China Projecting Power in South and East China Seas

[bobbymike]

http://gcaptain.com/china-is-hungry-its-oceans-are-empty/

China just needs some Ocean "Lebensraum"

 

[sferrin]

http://gcaptain.com/china-is-hungry-its-oceans-are-empty/

China just needs some Ocean "Lebensraum"

Yeah, that's the Arctic Ocean according to them. (In addition to the South China Sea they outright say is theirs.)

 

[NeilChapman]

This is interesting...

http://www.update.ph/2016/08/all-3-us-global-strike-command-bombers-conduct-ops-in-wps-northeast-asia/8641


“History was made,” the United States Air Force said after all three of its Global Strike Command’s strategic power projection bombers – the B-52 Stratofortress, B-1B Lancer, and B-2 Spirit – conducted their first ever integrated bomber operation in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region August 17.

According to US Air Force, in the past all the three bombers were independently deployed to US Pacific Command’s area of responsibility, however, this was the first that all three “flew a formation pass over Andersen Air Force Base [in Guam], dispersed and then simultaneously conducted operations in the South China Sea and Northeast Asia.”

“This mission demonstrated the U.S. commitment to supporting global security and our ability to launch a credible strategic defense force,” said US Air Force 36th Wing commander Brig. Gen. Douglas Cox.

---

While at the same time the PRC military is printing this...

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/pla-daily-commentary/2016-08/12/content_7204559.htm
"
Rear admiral: U.S. B-1 strategic bomber in South China Sea no worry

...

Yin Zhuo, director of the Expert Consultation Committee of the Chinese PLA Navy, said in an interview with CCTV's Asia Today that the U.S. is just maintaining military pressure on China and its strategic bomber is not China's biggest concern as a combat approach.

...

The U.S. military last deployed B-1 in Guam in 2006. Since then B-2 and B-52 were the main strategic deterrence there. The B-1 bombers deployed this time are to replace a batch of B-52. CNN reported that B-1 bombers deployed in Guam will be able to fly directly to the South China Sea. More importantly, B-1B boasts better penetration capability than long-distance bomber B-52 at very low altitude.

Yin Zhuo said there is a way to counter B-1's entry into the South China Sea.

As a supersonic strategic bomber, its stealth performance isn't very good and the engine has conspicuous infrared features, so B-1 can only be used after the U.S. has secured the command of the air, before that, it dares not deploy large bombers like B-1 and B-52 to the battlefield.

The US can send B-1 to patrol and fly over the South China Sea in peacetime to flex muscles, but once a war broke out, B-2 instead of B-1 would be the first choice of weapon. In sum, U.S. strategic bomber isn't China's biggest concern as a combat approach.
"
---

Notable that there is no mention of the B-52's and B-2's even though the B-2 deployment was reported back on the 9th.

 

[sferrin]

"As a supersonic strategic bomber, its stealth performance isn't very good and the engine has conspicuous infrared features, so B-1 can only be used after the U.S. has secured the command of the air, before that, it dares not deploy large bombers like B-1 and B-52 to the battlefield."

Guess he forgot about those 24 JASSM-ERs. Hope they outfit the B-1B so it can carry a hoard of SDBs.

 

[sferrin]

And those little islands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdzJWciha4A

 

[bobbymike]

And those little islands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdzJWciha4A

And X 15 = 1200 just B-2s now add about 70 B-1s amd B-52s who start with hundreds of CALCMs and JASSMs plus a few hundred SLCMs from the SSGNs makes for a bad day in the SCS.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Beijing mustn’t undermine code of conduct for South China Sea (The Yomiuri Shimbun)

 

[VH]

"As a supersonic strategic bomber, its stealth performance isn't very good and the engine has conspicuous infrared features, so B-1 can only be used after the U.S. has secured the command of the air, before that, it dares not deploy large bombers like B-1 and B-52 to the battlefield.".......Admiral Yin Zhuo

I guess the good admiral forgets that these Gator navy carriers fly the F-35B off their decks. Coupled with offboard AWACS and ASW assets they present a force to be reckoned with.

