Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter

[F-2]

Are we sure that's not the cockpit of the Jf-17 block 3 version ?

The J-10C cockpit layout seems to be a bit different.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1336647965813796865

View: https://x.com/stoa1984/status/1336647965813796865

These are J-10B not C. The WAR looking HUD I’m fairly sure is B only. The bottom left one is from a tv show.

 

[Ozair]

Cockpit photo leaked.

View attachment 739585

Best part of this photo is the mirror trim... Looks like something he accessorised via Aliexpress or Temu

 

[siegecrossbow]

Over the Pyramids.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_0sBY0l2c


Soon to participate in the first ever Egyptian Air Show.

Photo ops with ancient monument:

View: https://youtu.be/uFtnB7jxhBg?si=OA5JwLoDESSrJicA

 

[GTX]

Egypt to replace F-16s with China’s fighter jets...reportedly

 

[Archibald]

Geez, this will not help the baroque fighter inventory of the Egyptian Air Force. Throwing another country in the lot... they only missed Chinese combat aircraft, now that's repaired.

 

[TomcatViP]

Hard to believe that their pilots flying their main fighter jets are gonna convert at once from English language to hCinese and retrain themselves at the Chinese red Flag... That´s a jump even taller than Cheops would have dreamed.

 

[F-2]

Geez, this will not help the baroque fighter inventory of the Egyptian Air Force. Throwing another country in the lot... they only missed Chinese combat aircraft, now that's repaired.

I half believe whoever does procurement for the Egyptian Air Force is a member of this site.

 

[siegecrossbow]

At this point they’ve only signed an agreement pursuing collaboration in advanced fighter development. We don’t know which one is involved (J-10C or FC-31/J-35) and whether it would amount to anything in the future.

View: https://youtu.be/QuUNuHiCVhs?si=E1rLDmo4l0iyGCSK

Hard to believe that their pilots flying their main fighter jets are gonna convert at once from English language to hCinese and retrain themselves at the Chinese red Flag... That´s a jump even taller than Cheops would have dreamed.

PAF version definitely uses English language in interface. Comes with voice control too so I assume it could also accommodate different accents.

 

[TomcatViP]

Correct. That escaped me. Thanks.
Still we are not here in a similar case with a full swap of teh main fighter of an AF..
PAF kept their F-16.

 

[Deino]

At this point they’ve only signed an agreement pursuing collaboration in advanced fighter development. We don’t know which one is involved (J-10C or FC-31/J-35) and whether it would amount to anything in the future.

View: https://youtu.be/QuUNuHiCVhs?si=E1rLDmo4l0iyGCSK




PAF version definitely uses English language in interface. Comes with voice control too so I assume it could also accommodate different accents.

Well, in fact it would be interesting to know what's the true wording of this statement ... even more so what is meant with "collaboration in advanced fighter development", which is IMO totally made up my the typical suspects and their accompanying fan-boy cheerleaders in the social media!

And so in fact we know only they "signed an agreement pursuing collaboration in advanced fighter development", but the media reports thsi already as a given fact as if Egypt is in negotiations for at least 12 J-20, those J-10CEs will be manufactured locally in Egypt with full ToT and also the same is for the upcoming J-31 production!

The biggest problem is, neither MilitaryWatchMagazine nor the DefenceBlog and especially not BulgarianMilitary are credible and trustworthy sites ... at best they post almost everything with the touch of being "confirmed", typical click-bait sites!

And so for this there is one original source (A) in arabic of at best a vague content, which is quoted by source B, re-reported by source C in a made-up form, quoted by D as "we heard from reliable sources" and so on ... finally to be repeated again by source A claiming we already knew it!!

 

[NMaude]

PAF version definitely uses English language in interface. Comes with voice control too so I assume it could also accommodate different accents.

That's a good as apparently Mandarin is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, languages to learn.

 

[totoro]

Some of the earliest f16s egypt has are now 40 to 42 years old. They are bound to get replaced by something very soon.
Mig29 and rafales seem to have replaced the myriad of older j7/mirage jets.
If anything, the su35 deal was possibly there to replace the earliest f16.

In addition to f16, which will need replacment in huge numbers going forward, 40 airframes asap and 40 more by the end of the decade, there might be an issue with mig29.

Sure they are new but reportedly the influx of replacment parts from russia has been an issue due to ongoing caatsa pressure. Its plausible that egypt might decide to divest itself of the migs at some point, if the alleged maintenance woes are true.

 

[NMaude]

Some of the earliest f16s egypt has are now 40 to 42 years old. They are bound to get replaced by something very soon.

If Egypt is going to replace its F-16s in the near future I wonder if the US or another Western European country will buy them on the cheap and refurbish them before donating them to Ukraine?

 

[helmutkohl]

Some of the earliest f16s egypt has are now 40 to 42 years old. They are bound to get replaced by something very soon.
Mig29 and rafales seem to have replaced the myriad of older j7/mirage jets.
If anything, the su35 deal was possibly there to replace the earliest f16.

