital engineering, modular opens systems architecture, and agile software development to design advanced airplanes faster and enter production with a significantly lower learning curve. The Digital Century Series aims to improve the speed and flexibility with which aircraft can be fielded by using all-digital design and manufacturing technologies, but will not alter the warfighting technologies pursued in NGAD."

*5+1 stars is something usually seen on patches of programs associated with a place in Nevada.

If these are real they are missing the six stars 5+1 sometimes seen in Area 51 patches. Maybe suggesting TTR or something else.

 

[X-39]

The eSeries drawing reminds me of the center tail of a Breguet 763 and the nose of the Northrop Grumman commercial PCA with inlets on the bottom instead of the top.

Although not exactly a new configuration (but still, only remaining in conceptual stage till this day)

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/notional-fighter-projects-from-nasa.17430/post-70683

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dassault-stealth-fighter-concepts.162/post-890

 

[Whisperstream]

I don't know the origin of this patch, but one is the NGAD and the other is the AF Lifecycle Management Office with advance aircraft development division known as the Agile Development Office.

If these are real they are missing the six stars 5+1 sometimes seen in Area 51 patches. Maybe suggesting TTR or something else.

Both of those patches are for program offices at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio.

 

[Q-nimbus]

I can’t remember if someone posted this already, but the Amarillo sighting looks very much like the Boeing X-45C Phantom Ray to me.

It certainly is a lot more plausible than a top secret black project and for me it’s case closed.

 

[X-39]

https://www.afotec.af.mil/Portals/69/Det-6-CC-Bio-Javorsek-Mar21.pdf

...Two weeks later i am SURPRISED... FLABBERGASTED this isn't all over the news at this point and has slipped completely under the radar from sites like TheDrive and PopularMechanics because of course who could possibly imagine peering into the bio of some colonel would reveal real snippets related to NGAD . For context, a very similar situation was when the NG 6th Gen render surfaced. The thing is, obviously some editor bothered looking into the biennial report PDF and coincidentally there was an image worthy of very juicy headlines inside the article, from there it went viral. If no mil news outlet had miraculously picked up the story i am pretty sure that particular *not totally unrealistic concept would be lost in time aswell. That's my $0.02 opinion.

 

[Black Dog]

I can’t remember if someone posted this already, but the Amarillo sighting looks very much like the Boeing X-45C Phantom Ray to me.

It certainly is a lot more plausible than a top secret black project and for me it’s case closed. View attachment 688372

From what I recall there were three of the same aircraft together in flight. Looks like officially only one X-45C has been built. And speculation but I also remember that what was said about the radio traffic was that it was indicating they were manned aircraft

 

[quellish]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

 

[Q-nimbus]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

Do you have a link?

 

[Grey Havoc]

70+. In 2 years.

Though some of those would have likely been various studies running concurrently. Still impressive though.

 

[Whisperstream]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

Of course, the term "classified prototype" is also broadly used to describe all of the various foreign types under evaluation (MiG-29, Su-27, etc.). That said, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Scaled Composites, and others have been very busy out in the desert these past two decades.

 

[sublight_]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

Look, I dont mean to be disagreeable, but in the past you have said there is just no way we have a large amount of classified stuff out there that accounts for even a fraction of crazy things people have seen. But now you've just pulled the reverse UNO card and said the opposite about the amount of classified platforms....

 

[quellish]

Look, I dont mean to be disagreeable, but in the past you have said there is just no way we have a large amount of classified stuff out there

I do not recall saying that, if you could point me to where you think I have I would appreciate it.
If anything over the years I have pointed out the likelihood of a number of undisclosed programs being out there. A quick look through this and other threads confirmed that.

that accounts for even a fraction of crazy things people have seen. But now you've just pulled the reverse UNO card and said the opposite about the amount of classified platforms....

Wether there are many classified programs out there is one thing. For them to cause sightings is another, much less sightings far removed from areas used to test classified programs (I.e. in rural Iowa, etc.).

 

[aim9xray]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

Sounds like some impressive resume' engineering (based on wording in your posting).

"Worked on", not "flew". (He/she/it could have worked in the supply shop and touched ("worked on") "70 classified prototypes" of different LRUs).

