Cold Warriors: The Essex Class in the Cold War

[GTX]

As promised, here's a quick evaluation of the contenders against the RAAF requirement in this scenario - note the stated requirement at the bottom. I have also taken some liberty in some of the inputs on things such as combat radius and in-service date:

The fighters:

The bombers:

The colour coding is as such:

Red - Does not meet requirement or, in the case of dates, meant it would have to be ordered off the drawing board.
Pale Green - An advantage
Bright Green - Possible deciding advantage

To take it further, we would need required in service dates, likely order dates, weightings for requirements.

 

[SSgtC]

As promised, here's a quick evaluation of the contenders against the RAAF requirement in this scenario - note the stated requirement at the bottom. I have also taken some liberty in some of the inputs on things such as combat radius and in-service date:

The fighters:

The bombers:

The colour coding is as such:

Red - does not meat requirement or, in the case of dates, meant it would have to be ordered off the drawing board.
Pale Green - and advantage
Bright Green - possible deciding advantage

To take it further, we would need required in service dates, likely order dates, weightings for requirements.

Great charts. Thanks!

 

[GTX]

And for comparison, here is part of the Real World evaluation of EE Canberra replacements by the RAAF:

 

[GTX]

If you thought the bombing koalas were frightening sit down and read this

GREATER AUSTRALIA

GREATER AUSTRALIA

beyondthesprues.com

but meanwhile in the real world Jacinta just got re elected

And the Oceanic Confederation welcomes the re-election of our New Zealand leader and her progressive government...

 

[Volkodav]

An idea I have been toying with for quite a while is a RAAF EE Lightening Gun Fighter.

The premise being Indonesia's acquisition of TU16s, wariness over the performance of surface to air missiles of the time (aided by the fact that many UK types were tested in Woomera Australia with Australian assistance so we got to see just how bad they were), together with the obvious obsolescence of the Sabre as well as the lack of any high performance interceptor in RAAF service. Throw in the 1956 "Battle OF Palmdale" that didn't show USAF rocket armed interceptors in a very good light and it would have been perfectly understandable why a medium sized air force whose neighbor's had just bought high performance, long range jet bombers, may be interested in a reliable means of protecting critical infrastructure from attack from said bombers.

End result a six gun EE Lightening, possibly with supplementary rocket to increase rate of climb.

Two ADEN above the intake and two below and a pair in the belly fairing. Also thinking a Phantom style wing pylon forward of the main landing gear for a pair of sidewinders each.

 

[uk 75]

Sidewinders in this period were not very effective. Lightnings came with 2 Firestreak missiles, later 2 Red Tops. These were probably as effective at taking down Badgers but others will know more.

 

[zen]

An idea I have been toying with for quite a while is a RAAF EE Lightening Gun Fighter.

The premise being Indonesia's acquisition of TU16s, wariness over the performance of surface to air missiles of the time (aided by the fact that many UK types were tested in Woomera Australia with Australian assistance so we got to see just how bad they were), together with the obvious obsolescence of the Sabre as well as the lack of any high performance interceptor in RAAF service. Throw in the 1956 "Battle OF Palmdale" that didn't show USAF rocket armed interceptors in a very good light and it would have been perfectly understandable why a medium sized air force whose neighbor's had just bought high performance, long range jet bombers, may be interested in a reliable means of protecting critical infrastructure from attack from said bombers.

End result a six gun EE Lightening, possibly with supplementary rocket to increase rate of climb.

Two ADEN above the intake and two below and a pair in the belly fairing. Also thinking a Phantom style wing pylon forward of the main landing gear for a pair of sidewinders each.

I'd not use the over the inlet position for guns on the Lightning. These didn't work out that well, which is why the position was abandoned.
But fitting more into a belly bulge is quite feasible.

 

[Archibald]

If you thought the bombing koalas were frightening sit down and read this

GREATER AUSTRALIA

GREATER AUSTRALIA

beyondthesprues.com

but meanwhile in the real world Jacinta just got re elected

And the Oceanic Confederation welcomes the re-election of our New Zealand leader and her progressive government...

I, for one, welcome our new NZ overlords...

 

[SSgtC]

Sidewinders in this period were not very effective. Lightnings came with 2 Firestreak missiles, later 2 Red Tops. These were probably as effective at taking down Badgers but others will know more.

Sidewinder and Firestreak had roughly similar performance, though Firestreak had a significantly bigger warhead. Interestingly, at least as far as I've seen, Firestreak was intended only to be an interim missile, but continued in service long after it's planned retirement due to early Lightnings not being able to carry Red Top.