In addition to f16, which will need replacment in huge numbers going forward, 40 airframes asap and 40 more by the end of the decade, there might be an issue with mig29.

Sure they are new but reportedly the influx of replacment parts from russia has been an issue due to ongoing caatsa pressure. Its plausible that egypt might decide to divest itself of the migs at some point, if the alleged maintenance woes are true.

for logistics sake, might be best if Egypt consolidates around the Rafale and the J-10C
the F-16s and Mirage-2000s will need to be retired as you stated, due to their age
MiG-29s have issues with the sanctions and it seems they are unhappy with it, perhaps they could find a market for it somewhere

 

[TomcatViP]

IMOHO this J-10 fray is just there to put pressure to get F-35. I can´t see this happening unless they come largely financed by China.
Again, why would you switch over to an entirely new design philosophy and logistic for something that an upgraded F-16 can largely outmatch?

 

[Ali_Baba]

IMOHO this J-10 fray is just there to put pressure to get F-35. I can´t see this happening unless they come largely financed by China.
Again, why would you switch over to an entirely new design philosophy and logistic for something that an upgraded F-16 can largely outmatch?

It does feel like Egypt is playing footsie with the Chinese to try and make the americans pay attention and given them what they want.

 

[siegecrossbow]

IMOHO this J-10 fray is just there to put pressure to get F-35. I can´t see this happening unless they come largely financed by China.
Again, why would you switch over to an entirely new design philosophy and logistic for something that an upgraded F-16 can largely outmatch?

Main issue is that Egyptian F-16 can’t fire AIM-120. I doubt that the U.S. will sell them F-35. If they can even get AIM-120B as a concession from this it will be a win.

 

[TomcatViP]

Agreed.

That or Meteor missiles for their Raf.

 

[totoro]

why would you switch over to an entirely new design ... that an upgraded F-16 can largely outmatch?

When it comes to air to air capabilities, that's at the very least highly debatable.

 

[TsrJoe]

Evidence, otherwise its all just 'west is better', 'China bad' speculative bs.

 

[F-2]

As I gather radar wise the J-10B and C are much more comparable to the F-16 block 60 with its liquid cooled radar then the air cooled block 70. I can’t speak for the fancy AESA algorithms though which I know the block 70 is very much like the F-35 in that regard.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Some cool shots from a PAF promotional film.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

China, Russia pitch defense hardware to MENA at the first Egypt airshow - Breaking Defense

“China is the real star of this show, as it’s showcasing its domestically-produced J-10 fighter aircraft (which Egypt is in discussions to purchase)," Norman Ricklefs, CEO of geopolitical consultancy firm NAMEA Group, told Breaking Defense.

breakingdefense.com

I wonder what the implicatiom would be in terms of US military aid (FMF, etc.) to Egypt.

 

[F-2]

China, Russia pitch defense hardware to MENA at the first Egypt airshow - Breaking Defense

“China is the real star of this show, as it’s showcasing its domestically-produced J-10 fighter aircraft (which Egypt is in discussions to purchase)," Norman Ricklefs, CEO of geopolitical consultancy firm NAMEA Group, told Breaking Defense.

breakingdefense.com

I wonder what the implicatiom would be in terms of US military aid (FMF, etc.) to Egypt.

Of course buddy buy what you want! Your taking them to bright star right?

 

[NMaude]

China, Russia pitch defense hardware to MENA at the first Egypt airshow - Breaking Defense

“China is the real star of this show, as it’s showcasing its domestically-produced J-10 fighter aircraft (which Egypt is in discussions to purchase)," Norman Ricklefs, CEO of geopolitical consultancy firm NAMEA Group, told Breaking Defense.

breakingdefense.com

I wonder what the implicatiom would be in terms of US military aid (FMF, etc.) to Egypt.

Russia and China will be increasingly desperate to sell their military wares as the Russo-Ukrainian war so far has shown that Russia's latest military gear is not the shit hot stuff their propaganda made it out to be (Plus they're desperate to use as much gear they can get their hands on) and most of (If not all) China's military gear is based on upgrade Soviet/Russian equipment.

 

[Deino]

… and most of (If not all) China's military gear is based on upgrade Soviet/Russian equipment.

I think you should do a reality check! What WAS in past-times is no longer valid for a lot - IMO MOST - of the modern stuff and surely neither the J-10C, J-20 or J-35 and its missile armament have any Soviet/Russian genes in it.

 

[TMA1]

Also the notion of what is or isn't effective in the Ukraine war has been so warped beyond recognition that it would be silly to make such bold statements.

 

[GTX]

Egypt Officializes Its Choice of Chinese J-10C Fighters to Replace American F-16s

Egypt Officializes Its Choice of Chinese J-10C Fighters to Replace American F-16s

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[Archibald]

A little thought for the contributors to that Wikipedia page. "Geez folks, another one in the list !"