"70 classified prototypes", of what? Platforms? LRUs? Software loads?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[sublight_]

Look, I dont mean to be disagreeable, but in the past you have said there is just no way we have a large amount of classified stuff out there

I do not recall saying that, if you could point me to where you think I have I would appreciate it.
If anything over the years I have pointed out the likelihood of a number of undisclosed programs being out there. A quick look through this and other threads confirmed that.

that accounts for even a fraction of crazy things people have seen. But now you've just pulled the reverse UNO card and said the opposite about the amount of classified platforms....

Wether there are many classified programs out there is one thing. For them to cause sightings is another, much less sightings far removed from areas used to test classified programs (I.e. in rural Iowa, etc.).

In the interest of being less disagreeable I am going to consider myself in complete agreement with you on this from now on.

Now if we could just reach common ground on the so called "stealth blimp"....

 

[serg.gonzp]

https://www.afotec.af.mil/Portals/69/Det-6-CC-Bio-Javorsek-Mar21.pdf

...Two weeks later i am View attachment 688431
View attachment 688433

I have always thought that this concept of ngad is very similar to what the witnesses of the boscombe down accident described.

 

[Q-nimbus]

I have in front of me a different bio, from a different person. While with the flight test squadron at Groom Lake between 1999 and 2001 he worked on more than 70 classified prototypes.

70+. In 2 years.

70 different prototypes is simply impossible if these are all airframes. There simply isn’t enough hangar space, not even with Groom Lake and Tonopah combined.

It would make a lot more sense if these 70+ ‘classified prototypes’ were divided into systems of a captured foreign aircraft, e.g. powerplants, avionics, radar, hydraulics, electrics etc.

A second option that comes to mind is that the person in question (is there a link?) was the head of a compartmentalized program and as such was able to oversee each individual program.

But there is no way that there were 70+ black airframes in a period of two years. It is even more unlikely considering the mentioned timeframe that massive black projects were going on as the time period of 1999-2001 was an exceptionally quiet period in geopolitics, and predictions at the time were that it would likely stay that way for a while were it not for 9/11.

In other words: we need more context.

 

[Michel Van]

Normal i ignore this section of Forum (mostly)
But i find this here intriguing because the Date and Time Frame
August 1990 in same time during Nov 29 1989-1991 happen the Belgium UFO wave
were people saw slow moving object in triangular shape.

 

[sublight_]

Normal i ignore this section of Forum (mostly)
But i find this here intriguing because the Date and Time Frame
August 1990 in same time during Nov 29 1989-1991 happen the Belgium UFO wave
were people saw slow moving object in triangular shape.

Ding Ding Ding!!!

 

[Sundog]

Stealth drone blimps/dirigibles. Cool.

 

[Dew]

There’s is absolutely no evidence that a D-notice was issued for the Calvine incident. Some people came to that conclusion based solely on the fact that the Scottish newspaper that first recieved the photo’s didn’t publish them, although they did send them to the RAF (probably because they believed something was on those pictures that wasn’t supposed to be seen.

I don't think that is entirely true. There is possible evidence. Where 'some people' may have come to the conclusion with your above reasoning some others have come to the conclusion based on the below MoD report, written in 2000, FOIA'd & discussed by Dr David Clarke. I'm not presenting it as concrete evidence, but that it could be related (i.e. 'absolutely no evidence' isn't the case').

 

[Q-nimbus]

There’s is absolutely no evidence that a D-notice was issued for the Calvine incident. Some people came to that conclusion based solely on the fact that the Scottish newspaper that first recieved the photo’s didn’t publish them, although they did send them to the RAF (probably because they believed something was on those pictures that wasn’t supposed to be seen.

I don't think that is entirely true. There is possible evidence. Where 'some people' may have come to the conclusion with your above reasoning some others have come to the conclusion based on the below MoD report, written in 2000, FOIA'd & discussed by Dr David Clarke. I'm not presenting it as concrete evidence, but that it could be related (i.e. 'absolutely no evidence' isn't the case').

View attachment 688853

Thank you, I wasn’t aware of this piece.

 

[TsrJoe]

uh huh !

 

[RavenOne]

speaking of which what the hell was this in 1993, approaching RAF Mildenhall Runway 28 (from the east) according to this RAF Buccaneer pilot who lived several miles away on that flight path from the base. He at the time was a Squadron Leader and in his book



cheers