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Grey Havoc said:
China being China. :
Grey Havoc said:
In a statement published on a verified social media feed just before the ruling, China’s Ministry of Defense said the decision wouldn't affect its approach in the South China Sea.
“No matter what the result of the arbitration, the Chinese military will unswervingly protect the nation’s sovereignty, security and maritime rights, resolutely protect the safety and stability of the region, and face down all manner of threats and challenges,” it said.
After the ruling, the ministry referred to the comment as its official statement.
BEIJING, July 12 (Xinhua) -- Following is the full text of the Statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China on the Award of 12 July 2016 of the Arbitral Tribunal in the South China Sea Arbitration Established at the Request of the Republic of the Philippines issued on Tuesday.
Statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China on the Award of 12 July 2016 of the Arbitral Tribunal in the South China Sea Arbitration Established at the Request of the Republic of the Philippines
With regard to the award rendered on 12 July 2016 by the Arbitral Tribunal in the South China Sea arbitration established at the unilateral request of the Republic of the Philippines (hereinafter referred to as the "Arbitral Tribunal"), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China solemnly declares that the award is null and void and has no binding force. China neither accepts nor recognizes it.
1. On 22 January 2013, the then government of the Republic of the Philippines unilaterally initiated arbitration on the relevant disputes in the South China Sea between China and the Philippines. On 19 February 2013, the Chinese government solemnly declared that it neither accepts nor participates in that arbitration and has since repeatedly reiterated that position. On 7 December 2014, the Chinese government released the Position Paper of the Government of the People's Republic of China on the Matter of Jurisdiction in the South China Sea Arbitration Initiated by the Republic of the Philippines, pointing out that the Philippines' initiation of arbitration breaches the agreement between the two states, violates the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and goes against the general practice of international arbitration, and that the Arbitral Tribunal has no jurisdiction. On 29 October 2015, the Arbitral Tribunal rendered an award on jurisdiction and admissibility. The Chinese government immediately stated that the award is null and void and has no binding force. China's positions are clear and consistent.
2. The unilateral initiation of arbitration by the Philippines is out of bad faith. It aims not to resolve the relevant disputes between China and the Philippines, or to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea, but to deny China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea. The initiation of this arbitration violates international law. First, the subject-matter of the arbitration initiated by the Philippines is in essence an issue of territorial sovereignty over some islands and reefs of Nansha Qundao (the Nansha Islands), and inevitably concerns and cannot be separated from maritime delimitation between China and the Philippines. Fully aware that territorial issues are not subject to UNCLOS, and that maritime delimitation disputes have been excluded from the UNCLOS compulsory dispute settlement procedures by China's 2006 declaration, the Philippines deliberately packaged the relevant disputes as mere issues concerning the interpretation or application of UNCLOS. Second, the Philippines' unilateral initiation of arbitration infringes upon China's right as a state party to UNCLOS to choose on its own will the procedures and means for dispute settlement. As early as in 2006, pursuant to Article 298 of UNCLOS, China excluded from the compulsory dispute settlement procedures of UNCLOS disputes concerning, among others, maritime delimitation, historic bays or titles, military and law enforcement activities. Third, the Philippines' unilateral initiation of arbitration violates the bilateral agreement reached between China and the Philippines, and repeatedly reaffirmed over the years, to resolve relevant disputes in the South China Sea through negotiations. Fourth, the Philippines' unilateral initiation of arbitration violates the commitment made by China and ASEAN Member States, including the Philippines, in the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) to resolve the relevant disputes through negotiations by states directly concerned. By unilaterally initiating the arbitration, the Philippines violates UNCLOS and its provisions on the application of dispute settlement procedures, the principle of "pacta sunt servanda" and other rules and principles of international law.
