Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter

[overscan (PaulMM)]

My attempt to scale from the picture of the FC-1 and J-10 together seem to confirm a length of about 16.5m, which is bigger than I expected.

Heh, well, if its confirmed then I was pretty right with my October 2006 calculations

 

[Deino]

Hy guys ... just noticed yesterday ... and my first impression was "uhhh ... not again", but then there are two more pictures, which seem to show some details, which were usually ommitted by a standard Chinese PS-Fan-Boy, like a wide-angle holographic HUD, the formation lights, the MAW's, ...
Another hint that it may be real is the fact that most discussions are relativly calm and even guys (like huitong) who normally tend to be very critic say its real.

[PS-alert ... maybe on]Anyway ... these are supposed to be the first picture of the improved version of the J-10 sometimes called J-10A+, J-10B or even Super-10.

Again, if real it shows some interesting changes to the older version:

1. A longer nose probe (on the prototype with a huge boom).

2. Gray oval shaped radome with a flat underside that leads to a

3. DSI intake.

4. There is a line above the DSI that appears to be a retractable probe.

5. IRST in front of the canopy.

6. The rudder tip is now rounded and taller. Possible ECM change.

7. The two rear ventral fins are extended.

8. The exhaust appears a little different this time (seems maybe the WS-10A).

9. There is a swelling underneath the parachute boom, same swelling appears on the JF-17s. Could be MAWS.

10. the larger holographic HUD as fitted to the J-11B.
[PS-alert ... maybe off]


So, what do You think ?? ???

Deino

 

[Trident]

The sheer number of consistent pictures would indicate that it is real, none of them show any obvious signs of faking either. The line above the intake is likely a 'slime light'.

 

[Deino]

Hmm … I’m still undecided even if I maybe wish it would be real … otherwise it looks too much like all previous fan-arts.
What makes me tend to think its real is the amount of details, which were usually omitted by a standard Chinese PS-Fan-Boy and the fact that all known psed-Fakes were made by a manipulation of more or less well known pictures. Here it is quite different: I don’t know a picture of a yellow, factory fresh machine with another one under tarpaulin in front of it. So if this is a Fake, the one who made it must have access to the formerly unknown real picture and again has to know his business very well.

Deino

 

[Deino]

.... ohhhh, it's getting better !!!

See: http://www.china-defense.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=23&view=findpost&p=104925

Deino


PS: larger ones added.

 

[Trident]

Hm, I think the pics of the machine marked 01 are real, since there are so many, of both sides of the aircraft and all of them match even in small details. Also, if they do turn out to be fakes, at least the guy who did the comparison with the standard J-10 is not the culprit, since he thinks the new version lacks the blade antenna on the spine when infact it's still there (just hard to make out against the dark background in the blurry photo, but easily seen on the close-ups)

Not convinced about the new photo of the unmarked one, however: the intake area looks like it may have been retouched, the radome is different (not slanted back as seen on 01 - phased array radar, possibly F-16E/F-style active, anyone?) and the PL-8 is badly distorted.

 

[Deino]

...
Not convinced about the new photo of the unmarked one, however: the intake area looks like it may have been retouched, the radome is different (not slanted back as seen on 01 - phased array radar, possibly F-16E/F-style active, anyone?) and the PL-8 is badly distorted.

Hmm now its me again, who's leading towards a Fake, as that PL-8 is really strange ... also the nose on this un-numbered aircraft looks different to the no. 01 and the powerplant looks like a regular (open) AL-31FN ! ??

Here's a sketch I made for another comparison, even if not exactly from the same position:

 

[mz]

...
Not convinced about the new photo of the unmarked one, however: the intake area looks like it may have been retouched, the radome is different (not slanted back as seen on 01 - phased array radar, possibly F-16E/F-style active, anyone?) and the PL-8 is badly distorted.

Hmm now its me again, who's leading towards a Fake, as that PL-8 is really strange ... also the nose on this un-numbered aircraft looks different to the no. 01 and the powerplant looks like a regular (open) AL-31FN ! ??

Here's a sketch I made for another comparison, even if not exactly from the same position:

I don't know much, but I assume the nose bottom should be different since the inlet cant is reversed. Different airflow requirements. Also with the engine, isn't it just the case of the nozzle petals in a different position?

 

[Deino]

...
I don't know much, but I assume the nose bottom should be different since the inlet cant is reversed. Different airflow requirements. Also with the engine, isn't it just the case of the nozzle petals in a different position?

Regarding the nozzles You are correct for this comparison ... but I meant on aircraft 01 (see above) the nozzle looks shorter and different in comparison to that un-numbered ac.

Deino ???

 

[Deino]

At least no. 01 seems to be real ... the other machine looks altered !

Deino

 

[gfi88]

Wonder if the engineering efforts will affect the production schedule due the retooling and manufacturing
flows. And I doubt if the air inlet improvements could expand the mission flexibility as versus the electronic systems upgrade like other fighter programs.

 

[Deino]

a new and sligtly different picture, but here the psed changes are more clearly visible:

- the front gear + tow bar is changed
- the PL-8

....

I think this one is cleare a manipulated picture ... but the 01 is real !

Deino ???

 

[fightingirish]

a new and slightly different picture, but here the psed changes are more clearly visible:
- the front gear + tow bar is changed
- the PL-8
....
I think this one is cleare a manipulated picture ... but the 01 is real !
Deino ???

