Covid-19 Vaccine - Where, How & Costs

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J&J's rapid rollout is certainly very attractive, but if the new target of the vaccination campaign is herd immunity, I don't see the issue with the longer timeframe. It's 2 weeks to kick in vs 6 weeks.

Now, if you're India, OTOH, then J&J or AZ will be a lifesaver when you need protection now, now, now. Otherwise, the timing is not IMO too important.
 
Yeah, the long interval between jabs can be an asset in certain circumstances (including India's). Compared to the closer spacing of other 2-dose vaccines it enables you to roll-out first shots (and therefore a useful degree of protection against death and hospitalization!) at a higher rate. The UK took advantage of this to great effect as well.

With the current shortage of oxygen in India, hospitalization is virtually equivalent to death, so the impact should be even greater!
 
TomcatViP said:
Someone will have to tell the story of the vaccination across Europe since there are more victorious charges and debacles than in a Napoléon campaign !
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Just like I said a couple of weeks ago, everything changes every few weeks and they wonder why the public loses faith in vaccines and government policy.
Essentially it rumbles from crisis to crisis patching it up as it sees fit, the previous 'crisis' was blood clots, now its Indian variants, in a month's time it will be a new 'crisis'.

Clotting cases now up to over 240 and 41 deaths in the UK, so now the UK is going to offer under 40s a choice: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...zeneca-blood-clots-cases-latest-b1842455.html

The risk factors ever changing and evolving, but it does seem to be hitting younger people and females. They say, at the moment, a second dose doesn't seem to trigger the response.
 
Hood said:
everything changes every few weeks
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Of course it does. It's biology! Biology and public health is always not fully predictable. All drugs have side effects. Drugs without side effects are drugs that aren't working!

The problem is that public expectations were miscalibrated. Unfortunately, properly calibrating public expectations would have involved telling people that "we're making four different vaccines because given our bad luck, one or two of them are bound to have some unexpected side effects or even fail in weird ways we cannot predict at the present time, or we might run into production/political issues. Please cut us some slack, because biology is messy and making vaccines we know will work is hard. We figure all this stuff out (or make best guesses) on the fly as new data comes in every day and docs are told what to look for, so expect our advice to change weekly.".

The public does not like uncertain messages like this. At least, it is not believed that such a message would be widely accepted or build confidence in the vaccination campaign.
 
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chimeric oncogene said:
Of course it does. It's biology! Biology and public health is always not fully predictable. All drugs have side effects. Drugs without side effects are drugs that aren't working!
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And I (as well as hopefully the majority of others) completely realize that! Which is why I've been largely ok with the decisions taken up to this latest u-turn, because all of them were backed by sound rationale, given the info then available. But now? It doesn't just superficially look inconsistent, this time it really is!
 
Trident said:
And I (as well as hopefully the majority of others) completely realize that! Which is why I've been largely ok with the decisions taken up to this latest u-turn, because all of them were backed by sound rationale, given the info then available. But now? It doesn't just superficially look inconsistent, this time it really is!
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Ah, the Germans. Yep. I would totally not take AZ if I were under thirty and living in a country with an under-control outbreak. An age cap for AZ in countries where outbreaks are under control is reasonable. India is another matter.
 
science.slashdot.org

A New Covid Vaccine Could Bring Hope To the Unvaccinated World - Slashdot

The German company CureVac hopes its RNA vaccine will rival those made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. It could be ready next month. From a report: In early 2020, dozens of scientific teams scrambled to make a vaccine for Covid-19. Some chose tried-and-true techniques, such as making vaccines...
science.slashdot.org
 
Possibly one of the most scathing articles I’ve ever seen in Scientific American. Absolutely castigating Bolesero’s handling of the pandemic in Brazil describing his actions as both criminal and being the number one friend to COVID-19. That the crisis has got so bad their death rate for the first time in recorded Brazilian history is expected to exceed the birth rate. Also that he’s risking the whole planet as Brazil acts like a giant open air laboratory.

www.scientificamerican.com

Brazil's Pandemic Is a 'Biological Fukushima' That Threatens the Entire Planet

The largest country in Latin America now has states and cities where deaths are outpacing births
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
 
Article considering the use of self-disseminating vaccines to be used in wild animal populations to stop dangerous viruses crossing over into humans. Though it also points out about the issue of humans living too close to wild animals.

www.newscientist.com

We now have the technology to develop vaccines that spread themselves

Prevention is better than cure, so we should start using genetic techniques to stop dangerous animal diseases jumping to humans, say Scott Nuismer and James Bull
www.newscientist.com www.newscientist.com
 