3. The Arbitral Tribunal disregards the fact that the essence of the subject-matter of the arbitration initiated by the Philippines is issues of territorial sovereignty and maritime delimitation, erroneously interprets the common choice of means of dispute settlement already made jointly by China and the Philippines, erroneously construes the legal effect of the relevant commitment in the DOC, deliberately circumvents the optional exceptions declaration made by China under Article 298 of UNCLOS, selectively takes relevant islands and reefs out of the macro-geographical framework of Nanhai Zhudao (the South China Sea Islands), subjectively and speculatively interprets and applies UNCLOS, and obviously errs in ascertaining fact and applying the law. The conduct of the Arbitral Tribunal and its awards seriously contravene the general practice of international arbitration, completely deviate from the object and purpose of UNCLOS to promote peaceful settlement of disputes, substantially impair the integrity and authority of UNCLOS, gravely infringe upon China's legitimate rights as a sovereign state and state party to UNCLOS, and are unjust and unlawful.
4. China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests in the South China Sea shall under no circumstances be affected by those awards. China opposes and will never accept any claim or action based on those awards.
5. The Chinese government reiterates that, regarding territorial issues and maritime delimitation disputes, China does not accept any means of third party dispute settlement or any solution imposed on China. The Chinese government will continue to abide by international law and basic norms governing international relations as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, including the principles of respecting state sovereignty and territorial integrity and peaceful settlement of disputes, and continue to work with states directly concerned to resolve the relevant disputes in the South China Sea through negotiations and consultations on the basis of respecting historical facts and in accordance with international law, so as to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-07/12/c_135507744.htm
Grey Havoc said:
China must take revenge and let it know it’s wrong. Australia’s power means nothing compared to the security of China. If Australia steps into the South China Sea waters, it will be an ideal target for China to warn and strike.
bobbymike said:http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-will-hold-its-fire-the-south-china-sea-%E2%80%94-until-17201
bobbymike said:https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1140.html?adbsc=social_20160801_939041&adbid=759975709167132672&adbpl=tw&adbpr=22545453
RAND Report War with China
NeilChapman said:bobbymike said:https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1140.html?adbsc=social_20160801_939041&adbid=759975709167132672&adbpl=tw&adbpr=22545453
RAND Report War with China
Interesting read...
Given the likelihood of the PRC's planning for a "controlled" military engagement with the US I will posit the following...
Perhaps the island building is to give the US something to shoot at.
For example, the PRC has some given political objective. To meet that objective requires some engagement that will potentially or likely result in some armed US response but will also result in the political objective being met.
If you're planning for a "controlled" military engagement then you're also planning on your oppositions response i.e. what your opposition will be shooting at. You would want to give the opposition something that
1. allows them to make a point
2. you really won't miss
3. limits the likelihood that your core military assets will be damaged
4. limits the number of PRC comrades that will be killed
5. makes it less likely you'll have negative political fallout from the populace
6. makes it more likely that it will generate national fervor
so you build islands 600 miles from your coast and stick a flag on it. Then you make a bunch of noise like it "really" matters to you.
sferrin said:Well lookie here, China has built hardened aircraft shelters on their new "islands".
https://news.usni.org/2016/08/09/u-s-pacific-fleets-swift-calls-military-transparency-china-visit
"The CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative report analyzed recent satellite imagery and determined that on China’s artificial islands in the Spratlys with runways – Firey Cross Reef, Mischief Reef and Subi Reef – Beijing has built hardened military aircraft hangars.
The smallest hangars, “can easily accommodate any fighter-jet in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), including the J-11 and Su-30. The second type of hangar is large enough for the H-6 bomber and H-6U refueling tanker, Y-8 transport aircraft, and KJ200 Airborne Warning and Control System plane,” read the report. “The largest of the hangars can accommodate the largest planes in the PLAAF fleet—the Y-20 and Il-76 transport planes, Il-78 refueling tanker and KJ-2000 surveillance aircraft.”