 

[SSgtC]

February 4, 1958
Newport News, VA

The keel of the future USS Enterprise is laid at Newport News Shipbuilding in Shipway 11. The first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in the world, she is projected to complete in late 1960 at a cost of approximately three hundred million dollars. While work commences on Enterprise, the workmen of Newport News begin preparing to lay down her sister in a little less than a year. In a first for Newport News Shipbuilding, America will be built in a graving dock and floated out upon completion instead of being built on a traditional inclined shipway.

 

[SSgtC]

March 18, 1958
Den Helder, North Holland, Netherlands

HNLMS Karel Doorman recommissions into the Dutch Navy after a three year modernization to give her an angled flight deck, enlarged elevators, steam catapults and new, stronger arresting gear. The upgrades considerably enhance her combat capabilities and enable her to safely operate the latest jet fighters from her deck.

Following sea trials, deck qualification trials, refresher training and another short yard period to fix anything that breaks during trials, Doorman would be making a good will visit to the United States. That voyage was currently scheduled for early 1959, however planning for it had already begun. The rotation of destroyers to West New Guinea would need to be adjusted to give the Doorman a proper force of escorts for her crossing of the North Atlantic. Some had argued that she should instead be deployed to the Far East as a demonstration of Dutch resolve in the region, but Vice Admiral Ardi van Es had shot that idea down quickly. Doorman's air group was not up to that type of operation yet. They would need intensive exercises first to redevelop unit cohesion and learn to operate safely from their heavily modified carrier.

 

[SSgtC]

March 23, 1958
Port of Tanjung Perak, East Java, Indonesia

The Soviet Kotlin class destroyer Svetlyy arrives in Indonesia for the first port visit of a Soviet warship to the country. Having only commissioned into the Soviet Pacific Fleet two and a half years earlier, she is one of the newest operational destroyers in the Soviet Navy. This event raises red flags among numerous Pacific nations allied with the United States or the other Western powers. Not only is it a sign of much closer relations between the Indonesia and the USSR, it is also seen as a case of the Soviet Union showcasing their hardware for potential sale to Indonesia.

In numerous countries with interests in the region, furious phone calls are made to their respective intelligence and diplomatic services demanding and updated assessment of the Soviet/Indonesian relationship.

 

[lordroel]

March 18, 1958
Den Helder, North Holland, Netherlands

HNLMS Karel Doorman recommissions into the Dutch Navy after a three year modernization to give her an angled flight deck, enlarged elevators, steam catapults and new, stronger arresting gear. The upgrades considerably enhance her combat capabilities and enable her to safely operate the latest jet fighters from her deck.

Following sea trials, deck qualification trials, refresher training and another short yard period to fix anything that breaks during trials, Doorman would be making a good will visit to the United States. That voyage was currently scheduled for early 1959, however planning for it had already begun. The rotation of destroyers to West New Guinea would need to be adjusted to give the Doorman a proper force of escorts for her crossing of the North Atlantic. Some had argued that she should instead be deployed to the Far East as a demonstration of Dutch resolve in the region, but Vice Admiral Ardi van Es had shot that idea down quickly. Doorman's air group was not up to that type of operation yet. They would need intensive exercises first to redevelop unit cohesion and learn to operate safely from their heavily modified carrier.

Nice to see here back in action.

 

[Archibald]

hopefully someday, Doorman will get Skyhawks...

 

[lordroel]

hopefully someday, Doorman will get Skyhawks...

Yep, they would look nice.

 

[JohnR]

What was the 'Battle of Palmdale'?

 

[SSgtC]

What was the 'Battle of Palmdale'?

Shhhhh! The Air Force doesn't like to talk about that! In short, Air Force F-89Ds were unable to shoot down an unmanned F6F Hellcat. In their defense, they were using unguided rockets to try and kill it.

 

[SSgtC]

hopefully someday, Doorman will get Skyhawks...

*Looks away and starts whistling*

 

[JohnR]

What was the 'Battle of Palmdale'?

Shhhhh! The Air Force doesn't like to talk about that! In short, Air Force F-89Ds were unable to shoot down an unmanned F6F Hellcat. In their defense, they were using unguided rockets to try and kill it.

I have always thought unguided rockets were a strange concept, a heavy cannon armament (such as the Hunters Adens) would be much more effective.

 

[Archibald]

The F-89 was a dog, really. Lot of issues, everywhere.