 

[NeilChapman]

"As a supersonic strategic bomber, its stealth performance isn't very good and the engine has conspicuous infrared features, so B-1 can only be used after the U.S. has secured the command of the air, before that, it dares not deploy large bombers like B-1 and B-52 to the battlefield.".......Admiral Yin Zhuo

I guess the good admiral forgets that these Gator navy carriers fly the F-35B off their decks. Coupled with offboard AWACS and ASW assets they present a force to be reckoned with.

Well... not quite yet...

No Marine deployments until 2018, correct?

 

[Grey Havoc]

"As a supersonic strategic bomber, its stealth performance isn't very good and the engine has conspicuous infrared features, so B-1 can only be used after the U.S. has secured the command of the air, before that, it dares not deploy large bombers like B-1 and B-52 to the battlefield.".......Admiral Yin Zhuo

I guess the good admiral forgets that these Gator navy carriers fly the F-35B off their decks. Coupled with offboard AWACS and ASW assets they present a force to be reckoned with.

Well... not quite yet...

No Marine deployments until 2018, correct?

Also, the PRC and it's armed forces just don't seem to be impressed by the F-35 family overall.

 

[VH]

Well... not quite yet...

No Marine deployments until 2018, correct?

According to the Navy times the deployment will start in 2017
https://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/04/28/f-35b-deploy-2017-marines-scott-swift/83659104/

 

[sferrin]

Also, the PRC and it's armed forces just don't seem to be impressed by the F-35 family overall.

That doesn't really jive considering how much they've tried to steal from it, and how many F-35 features they've implemented on the J-20.

 

[VH]

Also, the PRC and it's armed forces just don't seem to be impressed by the F-35 family overall.

That doesn't really jive considering how much they've tried to steal from it, and how many F-35 features they've implemented on the J-20.

Agreed. The PLAN simply doesn't know enough to know what they don't know about the F-35 and its networked fighting ability. There is a current debate on the Chinese military boards about how China may have copied the shapes associated with 5th generation aircraft but have not or are unable to copy the guts of 5th generation methods and strategies of fighting here in the early 21th century.

 

[NeilChapman]

Well... not quite yet...

No Marine deployments until 2018, correct?

According to the Navy times the deployment will start in 2017
https://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/04/28/f-35b-deploy-2017-marines-scott-swift/83659104/

Of course... I was thinking next year and wrote 2018. Oops!

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/08/21/national/china-hinted-at-military-action-if-japan-sends-sdf-to-south-china-sea/

 

[sferrin]

"Peaceful Rise"

 

[VH]

Regarding how the Chinese regard the F-35, it appears that they like it so much that they are trying to make something like it

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2015-news/may-2015-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/2723-chinese-aerospace-industry-started-research-on-a-stovl-naval-jet.html

 

[NeilChapman]

Regarding how the Chinese regard the F-35, it appears that they like it so much that they are trying to make something like it

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2015-news/may-2015-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/2723-chinese-aerospace-industry-started-research-on-a-stovl-naval-jet.html

"Actually, in the foreseeable future, I don't see a high probability of China's involvement in a war far from its shores. Being dragged into limited amphibious conflicts in or near our territorial waters would be more likely."


Fancy that... dragged

It's like the obnoxious guy at the bar complaining about the bouncers. "I wasn't doin' nothin'. Minding my own business when these two fellers just came up and jumped me for no reason! Yep, they dragged me into a fight."

 

[sferrin]

No kidding. Like the criminal who busts into somebody's house, gets shot for his trouble, and then sues the victims. More of their BS:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/176384/china-confirms%2C-justifies-adiz-incursions-by-military-jets.html

"Beijing-based military expert Song Zhongping said Japan and South Korea reacted because China picked a sensitive location.

Song said China was trying to use the bomber jets to tell South Korea that apart from launching missiles from China's territory, China can also send bombers with cruise missiles to airspace near South Korea, so the THAAD cannot protect South Korea at all.

An anonymous Chinese military expert told the Global Times that the Chinese military was doing the right thing if Japan and South Korea believe it was sending a strong signal, because the negative behavior of Japan and South Korea is harming their relations with China.