Yep, this picture looks more like that it is PS-manipulated.
See also the new vehicle in the background.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

These three pics are either very well thought out fakes or, more likely, genuine. Not sure about the other pics though.

 

[Deino]

These three pics are either very well thought out fakes or, more likely, genuine. Not sure about the other pics though.

Agreed ... Just to put it together ... IMO the detail shots and -even not good in quality - overall views of aircraft 01 are proof enough, that this is a real aircraft.

Regarding that "un-numbered" aircraft from the clearer picture I'm not sure if this is ...

1. a psed standard J-10A with all/most the changes incorporated

or ...

2. a second airframe with a different fit.


I really don't think that these are the same aircraft as ...

- the MAW's are missing
- the formation/slime light on the tail is missing
- the radome is different (at least on both available pictures)
- the IRST/LR is on 01 larger and grey …
- something "happened" to the front-gear ... as to the PL-8 (IMO)
- it doesn't have that "new" wing pylon clearly visible on 01
- the engine's exhaust / afterburner looks like a standard AL-31FN ... in contrast to the other one in the first picture (even if I would be surprised if CAC would test the WS-10A on a new aircraft !)
- 01 has a "black box" an the rear fuselage (maybe chaff(flare disp.) ... the other one a black dot


So ... let's sit and wait a little bit longer.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Just in preparation for something new ....

Did I miss anything ?? ???

Deino


PS: new tail pictures added (seem to be flying)

 

[GTX]

Just in preparation for something new ....

Did I miss anything ?? ???

Deino


PS: new tail pictures added (seem to be flying)

I sense a new IAPR article!

Regards,

Greg

 

[Deino]

I sense a new IAPR article!

Regards,

Greg

:


PS: ... as I said !

 

[Deino]

A new one ...

 

[Deino]

I think these pictures should persude at least the last doubts !

Deino

 

[Machdiamond]

The Chinese must be proud. It is a very good looking aircraft.
--Luc

 

[Deino]

... and a view from the side !

 

[Deino]

... again two new ones and interesting to see the (new ???) or formerly unknown 6. Prototype of the FC-1.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Hmmm .... I think I'm in love with that bird (but please don't tell it my wife !)

Cheers, Deino

 

[yasotay]

Hmmm .... I think I'm in love with that bird (but please don't tell it my wife !)

Cheers, Deino

Well Deino, it does have some very nice curves...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Two more. Blurry but interesting angles.

 

[Deino]

Some new pictures via Key-Forum:

New J10B images with 3 sides view:

Front:

Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J10bfront.jpg?t=1244426276

Back:

Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J10bback.jpg?t=1244426426

Side:

Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J10bside.jpg?t=1244426469

another J10 out from production line and by passing the J10B:

Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J10bJ10S.jpg?t=1244426557

J7

Image: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J10bJ7.jpg?t=1244426593

Deino

 

[Deino]

Here are some pictures of aircraft no. 1001 reportedly at Datangshan ....

http://www.sonicmodel.com/topicdisplay.asp...TopicID=2689170

and

http://bbs.news.sina.com.cn/tableforum/App...6&tbid=5459



Deino

 

[Deino]

...

 

[Deino]

Two more and slightly new views of the "B" ... and now I'm no longer sure that this "huge" pod/pylon is actually a pylon, but only an integrated ESM-/EW-pod. The attachment points for the inner pylon seem to slightly besides that "thing".

Any comments on that ???

Deino

 

[Deino]

I was just playing around and thinking about a little bit with the details and position of these strange pods on the J-10B.

First of all they seem to be removable … which may explain the very early, clear but slightly psed picture without them.
Then, it seems that they don’t attach to the same station as the large fuel-tank or the inner/middle-wing pylon, which may interfere with both the tank and / or heavy loads … they are mounted IMO right in the middle between both slightly closer to the break of the inverted gull wing (?).

So … what are they ?? I still tend to say they are ECM-pods … but why then on that position so close to the other pylons ?
Maybe telemetry pods only for testing ??? … but IMO we’ve never seem such “telemetry pods” and esp. so huge ones on a Chinese ac before.

Any idea ??

Deino

 

[Deino]

Seems to be ready for the big show on October 1st. !!!!

Deino

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

It looks mighty fine to me....

 

[Deino]

It looks mighty fine to me....

Yeppp ... for me too and here's my most favourite one ... :-*

Deino

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Any specs on the IRST fitted? I think its likely to be a fair bit more advanced than the Su-27's OLS.

 

[Matej]

The same style air intake without the boundary layer separator was shown on the upgraded FC-1 model at Le Bourget 09.

 

[SOC]

Did they send a 2nd J-10 to Datangshan? The one visible in 2009 GE imagery is definitely not 1001, unless they repainted it.

 

[Deino]

Did they send a 2nd J-10 to Datangshan? The one visible in 2009 GE imagery is definitely not 1001, unless they repainted it.

Yepp ... as far as I know the first prototype in its white-blue-red scheme is re-done and one of the J-10S-prototypes.

Deino

 

[SOC]

Did they repaint 1001 in one of the green or grey camo jobs? They've got a FLANKER there now as well.

 

[elmayerle]

Interesting, that new inlet looks like it incorporates similar work to that tested on the JIST testbed and incorporated on the JSF. It does have its useful aspects.