I. Am. Shocked. Shocked! I tell you.
bobbymike said:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/09/china-launches-a-stealth-invasion-in-the-south-china-sea.html
Years ago I read a hypothetical argument (I believe it was just after the Cold War and the break up of the USSR) that asked what would the world do if China ordered 250 million civilians to simply walk north and settle in the resource rich but largely empty region of eastern Russia?
bobbymike said:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/09/china-launches-a-stealth-invasion-in-the-south-china-sea.html
Years ago I read a hypothetical argument (I believe it was just after the Cold War and the break up of the USSR) that asked what would the world do if China ordered 250 million civilians to simply walk north and settle in the resource rich but largely empty region of eastern Russia?
TsrJoe said:as a counterpoint, has anyone actually thought through possible reasons why China is building airstrips in the South China Sea ?
The answer I guess if you were sitting in Beijing would be glaringly obvious. The United States could be perceived as encircling China with a network of bases, with ballistic missiles, battle groups, nuclear armed bombers.
Agree completely, the US had really not changed its posture vis-a-vis China until - other than moving in the direction of increased economic/military cooperation - until recent events. Yes there has been movements in policies and how good the relationship actually was based on certain events but the direction as a whole was to accommodate "China's rise". Heck I think Bill Clinton even used that phrase.sferrin said:TsrJoe said:as a counterpoint, has anyone actually thought through possible reasons why China is building airstrips in the South China Sea ?
The answer I guess if you were sitting in Beijing would be glaringly obvious. The United States could be perceived as encircling China with a network of bases, with ballistic missiles, battle groups, nuclear armed bombers.
Sure, if one were paranoid. Those US bases have been there for over half a century, and in fact there are fewer today than there have been in the past. And what has the US done to China? Nothing. We've not tried to take any of their territory. When things were far more lop-sided we lived and let live. Yes, we support our allies, and if we respond to China's attempts to intimidate them China has nobody to blame but themselves. So no, some made up US boogie-man does not justify China's behavior. The reason China is building those bases is to make it easier to intimidate it's neighbors when it decides to take what doesn't belong to it, and to attack them if they try to fight back. Everything they've done to this point supports that assessment.
TsrJoe said:as a counterpoint, has anyone actually thought through possible reasons why China is building airstrips in the South China Sea ?
The answer I guess if you were sitting in Beijing would be glaringly obvious. The United States could be perceived as encircling China with a network of bases, with ballistic missiles, battle groups, nuclear armed bombers. This arc extends from Australia to the islands of the Pacific, the Marianas and the Marshalls and Guam, to the Philippines, Thailand, Okinawa, Korea, and across Eurasia to Afghanistan and India.
In 2015 the US. and Australia staged 'Tasman Sabre', the biggest single air-sea military exercise in recent years. Its aim was to rehearse an air-sea battle plan, blocking sea lanes, such as the Strait of Malacca and the Lombok Strait, that cut off China's access to oil, gas and other vital raw materials from the Middle East and Africa
seldom a day passes when China is not elevated to the status of a 'threat'. China's building of airstrips in the Spratly Islands was initially a dispute between the Philippines and the PRC. prior to the Pentagon's 'freedom of navigation' campaign, in reality the freedom for US. warships to patrol and dominate the coastal waters of China. Try to imagine the American reaction if Chinese warships did the same off the coast of California (shades of 1962 perhaps ?)
in no way should it be perceived I have any issue with either state, its just interesting to at times step back and take a look at the continuity of the 'great game'
cheers, Joe
It's called Realpolitik - perceiving international politics as they are, not as they should be. It doesn't mean you have to agree with what you see.NeilChapman said:And it would be a bullshit argument Joe.
Arjen said:It's called Realpolitik - perceiving international politics as they are, not as they should be. It doesn't mean you have to agree with what you see.NeilChapman said:And it would be a bullshit argument Joe.
Careful with that B-word.
Highly unlikely.NeilChapman said:The PRC may encourage the N. Koreans to "assist" them by opening another front which would be devastating for the Koreans.