He said that the dispute with Japan in the East China Sea and the THAAD issue affect China's national security, and that the fly-by is the Chinese military's duty, "so if we have power we should show it to countries which threaten our security." "

Pretty sure Patriot could easily deal with bombers or cruise missiles. :

 

[NeilChapman]

This might offer some context.

The PLA’s Latest Strategic Thinking on the Three Warfares

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=45723&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=25&cHash=4e31c6f4984e8acc1500eb6182cad00d#.V8LAxGVvTqj

 

[bobbymike]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-military-gears-missile-warfare-us-17530

 

[sferrin]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-military-gears-missile-warfare-us-17530

Consider that when they grab up Taiwan (if they have to fight to take it) they'll be able to pull off a Desert Storm-style attack without even having to use planes. They have MLRS systems that could do it for them. The distance from China to Taiwan is well inside their range. Think of using a relatively cheap heavy truck to deliver a dozen JDAMs instead of an F-15E. Now consider how many of those trucks you could buy for the price of an F-15E. It will be (in effect) raining JDAMS until everything of military value is destroyed, or Taiwan has surrendered. That's what an attack against Taiwan would look like (before the amphibious landings).

 

[bobbymike]

Shot

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2016/07/beijing-announces-plans-break-international-law-south-china-sea/129996/

Chaser

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/09/duterte-shakes-relations-us-shores-them-china/131255/?oref=d-river

 

[fredymac]

A little off topic but with implications. Neither surprised nor bothered except for how it manifests in other behavior.

Obama treatment at G20 meeting in China
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/09/04/obama-dissed-g20-denied-red-carpet-arrival-delegation-shouted-harassed/

Obama arrival at G20 summit (rear stairway, no red carpet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHRc-PAB7U&feature=youtu.be

How everyone else was treated (Brazilian PM arrival)

 

[GTX]

A little off topic but with implications. Neither surprised nor bothered except for how it manifests in other behavior.

Obama treatment at G20 meeting in China
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/09/04/obama-dissed-g20-denied-red-carpet-arrival-delegation-shouted-harassed/

Obama arrival at G20 summit (rear stairway, no red carpet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHRc-PAB7U&feature=youtu.be

How everyone else was treated (Brazilian PM arrival)

People wanting to get offended over nothing... :

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/09/duterte-shakes-relations-us-shores-them-china/131255/?oref=d-river

I wouldn't be surprised if Duterte is bitterly regretting that approach now: Philippines worried, says more Chinese boats spotted at disputed shoal (Reuters)

 

[fredymac]

A little off topic but with implications. Neither surprised nor bothered except for how it manifests in other behavior.

Obama treatment at G20 meeting in China
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/09/04/obama-dissed-g20-denied-red-carpet-arrival-delegation-shouted-harassed/

Obama arrival at G20 summit (rear stairway, no red carpet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHRc-PAB7U&feature=youtu.be

How everyone else was treated (Brazilian PM arrival)

People wanting to get offended over nothing... :

I doubt this is a case of "nothing". Withholding official protocol is hard to ignore when a head of state visits another country. Try flipping the situation and have the Chinese Premier land in the US and being forced to exit through the utility stairway at the rear of the plane with no diplomatic courtesy. Would that be "nothing"? You will notice that China did not try this with the PM of Japan because it would have been seen as an affront. I would bet every other country took note of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IZ-iFb0X8c

 

[Rickshaw]

A little off topic but with implications. Neither surprised nor bothered except for how it manifests in other behavior.

Obama treatment at G20 meeting in China
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/09/04/obama-dissed-g20-denied-red-carpet-arrival-delegation-shouted-harassed/

Obama arrival at G20 summit (rear stairway, no red carpet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sHRc-PAB7U&feature=youtu.be

How everyone else was treated (Brazilian PM arrival)

People wanting to get offended over nothing... :

Americans are often very touchy about Protocol. They get easily offended if they don't get the respect they feel they deserve. Perhaps they need to realise they get the respect they deserve from an equal power?

 

[VH]

China is getting too big for their britches

 

[VH]

China establishes naval base on the horn of Africa. Stay tuned.

http://www.eastpendulum.com/djibouti-1ere-base-militaire-outre-mer-chine

In January 2016, the Djiboutian start seeing Chinese flags floated above the buildings still under construction in Obock, a coastal town about 44km north of Djibouti, the capital.