Flyaway said:
Possibly one of the most scathing articles I’ve ever seen in Scientific American. Absolutely castigating Bolesero’s handling of the pandemic in Brazil describing his actions as both criminal and being the number one friend to COVID-19. That the crisis has got so bad their death rate for the first time in recorded Brazilian history is expected to exceed the birth rate. Also that he’s risking the whole planet as Brazil acts like a giant open air laboratory.

www.scientificamerican.com

Brazil's Pandemic Is a 'Biological Fukushima' That Threatens the Entire Planet

The largest country in Latin America now has states and cities where deaths are outpacing births
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...

Oh please. Those scientists working at the front lines are unaware? Another "It's The End of the World" Weekend brought to you by the Media.
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.bbc.com

Covid: Macron calls on US to drop vaccine export bans

The French president spoke out after the US backed a proposal to waive patents on Covid-19 vaccines.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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Someone should tell Mr Macron that one of his French has vowed with his associates to research for and produce a vaccine that ultimately proved to be the strongest tool to protect an entire population as quickly than effectively, a vaccine cheap enough (the vow for non-profit) that those that where lucky enough to have leaders that can really understand strategic thinking beyond big words in the media are today on the recovery path of that disease.

Instead of pointing the finger at others, Mr. Macron should offer what a vow for non-profit tempers in any industrial race: access to heavy logistic, backing for investments (instead of offering billions for free to an Egyptian dictator) and deploying his army of bots to protect vaccine reputation.

But yes, pointing at the Amerikans is more easy.

Last but not least, the vow was to me a dramatic error and people with some influence should urge AZ to renounce to that goal now that spreading the vaccine around the world will increase the cost of such campaign.
 
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edwest2 said:
Oh please. Those scientists working at the front lines are unaware? Another "It's The End of the World" Weekend brought to you by the Media.
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Fear could be a reaction with survival value in this affair. Have you been paying attention?
 
Arjen said:
edwest2 said:
Oh please. Those scientists working at the front lines are unaware? Another "It's The End of the World" Weekend brought to you by the Media.
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Fear could be a reaction with survival value in this affair. Have you been paying attention?
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The vaccine makers are at the center of all this. I cannot imagine the pressure they are under to increase production and distribution. I can say the public in the US has gotten their vaccines, or haven't yet decided or are opposed. In other countries, human behavior drives the spread of the virus. People I've seen in the US were and now are a bit too cavalier. Millions have boarded planes and others have relaxed their guard. This kind of behavior has implications for all countries going through this. I suggest you look here:

 
www.pharmacytimes.com

Moderna Releases Positive Initial COVID-19 Vaccine Booster Data Against Variants of Concern

Initial data from a phase 2 study showed that a single 50 µg dose of COVID-19 vaccines mRNA-1273 or mRNA-1273.351 given as a booster to individuals who were previously vaccinated increased their neutralizing antibody titer responses against SARS-CoV-2.
www.pharmacytimes.com www.pharmacytimes.com

Initial data from a phase 2 study showed that a single 50 µg dose of COVID-19 vaccines mRNA-1273 or mRNA-1273.351 given as a booster to individuals who were previously vaccinated increased their neutralizing antibody titer responses against SARS-CoV-2.
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Good, gimme dat booster!
 

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An antidote to fear tactics.
The UK government’s departing vaccine taskforce chief Clive Dix reckons there will be no Covid in the UK at all by August, yep all done and dusted, no need to panic. Boosters? Nah we'll leave it until 2022, it will be fine....
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/br...ing-vaccine-task-force-chief-says-2021-05-07/

Assuming every person gets a jab, assuming the vaccines are effective against every known and unknown variant from now until early 2022 then maybe this could happen, but I'm not optimistic.
 
Hood said:
An antidote to fear tactics.
The UK government’s departing vaccine taskforce chief Clive Dix reckons there will be no Covid in the UK at all by August, yep all done and dusted, no need to panic. Boosters? Nah we'll leave it until 2022, it will be fine....
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/br...ing-vaccine-task-force-chief-says-2021-05-07/

Assuming every person gets a jab, assuming the vaccines are effective against every known and unknown variant from now until early 2022 then maybe this could happen, but I'm not optimistic.
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My understanding is that this week UK gov has started a study (budget = £29m) into the effectiveness of the currently used vaccines against the Indian variant so we'll have a clearer view of the likelihood of that scenario in the weeks / months to come.
 