 

[SSgtC]

What was the 'Battle of Palmdale'?

Shhhhh! The Air Force doesn't like to talk about that! In short, Air Force F-89Ds were unable to shoot down an unmanned F6F Hellcat. In their defense, they were using unguided rockets to try and kill it.

I have always thought unguided rockets were a strange concept, a heavy cannon armament (such as the Hunters Adens) would be much more effective.

It was a step on the road to guided missiles, so in that sense they were worthwhile. My personal opinion, is that the USAF was seriously freaked out by Germany's use of them against their bomber boxes over Europe. And thus adopted them en masse after the war assuming that they could target them better than Germany could and they'd be a lot more effective than they were

 

[Archibald]

The R4M were quite a shock indeed...

 

[Volkodav]

What was the 'Battle of Palmdale'?

Sorry been busy.

Yes they failed to shoot down the Hellcat but did manage to start a number of quite destructive fires and hit a couple of houses.

 

[SSgtC]

April 15, 1958
Brooklyn, NY, USA

USS Leyte is decommissioned. After her return to Quonset Point Naval Air Station following her Caribbean and Mediterranean cruise she had commenced pre-inactivation preparations. This had mainly involved the offloading of tons of stores, supplies, spare parts and everything else that made her a functional warship. As the mountains of gear had piled up on the dock, trucks had arrived to carry it all away to warehouses and supply depots. While some of the gear would inevitably be placed in a warehouse and forgotten about, the vast majority of the equipment would reenter the Navy supply system and end up on other ships to see further service.

Following the offloading of supplies in Rhode Island, the larger portion of her crew were given orders detaching them from their ship and sending them on to new duty stations where they would join new ships or training commands to pass on their hard won knowledge. The remaining crew hauled in the lines that were securing the old straight decked carrier to the pier and sailed south for Brooklyn.

On her arrival at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, her remaining crew were detached from the ship and sent on their way to their new commands. The last two crew members of Leyte were her Captain and her Chief Yeoman. The Yeoman cut the Captain's orders to join the staff of Carrier Division 18. The final orders he cut were his. For Leyte, the end was nigh.

She did not remain empty for long. As her Commissioning Pennant was hauled down, the workmen from the Brooklyn Navy Yard began to swarm over the old carrier. Her fuel bunkers were drained, her avgas storage tanks were emptied and purged to eliminate dangerous vapors. Her engineering spaces were thoroughly cleaned and dried, with large dehumidifiers placed in them to slow the spread of corrosion. Her fire mains were depressurized and drained, with the valves left open to allow them to dry completely. Damage control equipment including fire hoses, lumber shoring beams and emergency electrical cables were pulled from their mounts and piled in the hanger to await removal from the ship.

On her island, her radars and radio were removed from their spaces along with all the cryptographic gear. Her antennas and radar dishes were removed and placed into large warehouses in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Other workmen went through the ship and made sure every hatch was open and set up large fans and dehumidifiers to dry the air and circulate it throughout the ship to keep things dry and prevent corrosion. The final work was to thoroughly seal the ship from the outside. All her exterior openings save one were dogged shut with large sheets of plastic glued over them after to prevent any moisture from entering the ship. On the bridge, the glass was covered to keep the sun and rain out.

Once all the work was complete, ex-Leyte was towed from the Navy Yard and anchored with the other ships of the Hudson River Reserve Fleet. There, she joined her sister, ex-Franklin just off Bayonne, New Jersey to await their fates.

 

[SSgtC]

May 1, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

The first cuts are made from the offered designs for Australia's new fighter and bomber force. The Saunders-Roe SR.177 was deemed unsuitable to Royal Australian Air Force requirements. It was eliminated based on its short proposed range, limited armament and the cost to complete development. Along with the SR.177, the English Electric Lightning is also eliminated from consideration. Similarly to the SR.177, the aircraft's short range and limited armament are the primary reasons given for it's elimination.

Vought is also notified that its Crusader I and II are no longer being considered. Though the aircraft is seen as an outstanding dog fighter, neither aircraft met the required speed of mach two. Additionally, the Crusader I was a daylight only air superiority gun fighter and lacked any other armament. In consolation for that rejection however, Vought is informed that the RAAF is very interested in the under development Crusader III with it's high speed, long range and heavy missile armament.