A Chinese office building under construction in Obock
A CHINESE OFFICE BUILDING UNDER CONSTRUCTION IN OBOCK
Chinese military have established security stations around a land of 90 acres, about 0,36km². A new pier and a container terminal is still under construction.

The spokesmen of the Chinese Defense Ministry confirmed in a press conference on February 25, 2016 , that the construction of "logistical support infrastructure" began to Djibouti.

This first military base overseas from China to Djibouti is an important first pivot of the country for its "One Belt One Road" strategy (New Silk Road Economic Belt, 21st Century Maritime Silk Road).

The work should be completed by 2017 according to observers.

 

[sferrin]

Looks like they're going to ignore, well, everybody, and build another "island" military base near Scarborough Shoal. It's called, "enjoying the fruits of weakness."

http://atimes.com/2016/09/china-deploys-construction-vessels-at-disputed-reef-as-obama-meets-xi/

 

[VH]

While Obama and company have been fighting to allow the transgendered into the military the Chinese have been working 24 / 7 on projecting power in the South China sea and beyond. Talk about having your priorities in a state of confusion there it is.

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/chinas-maritime-militia-time-to-call-them-out

 

[sferrin]

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/chinas-maritime-militia-time-to-call-them-out

Flash mobs at sea. Start shooting at them and China whines to all the right people in the West and cows them into submission. Being called an "aggressor" (even if it's the other guy causing the problems) is right up there with being called a racist after all. Look for China to play this game as hard and as frequently as possible to see just what it will take for the West to start shooting them.

 

[kaiserd]

While Obama and company have been fighting to allow the transgendered into the military the Chinese have been working 24 / 7 on projecting power in the South China sea and beyond. Talk about having your priorities in a state of confusion there it is.

Because it's clearly an either/or situation.
You should be embarrassed.

 

[VH]

Why? Please explain.

 

[NeilChapman]

Why? Please explain.

Perhaps kaiserd is inferring that the head of the Executive branch of the US Federal government can multitask. It's been proven that he can ignore more than one problem at a time.

---
JCS - Sir, we've been flying our airframes into the ground for the last 15 years. We need some relief.
We've got ideas about the SCS and ECS situations.
We'd also like to to discuss the plans for the Black Sea and the recent events in the Baltic Sea.
There has been additional movement in Eastern Ukraine that you need to be briefed on as well.
We'd like to provide you with a amended briefing on the military implications of our Syrian policy.
PBO - Ah yeah. About that. We need to change the policy so DoD becomes the largest single provider of transgender operations. I'll be on the golf course.
JCS - ??? Yes sir.
---

Oh wait. That's not fair. I just remembered. PBO doesn't talk to his generals.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Prospect of Philippine Thaw Slows China’s Plans in South China Sea (New York Times, registration may be required.)

That assertion in the title may prove to be optimistic...

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37469983

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Consider that when they grab up Taiwan (if they have to fight to take it) they'll be able to pull off a Desert Storm-style attack without even having to use planes. They have MLRS systems that could do it for them. The distance from China to Taiwan is well inside their range. Think of using a relatively cheap heavy truck to deliver a dozen JDAMs instead of an F-15E. Now consider how many of those trucks you could buy for the price of an F-15E. It will be (in effect) raining JDAMS until everything of military value is destroyed, or Taiwan has surrendered. That's what an attack against Taiwan would look like (before the amphibious landings).

So Taiwan will be fine then and the PLA will get Diepped trying to cross the beach. The strategic level air attacks against Iraq in 1991 achieved almost nothing of direct military value. They made for great TV, harrased a lot of city dwellers and smashed the Iraqi military's real estate portfolio. But achieved squat against the dispersed and hardened Iraqi military C2 and logistic capability. It was only the tactical air strikes against Iraqi ground forces that made a difference. You can't do that by typing in grid squares into a rocket launching system. Unless you want to kill a lot of trees and move a lot of dirt. Which to clarify by nation state standards is actually a very small number of trees knocked down and a very small acerage cratered.