And just hope Modi and Bolsonaro aren't toiling in the open-air bioweapon labs they turned their entire countries into for purely ideological reasons of hurting people whose existence offends them. Then hope these evil fascist idiots' efforts don't bear fruit in the form of the invincible covid strain they so desperately want.
 
edwest2 said:
Flyaway said:
Possibly one of the most scathing articles I’ve ever seen in Scientific American. Absolutely castigating Bolesero’s handling of the pandemic in Brazil describing his actions as both criminal and being the number one friend to COVID-19. That the crisis has got so bad their death rate for the first time in recorded Brazilian history is expected to exceed the birth rate. Also that he’s risking the whole planet as Brazil acts like a giant open air laboratory.

www.scientificamerican.com

Brazil's Pandemic Is a 'Biological Fukushima' That Threatens the Entire Planet

The largest country in Latin America now has states and cities where deaths are outpacing births
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...

Oh please. Those scientists working at the front lines are unaware? Another "It's The End of the World" Weekend brought to you by the Media.
Click to expand...
Scientific America is hardly the mainstream media. You seem to be determined to engage in a case of shooting the messenger rather than actually bothering to engage with what they are saying.
 
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Hood said:
An antidote to fear tactics.
The UK government’s departing vaccine taskforce chief Clive Dix reckons there will be no Covid in the UK at all by August, yep all done and dusted, no need to panic. Boosters? Nah we'll leave it until 2022, it will be fine....
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/br...ing-vaccine-task-force-chief-says-2021-05-07/

Assuming every person gets a jab, assuming the vaccines are effective against every known and unknown variant from now until early 2022 then maybe this could happen, but I'm not optimistic.
Click to expand...
Actually he modified those comments somewhat when he appeared on the BBC news later on that day.

 
Hood said:
An antidote to fear tactics.
The UK government’s departing vaccine taskforce chief Clive Dix reckons there will be no Covid in the UK at all by August, yep all done and dusted, no need to panic. Boosters? Nah we'll leave it until 2022, it will be fine....
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/br...ing-vaccine-task-force-chief-says-2021-05-07/

Assuming every person gets a jab, assuming the vaccines are effective against every known and unknown variant from now until early 2022 then maybe this could happen, but I'm not optimistic.
Click to expand...
I know from personal experience a number of people who have no intention of getting vaccinated. I believe last survey on the matter found 94% of the U.K. in favour of getting vaccinated whether that will transfer into actually numbers I don’t know.
 
Flyaway said:
The story here is far more complex than the headline would suggest.

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Yeah, the reporting itself notes that 1/3 of the infected are vaccinated, but that about 2/3 of the population is fully vaccinated with inactivated vaccines and AZ.

This basically means the vaccines are working, at about 66-75% efficacy, as expected.

If they weren't working, 2/3 of the infected would have been vaccinated.
 
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Flyaway said:
I know from personal experience a number of people who have no intention of getting vaccinated. I believe last survey on the matter found 94% of the U.K. in favour of getting vaccinated whether that will transfer into actually numbers I don’t know.
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I know too many people who refuse to get vaxxed for fear-based or political reasons. When I ask why, they all tell me some blatant baldfaced lie from Facebook.

I also have a good number of friends who got covid before any vaccine was available, so I have one very angry dog in this fight.
 
chimeric oncogene said:
Yeah, the reporting itself notes that 1/3 of the infected are vaccinated, but that about 2/3 of the population is fully vaccinated with inactivated vaccines and AZ.

This basically means the vaccines are working, at about 66%+ efficacy, as expected.

If they weren't working, 2/3 of the infected would have been vaccinated.
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What's the reported effectiveness versus severe cases hospitalizations, and deaths?
 
dannydale said:
What's the reported effectiveness versus severe cases hospitalizations, and deaths?
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Dunno for the Seychelles.

Chilean data from a study of 1.5 million people indicates Sinovac has ~67% efficacy against infection, 85% against hospitalization and 80% against death. No data for Sinopharm, but both are inactivated vaccines and old data from smaller trials suggested Sinopharm was somewhat more effective than Sinovac.

AZ had 73% protection against infection. Dunno about death, probably somewhat better than Sinovac.

mRNA is really good 90%+, because mRNA is awesome.
 
For those who do not want to get vaccinated, not much can be done. I cannot control anyone else's behavior. That group faces three scenarios: infection without apparent illness, illness and possibly death, and being left out of places requiring a negative test or full vaccination.

The EU is under pressure by various travel groups to launch their Green Pass.
 
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