Egyptian Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TomcatViP]

Is there any Egyptian gov formal announcement? I haven´t seen one yet.

 

[siegecrossbow]

For the last time there has been no formal announcements yet. This is what happens in modern day journalism. Someone writes and article and others quote it until it becomes a mess of giant circle quoting…

 

[TMA1]

They are good fighters and as a sensor platform carrying the export pl-10 and 15 missiles it would cause a lot of geopolitical unrest. Egypt would surely be punished if they made the choice. To what extent either via long term and quiet means or more overt I am not sure. Also China could be brought under the CAATSA umbrella.

From what I am hearing I do not think Egypt is in an economic or geopoliticical position at this time to make such a bold move as buying J-10CE fighters. Also Egypt might be using this potential purchase in order to get their way with other stuff with the west. Using China in such a way is common for a nation like Egypt where in order to survive and thrive they got to be cutthroat and shrewd. I remember hearing Russians and theie fans bitterly talking of this in the context of relations with Turkey. The phrase was "sitting on two chairs at once". Nations like Turkey and Egypt must be this wily as I said earlier. They are in a constant state of juggling the big bullies. I include us in that list as well as Russia and China.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Indeed it is. Both Turkey and Saudi Arabia sent fighter aircraft (F-16C/D and F-15SA, respectively) to the Indus Shield Exercise.

Pakistan Air Force has stated that AVIC didn't place limitations on the J-10CP with regards on which exercise it could join, so there is a very real chance of it joining the Anatolian Eagle and other exercises.

PS attaching a clearer photo that Deino has graciously tagged me with.
View attachment 710042

Indus Shield 2024.

 

[snne]

Indus Shield 2024.

View attachment 745602

I wonder what the TurAF pilots have to say about their experience in flying with and against modern Chinese made aircraft (their last interaction was with J-11As and Su-30MKKs).

I'm aware of Pakistani pilots' statements about how advanced the 4.5th gen J-10C is and how powerful the engine is compared to F-16B50. -I'm just curious about what an airforce like the TurAF whose pilots are too hardcoded into the NATO doctrine would think-

 

[TMA1]

I have not seen such a many varied and sexy display of fighters in years. Had to take a couple of minutes just admiring that image. I think I'm in love this is all a bit tmi...

 

[snne]

I have not seen such a many varied and sexy display of fighters in years. Had to take a couple of minutes just admiring that image. I think I'm in love this is all a bit tmi...

It's just missing the current representatives of the Eurocanard-gang

 

[TMA1]

The typhoon is indeed a vibe. Its the drooping mustache canards for me. I do love the J-10 as well, but looks wise I am partial to the squared intake of the original model.

 

[sferrin]

When it comes to air to air capabilities, that's at the very least highly debatable.

In what way? Late model F-16 has all the sensor goodies, AIM-9X, and AIM-120. (And, if someone wanted to pay for it, could add Meteor or AIM-120D.)

 

[F-2]

In what way? Late model F-16 has all the sensor goodies, AIM-9X, and AIM-120. (And, if someone wanted to pay for it, could add Meteor or AIM-120D.)

Air cooled vs liquid cooled AESA. WVR I’ve heard a fair bit that the F-16 is superior.

Block 60 has a liquid cooled AESA and is probably more comparable to the B/C J-10.

 

[totoro]

In what way? Late model F-16 has all the sensor goodies, AIM-9X, and AIM-120. (And, if someone wanted to pay for it, could add Meteor or AIM-120D.)

My original quote referred to someone suggesting that an upgraded F-16 can largely outmatch a J-10c. And I said it's highly debatable that's true when it comes to air to air capabilities.

Now, before anyone goes any further, terms "largely", "outmatch", "highly debatable" and so on should be defined and agreed upon. Which, in my experience online, is not gonna happen. Different people will still stick to their definitions of various terms.

"Upgraded F-16" is also a stretchy term but basically, in my eyes, it was the best F-16 has to offer right now, in service. So a V model with AIM-120D. (not sure if any Vs are actually hanging D amraams off their wings, but the software has been upgraded to handle them, if I am not mistaken)

There is simply not enough data out there to say that radar on either plane is better. Or that missiles for either plane are better. Or that self protection suites are better. Which leads me to say that it's debatable to say that either F-16 or J-10 can largely outmatch the other in air to air.
Of course, if someone defines "largely outmatch" as "eh, it can get a 10 % better kill rate" then that's on them. Personally, for me, "largely outmatch" means to be better by almost a generation, having like 20 years newer technology. And thus achieve lopsided results in air combat.
Which is why defining terms is crucial before going into any sort of discussion.
But perhaps discussions aren't wise to have here anyway, as it's a J-10 topic, not a plane vs plane topic. So moderators might not welcome such off topic posts.