Lockheed's F-104A was likewise eliminated along with the Convair F-106 as being single role interceptors. Though both aircraft received high praise for their performance, the RAAF preferred a general purpose fighter over a dedicated interceptor. Additionally, some reservations were expressed about the accident rate of the F-104. Even though their initial offerings were rejected, both manufacturers were invited to modify their proposals if they wished. Convair declined this invitation as they had already studied the possibility of converting the Delta Dart to a fighter-bomber and ruled it out. Lockheed though quickly reoffered the Starfighter in the guise of the F-104C, an upcoming fighter-bomber variant for the US Air Force. Lockheed also emphasized the dedicated reconnaissance version and the dual seat/dual control variants of the Starfighter in an attempt to sell Australia a complete weapons system, capable of performing every mission from training, reconnaissance, air superiority and strike and post strike assessment.

For the bomber competition, both the Avro Vulcan and Boeing B-47 were quickly eliminated. Though both bombers could carry vastly larger bombloads over greater distances than the existing Canberra fleet could, the aircraft were still subsonic designs optimized for operations at high altitude, where they would be sitting ducks for the new fighters being introduced by Indonesia. Though not outright eliminated, the TSR-2 and the two proposed American designs from Boeing and General Dynamics were told that they were not being strongly considered as Australia believed it would take ten years or more for the proposed designs to enter Royal Australian Air Force service and they needed something much sooner. Additional information was requested from all three companies, but it was widely accepted that at a minimum, an interim type would have to be selected for service until the new designs were ready should they be chosen for procurement.

 

[Archibald]

Yes ! the aerospace pornfest, has started ! Both French Mirage options are still seemingly on the table...

 

[SSgtC]

Yes ! the aerospace pornfest, has started ! Both French Mirage options are still seemingly on the table...

Yes, both offerings from Dassault are still in consideration. This was just the initial "these aircraft are so far outside what we want, there's no point in considering them any further," cut.

 

[lordroel]

Yes ! the aerospace pornfest, has started ! Both French Mirage options are still seemingly on the table...

As well as the Draken and F-4, all three look nice in RAAF colors.

 

[Archibald]

Draken with Avon would be such an irony ! Delta like the Mirage yet with the Avon this time...

 

[SSgtC]

May 12, 1958
Jakarta, Java, Indonesia

Allen Pope had been kept secured in Cipinang Prison since his trial and conviction in November. Six months in this flea infested hellhole was enough to drive anyone mad. The Embassy had sent over a liaison a few times to ensure that he wasn't being mistreated, but as a whole, everyone seemed to have forgotten about him. The sun was high in the sky judging by the sticky heat in his cell when the guards opened the door and escorted him out into the yard. When he entered the yard, his steps faltered and his eyes grew wide at what he saw. The guards beside him grabbed his arms and began dragging him toward the stake that was centered in the yard. In front of the single pole was a squad of Indonesian Army personnel with a Priest standing with them.

Allen was in shock. His hands were tied behind his back and he was tied to the stake. The diplomats had promised him that they were trying to free him. That was the only though that was going through his head as he the blindfold went on and the orders were shouted and the rifles cracked. But they had promised...

 

[SSgtC]

June 1, 1958
Long Beach, CA, USA

USS Princeton (CVS 37) is decommissioned and placed in the Pacific Reserve fleet. Similarly to Leyte on the East Coast, Princeton received a thorough overhaul prior to being anchored with the other ships of the Pacific Reserve Fleet in Long Beach. As part of the agreement reached between the Navy and Congress to secure funding for the second Enterprise class carrier two years ahead of schedule, Princeton's planned conversion to an amphibious assault ship is canceled. Though the Marine Corps screamed bloody murder at the loss of a new assault ship, the Navy and Congress made it very clear to them that a nuclear powered super carrier far outweighed a thirteen year old carrier conversion.

 

[SSgtC]

June 3, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

The Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm reviews the list of proposed fighters being considered by the Air Force. They had themselves just completed a review of their fighter force and found it sorely lacking. The Hawker Sea Hawks that flew off of Melbourne were almost completely outclassed by Indonesia's fighters along with threats further afield such as the fighters being fielded by North Korea and North Vietnam. If Australia was to maintain their position as a regional power, they would need to upgrade their aircraft.

Of the offered aircraft, only the American offerings from Vought, Grumman and McDonnell were carrier capable. Unfortunately, the steam catapults on Melbourne were incapable of launching aircraft heavier than the Grumman F11F-1F Tiger. And its ability to even safely and consistently launch that aircraft was marginal, particularly in hot and humid weather. And of the aircraft that were suitable for carrier operations, the Tiger was by far the least capable aircraft. It lacked anything more than a gun ranging radar and short range sidewinder missiles. The other two designs under consideration were both armed with long range radar guided missiles and were both significantly faster and longer ranged.

The Navy was increasingly coming to the conclusion that they had erred in buying Melbourne from the United Kingdom. While being able to operate a modern angled deck carrier gave Australia enormous prestige, the limitations of the British Light Fleet carrier were quickly becoming more and more apparent. The Royal Australian Navy needed a new carrier.

 

[lordroel]

June 3, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia

The Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm reviews the list of proposed fighters being considered by the Air Force. They had themselves just completed a review of their fighter force and found it sorely lacking. The Hawker Sea Hawks that flew off of Melbourne were almost completely outclassed by Indonesia's fighters along with threats further afield such as the fighters being fielded by North Korea and North Vietnam. If Australia was to maintain their position as a regional power, they would need to upgrade their aircraft.

Of the offered aircraft, only the American offerings from Vought, Grumman and McDonnell were carrier capable. Unfortunately, the steam catapults on Melbourne were incapable of launching aircraft heavier than the Grumman F11F-1F Tiger. And its ability to even safely and consistently launch that aircraft was marginal, particularly in hot and humid weather. And of the aircraft that were suitable for carrier operations, the Tiger was by far the least capable aircraft. It lacked anything more than a gun ranging radar and short range sidewinder missiles. The other two designs under consideration were both armed with long range radar guided missiles and were both significantly faster and longer ranged.

The Navy was increasingly coming to the conclusion that they had erred in buying Melbourne from the United Kingdom. While being able to operate a modern angled deck carrier gave Australia enormous prestige, the limitations of the British Light Fleet carrier were quickly becoming more and more apparent. The Royal Australian Navy needed a new carrier.

Enter a Essex most likely.

 

[JohnR]

What was the condition of the Centaurs when retired by the RN, could they have been a replacement for Melbourne with a worthwhile lifespan?

 

[SSgtC]

What was the condition of the Centaurs when retired by the RN, could they have been a replacement for Melbourne with a worthwhile lifespan?

None are available in this time period. Centaur didn't decommission until 65 and Albion was in service until 73. Bulwark decommissioned in 58, but that so she could be converted to a commando carrier and was back in service by 1960. Hermes was still under construction and wouldn't commission until 59, but I'm not so sure the RN would be willing to part with her at this point a she would be one of their only Class A carriers.

 

[SSgtC]

June 9, 1958
Washington, DC, USA

President Eisenhower was furious. The CIA had blatantly ignored his orders and committed American personnel to the operation in Indonesia. And now one of those men had been executed. The man had been dead for nearly a month and the Indonesians had only just now informed them of that fact! Of course, they had apologized profusely for the oversight of course. They claimed that the proper notification had been duly sent out but due to the unrest in their country, it was lost in the labyrinth that made up any bureaucracy.

The United States had been humiliated in Indonesia. The Soviets were crowing quite loudly about the United States' utter disregard for the sovereignty of a freely elected government. Throughout the developing world, the prestige of the United States had taken a severe beating. All that he could deal with. When nations played games to gain influence and control, they both played to win and you couldn't win every time. But the death of an American, when he had specifically ordered the CIA not to use Americans in the operation, that he could not stomach.

He had insisted on plausible deniability. That had been partially lost when a tabloid in India had splashed the entire plan across its front page. While that was bad, it was still something that could have been overcome. But having an American airmen shot down with all his ID on him and concrete proof that he was still actively involved with the United States Government in the form of a Clark Air Base Officer's Club ID card was a disaster that they could not deny. Oh they were trying. But it turned his stomach what they had to do. The CIA and his government had completely disavowed Allen Pope. He was decried as a rouge that had disobeyed direct orders, stolen US Government property and used it to attack the legitimate government of Indonesia. He had been forced to issue a formal, public apology to Indonesia for Pope's actions. Allen Dulles had a lot of explaining to do.

 

[SSgtC]

June 30, 1958
Buenos Aires, Argentina

USS Intrepid (CVA 11) arrives in Buenos Aires for a port visit at the start of her Summer Cruise. Though originally planned to stop at Lisbon, Portugal; Oslo, Norway and Rotterdam, Netherlands in Europe, her cruise is altered from a Northern Atlantic and European cruise to the South Atlantic with ports of call in several South American nations including Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela. This alteration was at the behest of the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Arleigh Burke who felt that the United States had not been paying enough attention to that particular theater. And as a side benefit, the cruise would provide an opportunity to showcase American hardware in South America, particularly American destroyers and cruisers. Though Intrepid would receive special emphasis while in Buenos Aires in an attempt to convince Argentina to buy a surplus Essex class carrier for their Navy instead of the British light fleet carrier they had been considering.

Intrepid and her task force would remain in Buenos Aires for five days while her Commanding Officer and Rear Admiral Paul Ramsey, Commander, Carrier Division 20, briefed the Argentines on the Essex class and the pros and cons of operating such a large carrier.

 

[SSgtC]

July 1, 1958
Washington DC, USA

Admirals Burke and Davis meet with Secretary of the Navy Thomas S Gates Jr. They are there to brief him on Argentina's interest in purchasing an Essex class carrier. Though initially resistant to the idea of transferring such a powerful ship to a South American country, he is slowly brought around to the idea. The sale of an aircraft carrier to an ally in the South Atlantic would greatly ease the strain on the US of patrolling the area, providing Argentina would be able to operate it effectively and deploy the carrier on an at least semi-regular basis. It would also strengthen ties between Argentina and the US, giving the US a staunch ally in the region. Additionally, it was felt that if Argentina was determined to buy an aircraft carrier, better it be an American one, giving the United States some control over how it was used. By the end of the meeting, Secretary Gates agrees to endorse the proposal and present it to the Secretary of Defense.

 

[lordroel]

July 1, 1958
Washington DC, USA

Admirals Burke and Davis meet with Secretary of the Navy Thomas S Gates Jr. They are there to brief him on Argentina's interest in purchasing an Essex class carrier. Though initially resistant to the idea of transferring such a powerful ship to a South American country, he is slowly brought around to the idea. The sale of an aircraft carrier to an ally in the South Atlantic would greatly ease the strain on the US of patrolling the area, providing Argentina would be able to operate it effectively and deploy the carrier on an at least semi-regular basis. It would also strengthen ties between Argentina and the US, giving the US a staunch ally in the region. Additionally, it was felt that if Argentina was determined to buy an aircraft carrier, better it be an American one, giving the United States some control over how it was used. By the end of the meeting, Secretary Gates agrees to endorse the proposal and present it to the Secretary of Defense.

Well i wonder if Argentina can operate it for 30 years as i would like see see it in action during a small naval conflict.

 

[RanulfC]

June 9, 1958
Washington, DC, USA

President Eisenhower was furious. The CIA had blatantly ignored his orders and committed American personnel to the operation in Indonesia. And now one of those men had been executed. The man had been dead for nearly a month and the Indonesians had only just now informed them of that fact! Of course, they had apologized profusely for the oversight of course. They claimed that the proper notification had been duly sent out but due to the unrest in their country, it was lost in the labyrinth that made up any bureaucracy.

The United States had been humiliated in Indonesia. The Soviets were crowing quite loudly about the United States' utter disregard for the sovereignty of a freely elected government. Throughout the developing world, the prestige of the United States had taken a severe beating. All that he could deal with. When nations played games to gain influence and control, they both played to win and you couldn't win every time. But the death of an American, when he had specifically ordered the CIA not to use Americans in the operation, that he could not stomach.

He had insisted on plausible deniability. That had been partially lost when a tabloid in India had splashed the entire plan across its front page. While that was bad, it was still something that could have been overcome. But having an American airmen shot down with all his ID on him and concrete proof that he was still actively involved with the United States Government in the form of a Clark Air Base Officer's Club ID card was a disaster that they could not deny. Oh they were trying. But it turned his stomach what they had to do. The CIA and his government had completely disavowed Allen Pope. He was decried as a rouge that had disobeyed direct orders, stolen US Government property and used it to attack the legitimate government of Indonesia. He had been forced to issue a formal, public apology to Indonesia for Pope's actions. Allen Dulles had a lot of explaining to do.

Ouch... This is a VERY significant event actually since it should be now clear that Dulles' "pitch" that the CIA can easily handle any "non-war" action is obviously in question which means the NEXT "planned" CIA operation is likely to have a lot less support from Ike and Nixon. We'll see of course but Ike had been 'convinced' by such things as the 'success' of the 1953 Iranian coup that the CIA could handle such operations yet here they specifically both disobeyed his directive, (which to be honest they did with things like U2 operations as well but this is much more in-his-face) AND failed so he's not going to be very favorable to their idea of 'invading' Cuba...

Randy